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I think we are saving the world!!! - Page 3

post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by utopia760 View Post
i know by being a sahm i am in control
That sense of control is illusion, really.
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by utopia760 View Post
no matter how much i might complain about all the duties i must do i love what i do and WOULD NEVER change it. I couldent imagin anyone else taking care of my child, if someone else was with my child while i worked their views on things would be instilled into my child and they may not be a realistic view or one that i even want my child to know about. i know by being a sahm i am in control and showing the best i can to my child and to me it is worth every frustration, every poopie diaper, every tantrum, and every single hug!!!
you never know what path life will lead you on. sometimes things happen that you will not be able to control. :
post #43 of 121
Quote:
we show them, the deepest love our true feelings of kindness and simetimes frustration maybe even anger but our kids know that they are loved so much. we teach them what is right and wroung, we teach them life not just how to live in the world but how to live withing themselves, how to believe they are worth something. and we show them they are important.
Plenty of employed parents do all of these things.
post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by utopia760 View Post
i too am very mush a sahm and feel i am doing what is best for my children (most of the time). what we do as sahm's is something noone else could do with our kids. we show them, the deepest love our true feelings of kindness and simetimes frustration maybe even anger but our kids know that they are loved so much. we teach them what is right and wroung, we teach them life not just how to live in the world but how to live withing themselves, how to believe they are worth something. and we show them they are important. sahm's are something many people shreak at however i think it is the most powerful and rewarding job anyone can have, and do. no matter how much i might complain about all the duties i must do i love what i do and WOULD NEVER change it. I couldent imagin anyone else taking care of my child, if someone else was with my child while i worked their views on things would be instilled into my child and they may not be a realistic view or one that i even want my child to know about. i know by being a sahm i am in control and showing the best i can to my child and to me it is worth every frustration, every poopie diaper, every tantrum, and every single hug!!!
I agree with what pp's have said; your concept of control is an illusion. Anyone who thinks they are in control just haven't had their particular illusion broken yet.

And I just don't understand the assmptions made here that WOHM's can't show their kids all of these things that you're talking about.
post #45 of 121
WOHF's, too.
post #46 of 121
i was never saying a mother who works does not get all the satisfactions a sahm gets im just saying how i feel about me staying at home and what i get from it and as for the control part i think you all took it wrong i meant i can decide for my child what i think is best
post #47 of 121
Please forgive me for indulging in a bit of stereotyping.

But as most of my close friends in HS were Korean, of the same status as Cho's family (parents and children were immigrants, but immigrated when the children were young, elementary school age), I think most Koreans from Korea are highly family-oriented (perhaps even too much so, by typical American standards). You'd be VERY hard pressed to name a culture that encourages more giving and unadulterated love and respect to young children, in their most formative years (0-3). Not only that, in general, most of the Korean-born moms I know were SAHMs. Mostly by choice, but also because they didn't have green cards. If they worked it was moonlighting while the kids were asleep or in school.

I would be extremely surprised if Cho was not breastfed. My only exposure to breastfeeding was knowing that my some friends' moms were nursing their younger sibs. (Extended nursing, BTW) Not only that, but the vast majority of them had very involved grandparents, and tight knit families.

So let's not assume that Cho's parents were horrific people. I see this being sniped at in the news and it makes me feel revolted.

I'm willing to bet that Cho's mom was a SAHM in his early childhood. Do you know know how culturally unacceptable it was in that time period (and even to some extent today) to be a working mother of young or even school age children in Korea? So before we go around congratulating ourselves at how different we are, keep in mind that people could just as easily say the opposite.

You can not love someone out of schitzophrenia or true psychotic mental illness. If that were true, there'd be very few people with those impairments in the world. There were a lot of things that failed Cho. Maybe we can count his family among them, but personally I kind of doubt it. It's so easy to put all the blame on the mama though, isn't it.
post #48 of 121
you have a really good point. i never look badly at mothers who work thought. i actully applaud them in a way. i personally would much rather stay at home because i love it
post #49 of 121
I would love to stay at home too - Truly, I'd really enjoy it. But, it's just not feasible for us, for a variety of reasons.

You never know what is happening in someone else's home, in someone else's heart. Parenting is all about adapting to your child's needs and balancing those needs with the needs of the family, right? We're all struggling to get that balance (whether we SAH, WOH, WAH, go to school, FF, BF, co-sleep, CIO, "mainstream" or AP, etc.), and until you've walked a mile in another family' shoes, you should try not to judge.
post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by brookely ash View Post
you never know what path life will lead you on. sometimes things happen that you will not be able to control. :
I think that's the case for everybody though, not just SAHM's. WOHM's aren't in total control either or completely invulnerable due to earning a paycheck. Anyone could lose a spouse, or a job, or a home, or their health. The illusion of "total control" is an illusion for all human beings.

Quote:
You never know what is happening in someone else's home, in someone else's heart. Parenting is all about adapting to your child's needs and balancing those needs with the needs of the family, right? We're all struggling to get that balance (whether we SAH, WOH, WAH, go to school, FF, BF, co-sleep, CIO, "mainstream" or AP, etc.), and until you've walked a mile in another family' shoes, you should try not to judge.
ITA, and I wish some in our society (like Linda Hirshman etc) would also extend SAHM's the same graces! This is the main point any time discussions come up of what women "should" or "shouldn't" do. I believe SAH'ing is best FOR ME, but I know others who would be miserable not working, and more power to them. As long as they put their best effort into parenting and don't use work as a reason to abdicate parenting responsibilities. But then again, some SAHM's use "outside activities" as an excuse to do the same. For an example of a mom who doesn't work but also doesn't parent, see The Nanny Diaries.

I don't have an issue with people who work. I have an issue with any person who has children and then for whatever reason, chooses not to interact with them/raise them decently. So for me it's not really a mommy-wars issue but a parenting issue.
post #51 of 121
Tigerchild -- ITA I personally am so sorry for this family and this mother, whom I'm sure did the best she could with the knowledge she had.


As for the rest, which is the same argument that's gone before here over and over...most of us still have young kids. I wonder what we will say when our kids are grown. I think most of us will have a different perspective and realize that what we do or don't do is only part of the picture, because our shaping of kids goes only so far and our control goes only so far. Generally we all do what we think is best given our circumstances right now, but we never really know what the long-term holds and the long-term is always much less in our control.
post #52 of 121
Tigerchild...I found your post totally refreshing and enlightening. It is so easy to jump on the blame bandwagon because perhaps it somehow reassures us that this could never happen to our children.
Mental illness is what it is...and that is the vicious cycle about it...people with mental illness don't have the ability to get themselves help or stick with it or make sure they take their medication.
I have been completely uncomfortable with the posts who have made flash judgements about the family as i am sure that this is the mentality of most Americans. At this point they have got to the most hated parents and they need to deal with this on top of the fact that their own child was responsible for such a horrendous action. We know nothing of these people.The only thing i do now is that now they are going through a living hell and judgement and blame on them is going to do nothing to heal this situation nor to heal society.
P.S. I know i should not stick my neck out since i am a working mother. Although i do have a daughter with mental health issues and i assure you ...there is nothing i do different with my other 2 children than i do with her. If anything...i devote more time and attention to her because of what she needs. She is who she is and i am doing the best that i can. I agree that SAHMs are saving the world raising children in an environment of love. I am saving the world in my own way ...teaching kids with Special needs and loving my own children at the same.
post #53 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinkisser View Post
. I agree that SAHMs are saving the world raising children in an environment of love. I am saving the world in my own way ...teaching kids with Special needs and loving my own children at the same.
I am really glad to hear that someone is able to appreciate the value of attentive and responsive parenting in its different forms without feeling personally threatened. That was more the point of this post, to celebrate the effects of our loving parenting efforts as SAHM. There was never any intention of putting down other parenting styles. SAHMing is what I do and believe in for me and I wanted to applaud other mommies who SAHM too. However, I absolutely agree that WA/OHP and student parents are valuable as well. I don't have an all or nothing perspective. I jusy believe if you can that SAH with your kids is the best investment you can make in them(assuming that you aren't just AT HOME as I described in a pp.).
post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
You can not love someone out of schitzophrenia or true psychotic mental illness.
No, but you can definitely hate/abuse someone into mental illness. Abuse takes place in all cultures, and abusive/non-abusive is a totally different topic from cultural parenting norms like breastfeeding, work/childcare arrangements, etc. If a young adult is possessed with hatred toward himself and the world, I just find it a bit much to assume that he had a happy, supportive childhood. So sue me.
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimee21972 View Post
if we did NOT feel we were having a positive impact would we be making the sacrfices we are to be home????????
I don't use this kind of decision making. And I imagine I am not alone. Some moms stay home because they want to stay home, not because feel like sah will have a positive impact. I am going to be an attached parent not because I think it will create a certain kind of happy, secure child/adult, but because it is the kind of mom I want to be. I WANT to breastfeed and carry my baby and sleep with my child. Other mothers are tempermentally suited to other kinds of mothering. But this is about me and what kind of mothering suits my personality and temperment.
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
You can not love someone out of schitzophrenia or true psychotic mental illness.
Yes. read stories about him. Even when he was a todler, he was incapable of having a relationship with human beings. It is a tragic and terrible tale, and not a tale whose moral is "no cio" or "be a sahm" or "love your kids more" . . .
post #57 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by babylove2007 View Post
I think that's the case for everybody though, not just SAHM's. WOHM's aren't in total control either or completely invulnerable due to earning a paycheck. Anyone could lose a spouse, or a job, or a home, or their health. The illusion of "total control" is an illusion for all human beings.
absolutely. in no way did i mean to imply ANYONE is in control. wohm, sahm, whatever, we all have experiences to face that are unforseen and often unimaginable.

usually when i have thought to myself that i'm never going to change, or that i will be in control of a certain situation, life reminds me thats not the case. i'm not in control of it and as frustrating as that can be, if i allow myself to be open to possibilities, interesting things can happen.
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
No, but you can definitely hate/abuse someone into mental illness. Abuse takes place in all cultures, and abusive/non-abusive is a totally different topic from cultural parenting norms like breastfeeding, work/childcare arrangements, etc. If a young adult is possessed with hatred toward himself and the world, I just find it a bit much to assume that he had a happy, supportive childhood. So sue me.
I'm not a psychiatric expert but I'm pretty sure the most severe, chemically based mentall illnesses really have relatively little to do with upbringing and as someone already posted somewhere, all the most vicious serial killers, etc over the last century have had very different upbringings. There are some psychiatric issues perhaps rooted in childhood experiences, but from what I know the really, really bad chemically based ones, the kind that make people delusional and all, cannot be affected that much by anything except drugs and specific types of therapy.
post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
Really I think this type of thinking just puts to much pressure on the mother. In some way I think that our children have their personalities "set" before they are born. Of course we as parents can have a tremendous impact on our children by loving and caring for them-yes this is important-but even if a child is given a great deal of love and attention-this is not a guarantee.

Also this person refered to in the op apparently had some mental health issues. Such issues are important to address on an healthcare level-for instance if someone I cared for had diabetes, I wouldn't think to myself "if I love him enough the diabetes will resolve itself." We have to start taking mental illness seriously, it is a disease. Of course a great deal of mothers ( wohm, wahm, sahm,) are parenting their children to the best of their abilities.

So we do what we can, and pray for the best.

hear hear

haven't we moved beyond blaming the mother (never the father, alwasy the mother) for everything that goes wrong??

there were still killers even back in the past when most moms were sahm... only then instead of saying "his mother didn't spend enough time with him" they said "his mama smothered him"

either way it is still "mama's fault"

i say it is rubbish and while good parenting can help a kiddo be happier etc it cannot prevent/cause mental illness

no more blaming moms please!@!
post #60 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by utopia760 View Post
what we do as sahm's is something noone else could do with our kids. we show them, the deepest love our true feelings of kindness and simetimes frustration maybe even anger but our kids know that they are loved so much. we teach them what is right and wroung, we teach them life not just how to live in the world but how to live withing themselves, how to believe they are worth something. and we show them they are important. sahm's are something many people shreak at however i think it is the most powerful and rewarding job anyone can have, and do.
Do you really think ALL sahm's do this for their children? And that all mamas who do this are sahm's?

I have been a sahm and a work/school out of the home mama, and my child's connection to me, and the things she learned from me, did not diminish simply because I was not in the home with her 24/7.

What about children who have single parents and spend time with their fathers for access? Do you think they learn and connect less with their mothers as a result of that? Coz I don't.

Do you think children don't learn and connect with their fathers, if the fathers work out of the home? Coz I think they do.

These "sahm'ing is better" arguments don't make much sense to me.
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