I'm an idiot. - Page 2

[InDaPhunk]

You didn't overstep your bounds. People keeping their mouths shut about RIC is one of the reasons it has continued. In fact, I'd bring it up again and do everything I could to allow that child to have the right to determine what he wants to do with his own body. If we were discussing FGM would you feel you had overstepped your bounds?

Think how you would have felt if they did it and you hadn't said anything.


I think I know why you're feeling that you overstepped your bounds. He's smart, he's a UU minister so surely he would have the insight, foresight, and spiritual introspection to fully analyze that sitch, right? He's a minister, for crying out loud , and therefore enough of a thinking man to determine what should be done in this sitch, and by questioning him you're insulting the person that he is and all of those descriptors.

Well, obviously he deserves to be questioned since he's making an incredibly stupid and wrong decision. And it is stupid and wrong. Your brother is wrong and his choice is not a valid one. Period. All the brainy introspection in the world isn't going to change that. Neither will a bunch of "agonizing" over the choice. If he had to agonize over it that much then maybe he shouldn't be doing it .

I think it's ridic that a UU minister would make this decision and call himself a man of spirituality, but that's just me :. He needs to do some serious study of human rights. He should be ashamed of himself.

[sunnymw]

He's a... minister? Priest?

Quick, someone find that link for the article: "WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY SAYS ABOUT ROUTINE INFANT CIRCUMCISION"... I don't have it bookmarked on the lappy but it was EXCELLENT and might hit close to home for them!

[LavenderMae]

You are not an idiot. Circumcision is what's idiotic. You did a good thing for your nephew, too bad his parents are choosing to do a bad thing to him. It's heartbreaking to know the suffering your nephew will soon experience.

[Juvysen]

I'm totally trying to figure out the "medical necessity" of cutting off the foreskin for recurrent infections... We don't cut off ears that are recurrently infected..... Shouldn't there just be some "here's how to clean your penis" sort of education for guys who are having recurrent infections? Some sort of cream they could put on there? I don't get it. If I was having recurrent yeast infections, they wouldn't sew up my vagina.....

I honestly haven't heard a single arguement for circ-ing that my first thought was OMG! CUT OFF THAT FORESKIN!

[myfairbabies]

I see that you are LDS, is your brother also? Has he read D&C 74? Has he seen a video? There is no way I would allow one of my siblings to circ my nephew without putting up a fight. I will educate first, then plead, and cry, and finally I will have to stop contact for a while to sort me feelings if they actually did it. It will hurt too much. Think about it this way, if they were going to sell your nephew to the highest bidder to rape just once, would you just stand aside and allow it to happen? It is your place, and you should bring it up again. And again.

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

We don't cut off ears that are recurrently infected.....

Shouldn't there just be some "here's how to clean your penis" sort of education for guys who are having recurrent infections?

If I was having recurrent yeast infections, they wouldn't sew up my vagina.....

I honestly haven't heard a single arguement for circ-ing that my first thought was OMG! CUT OFF THAT FORESKIN!

These are things I'd love to be able to say to my brother. At this point, I don't believe I'll convince him. And I think I can be a greater force for good if he doesn't cut me out of his child's life. He was upset I'd brought it up, and very clear that he felt I had overstepped.

[CorasMama]

Sunnymw and notyetamommy,

He's a Unitarian Universalist minister, and not a Christian. I think he's spiritual ethical humanist-ish. And frankly, because of his huge emphasis on ethical living and human rights, I'm surprised at his choice.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by CorasMama

Sunnymw and notyetamommy,

He's a Unitarian Universalist minister, and not a Christian. I think he's spiritual ethical humanist-ish. And frankly, because of his huge emphasis on ethical living and human rights, I'm surprised at his choice.

Yeah, that makes absolutely no sense at all. :

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

I don't believe the 3 or 4 friends having to be circ'd as adults either. There simply aren't that many intact adults around for all these people to know so many.

:

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by laohaire

OTOH I must admit the only guy I know to be intact got circumcised as an adult. I don't know why (I knew him as a teenager and we drifted away after that) but I doubt it was an infection. I think the only complaint he had was that he had problems using condoms (no friction) - and if he went under the knife for that, that's too bad IMHO.

Huh? No friction? : : : I seriously don't understand this one.... Condoms do this weird "hanging" thing after sex with my intact boyfriend due to the anatomy going back to its resting state, but that is the ONLY difference I've noticed about condoms in circ'd vs. intact. (Circ'd vs. intact sex is a different story...)

[Nathan1097]

Quote:
Yeah, on one hand there are so few intact men that the poor intact boy would grow up all alone, with everyone teasing him and no women who would even know what to do with it.

Originally Posted by carriebft

What? there isn't much to do with the foreskin. It's not like a woman needs to manipulate it to get the penis to work. *scratches head*

I found that a little curiosity and a lot of excitement takes care of any "sightreading" that might need doing.

[Mountaingirl3]

Cora's mama,

I think you did the right thing. You don't want to wonder whether they would have left him intact if only you'd really let them know how you feel.

My sister (who is my best friend) circ'd because her dh insisted. While she was pg, I told her everything about circ. No holds barred. It came to shouting and crying. At first, I was really upset and felt like maybe I had damaged the relationship. I dropped the issue when they circ'd anyway (I was devastated, but I can't stop loving my sister).

She recently told me that she deeply regrets circ'ing. I'm so glad that I let her know the full force of my anti-circ information and feeling. At least I know I did my best to stop it and don't have to shoulder the guilt.

Btw, we are members of a UU congregation and so is my sister. Dh (an MD) and I told her that RIC should be illegal because it is the baby's penis. You would think this argument would resonate with a human rights advocate. But we still failed. Sometimes, there is no right thing that if only you said it, they would change their minds. Only time can change their minds, and unfortunately for the baby, there is very little time.

[Daisyuk]

Didn't you know? Human rights only apply to other people's violations.

Hypocrites.

I hope they all burn in hell along with the perverts that encourage them.

[liseux]

I think there's still time for one gentle email. You could tell him you love him & that you won't tak about it in person, but here's some facts...obviously he's torn & he thinks he's doing it for the right reasons, he just needs the right facts.

[SleeplessMommy]

GAHPH!

I know the UU minister mentioned here. (not well enough to call about this, but I do know him) His wife is from a country that does not circ. (As is the pediatrician MIL) They should know better than to do this to their child.

Have you talked to G about this? If you convince her not to do it, her husband will absolutely go along with her decision. Especially since intactness is an important part of the culture of her homeland.

[laohaire]

Yes, my post was sarcastic - hence the imbalance between those so few intact males out there that would make an intact boy's life a living horror of shame and rejection, and at the same times those millions of billions of intact males who have problems with it. Just pointing out one of a number of fallacies in the arguments for pro-circ.

Originally Posted by Nathan1097

Huh? No friction? : : : I seriously don't understand this one.... Condoms do this weird "hanging" thing after sex with my intact boyfriend due to the anatomy going back to its resting state, but that is the ONLY difference I've noticed about condoms in circ'd vs. intact. (Circ'd vs. intact sex is a different story...)

I don't have all the details, that guy was a friend and not a boyfriend so I didn't actually see this in action But he told me that when he had sex without a condom, the foreskin would rub up and down throughout the process and feel very good. And when he had sex with a condom, the condom would hold the foreskin in place and remove that friction. And he felt that he was at more of a disadvantage with a condom than a circ'd guy because he had an extra layer of skin between the condom and the... uh, meatus I guess (I'm not even a regular of this forum so I don't know that much)... and the sensation was quite dulled.

Just tellin' ya what he told me. When I heard he got himself circumcised I thought it was a shame even though I was totally unaware of the anti-RIC movement and didn't really feel one way or another about intact vs. circ. He may have had another reason for the circ, I only mentioned the condom thing since that was the only complaint I ever heard from him about being intact. In any event, knowing a little more now, I feel even more that it was a shame since probably he wasn't given resources to deal with *whatever* his issue was and doctors probably felt like chopping him up was the only sane thing to do.

Sorry to derail the thread, just responding to the responses.

[Daisyuk]

Well he got that completely the wrong way round. When an intact man puts a condom on he's supposed to slide the foreskin back before he does it, and he gets to be exactly like a circumcised male, except, of course, way more sensitive. Yes, he loses the gliding action over the glans, which even without a condom, circumcised men never have at all. What on earth was he doing? Putting it on with his foreskin still forward? I can't think of any other way he'd have an extra layer there.

If that's the case he's got circumcised for nothing, he just didn't know how to put a condom on properly. That's tragic.

[Blue Dragonfly]

Here is a way mainstream site from the Canadian Pediatrics Association.

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

The results suggested that the financial and medical advantages and disadvantages of routine neonatal circumcision cancel each other out, and that personal cultural or religious views, rather than cost or health outcomes, should be the basis for decision making.

Poland10 commented that relatively few medical procedures are routinely recommended for the care of infants and children, and that a good general principle is to withhold the routine application of procedures to large groups unless the benefits clearly far outweigh the risks and costs. Our review of the literature leads us to conclude that, for routine neonatal circumcision, the benefits have not been shown to clearly outweigh the risks and costs.

When information on the medical advantages and disadvantages of neonatal circumcision is presented to parents before they make a decision concerning neonatal circumcision, it results in little change in their decisions.120,121 There is evidence that parents' decision making is based mainly on social, rather than medical, concerns.122 The strongest factor associated with the decision about whether to circumcise a male infant is whether his father was circumcised, and concerns about the attitude of peers and the boy's self-concept are also prominent influencing factors.122 These concerns also need to be discussed during physician counselling of parents. Further information that addresses these concerns is required.

good luck mama