What if I can't get my husband to agree?

[angelachristin]

Hello everyone, I am new to MDC and new to not vaxing...I have one DS, 5 months old, who unfortunately has an ignorant mommy (me) who didn't research before he was born and so he received the hep B at birth, as well as the Pediarix 5-in-1 (DTaP, polio, and hep B) at 2 months, and then the DTaP, polio, and Hib (3 shots) at 4 months. Since then I have done tons of research and I am definitely delaying, maybe not EVER giving him any more, but I don't want him to have anything else until he's well over a year old.

My husband is not agreeing with me. He has a friend who is a ped, and who keeps sending him links to the CDC and pro-vax sites like aap, aafp, and various pediatrics sites claiming no link between vaxes and autism or other damage. I have tried to get him to read the Cave book I have or look at other sites, but he's not big on reading...he doesn't even truly look at the sites his friend sends, but listens instead to this guy's tales of unvaxed children who have been rushed to the hospital near death from this or that...it's really annoying. I have ordered Mary Tocco's DVD "Are Vaccines Safe?" to try and convince him...

My question is, what can happen if I just can't get him on board with me? I'm really scared about this. I don't want my baby to get anything else...I'm terrified of him getting any other vaxes...what can I do to keep him safe from the vaxes if my husband won't agree with me?

Thanks.

[xmasbaby7]

I am sorry you are in this boat. I know a few others who are in this same situation without an annoying ped friend egging him on to be so afraid of these diseases.

I would urge you to consider a delay tactic above anything. Try and get him to agree to delaying until 2 years so that both of you can take the time to reasearch, read, and decide together.

I would also ask your DH not to discuss this with his friend unless you are both present and can both learn and discuss with him. Politely listen to what he says and then research it and fact-check him, then show your husband, and his friend, too, if you want, what you find to contradict or further explain any scare tactic he may throw at you. People here on these boards can help you do that.

Seeming open in this process rather than digging your heals will make this easier. If you get into the dynamic of "it's my way of the highway since I carried and birthed this baby" then the two of you are really in a power struggle rather than a vax decision struggle.

I sympathize since as new parents, the sleep deprivation and total fear we often feel with so much change and new responsibility can shake up the most stable of marriages as it is.

Take a deep breath. Hold your partner's hand through this, and try not to display that mamma bear in you that instictively knows not to vax. Men don't relate to that and it intimidates them.

[ftmomma]

sorry momma...my dh has been in agreement to delay so far (15 months) but he's pretty on the fence and if i said "we are never vaxing" he would probably freak out, so i try not to bring it up. i schedule and attend all of the wbv, i do all the research (everday, could be a part time job).

maybe you can take the info/links that your hubby is receiving from the cdc, aap, etc and really read them and find the contradictions. that is what im trying to do. use the package inserts from the manufacturers, and the cdc pink book that explains the disease, risk factors, treatment options, etc. start with what you will encounter at the 6 mo visit. instead of taking on the whole "vaccine controversy" at one time.

also, while the possible link of vaccines to autism is pretty scary (and probably very real) that doesn't have to be your only reason why you don't want to vaccinate your ity bity baby. if you understand the risks and likelyhood of your child even getting a disease you might realize the risks associated from the vaccine are a lot greater. I just read something from the cdc pink book (vaccine saftey page four) where they said

..."Today vaccine-preventable diseases are at or near record lows. ... At the same time, approximately 15,000 cases of adverse events following vaccination are reported in the US each year... ... parents and providers in the US are more likely to know someone who has experienced an adverse event following immunization than they are to know someone who has experienced a reportable vaccine preventable disease"...

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by ftmomma

..."Today vaccine-preventable diseases are at or near record lows. ... At the same time, approximately 15,000 cases of adverse events following vaccination are reported in the US each year... ... parents and providers in the US are more likely to know someone who has experienced an adverse event following immunization than they are to know someone who has experienced a reportable vaccine preventable disease"...

This is not really a good argument because an uninformed provaxer would just say - well that's because of vaccines.

Besides, VPD's are not at records lows, they're just not officially reported because of misdiagnosis - many of the VPD's can be easily misdiagnosed, particularly rubella and mumps because they are often mild or asymptomatic, even measles can be misdiagnosed as scarlet fever according to the CDC. Most people wouldn't know they had polio because almost all infected are asymptomatic.

There are millions walking around with un/misdiagnosed pertussis alone - so disease are hardly at record lows.

You don't seek, you don't find.

[Emmeline II]

For an even handed treatment of the issue I recommend "Vaccinations, A Thoughfull Parents Guide" by Aviva Romm, and "Naturally Healthy Babies and Children: A Commonsense Guide to Herbal Remedies, Nutrition, and Health" by Aviva Romm for keeping your dc healthy and treating "VPDs".


Manufacter's Inserts:
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

VAERS
You can search the VAERS database for reactions to recommended vaccinations.
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.html

CDC Pink Book:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/pink-text.htm

CDC Ingredients list:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-1.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Another Ingredients list:
http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

Vaccines are Not Mercury-Free:
http://www.*********/a/mercury7.html

Tabled Vax Injuries

Compare # of Reccommended Vaxes, 1983 to 2007:
Over Vaccination?

The Basics of Pediatric Immunizations

AAPS, Vaccines: Public Safety and Personnal Choice
http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbstatement.htm

Graphs:
Graphs of England and Wales Mortality Rates 1838-1978

Disease Pattern Graphs from the 1800s to the Present Day

WIC Eligibility & Vax
"Immunization records and/or an infant/child’s immunization status are in no way tied to the receipt of WIC benefits. "

JUST A LITTLE PRICK

The Dark Truth
The Erosion of Public Trust & Informed Consent through Immunization Harassment, Discrimination and Coercion

VACCINES: WHY FEAR SELLS

Religious Exemptions

The Wexler Decision

To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:
http://www.909shot.com/state-site/state-exemptions.htm
All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).


Some basic questions to ask yourself...

What is the disease?
If my child gets it, what are possible complications?
How likely and how severe are those complications?
What should I do to prevent those complications or to properly support my child through the disease?
What is in the vaccine?
How likely and how severe are the various complications?
Can I treat those complications? If so, how?

Start making a list or packet of articles for each disease and vaccine. This then turns into a super in dept pro/con list. And it takes a lot of fear out of the equation. Use all sorts of sites and books to get your info. Identify the bias and then take that into account. You'll be surprised at how much info you can find from the CDC that (as long as you look at the info and not the conclusions) lean toward not vaxing!

We do not vaccinate and I would go through any amount of hassle, and if I did not have a philo exemption I would lie out my arse, to protect my child from what I have found to be harmful.

Also, you do not have to go to a ped, your child can see a FP or even a chiropractor.
http://www.chiropracticresearch.org/...oeduaction.htm

AAP: Responding to Parental Refusal of Immunizations
http://www.cispimmunize.org/aap/pdf/...fusalofImm.pdf

In July 2007, the medical journal "Pediatrics," found that non-vaccinating parents tend to be married, have college degrees, and higher annual incomes. Non-vaxers tend to be those who have knowledge of and access to vaccines; it is not that they are accidentally not vaccinating or that they cannot afford vaccines.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Handling Vax Criticism

Ozgirls
I think this is a fantastic piece to print out and easy enough for anyone to read -

http://www.avn.org.au/vaccs_10reasons.html

And this article is a real gem on how to handle vax criticism - brilliant..I especially like the idea of asking a series of questions!

http://www.avn.org.au/action_communicate.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For those worried about CPS being called for not vaxing and other non-mainstream practices:

Child Abuse and Neglect Statues
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwi...tate/index.cfm

http://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.c...regarding.html
The Arizona State Court of Appeals has slapped down efforts by Child Protective Services to have a youngster in foster care immunized over a parent's objections....

Potentially more sweeping, the judge said the laws that allow the state to take temporary custody of a child specifically spell out what powers and responsibilities that includes. These range from the right of physical custody and the right to discipline the child to the requirement to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter and medical care. Eckerstrom said anything not on that list remains the right of the biological parent.

Find a Lawyer referral under "Services"
http://www.falseallegation.org/index.shtml

Parents Guide to Dealing With CPS
http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...parents_guide/

Fighting Child Protective Services False Accusations
http://www.fightcps.com/

CPS Watch -- Legal Forms
http://web.archive.org/web/200306021...ms/default.asp

[New Mexico Beach]

Man, that sucks. I don't really have any advice, but the others here will give you some info.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by angelachristin

My question is, what can happen if I just can't get him on board with me? I'm really scared about this. I don't want my baby to get anything else...I'm terrified of him getting any other vaxes...what can I do to keep him safe from the vaxes if my husband won't agree with me?

Thanks.

I would talk to the friend and tell him that should something happen to your child due to getting vaccines, you will hold him personally responsible.

As for your dh, I would really talk to him about delaying until the child is 2 yrs old. Just don't let him go to any wbv with you ever and try to make him see how healthy your child is (from here on).

Should he insist, I would also tell him that if the child should ever have a vaccine reaction, or come down with cancer later on in life, you will blame him.

He will most likely tell you the same in reverse. Take the responsibility. That will show him that you are very confident and take some of the burden off him.

Basically that's what dd did (married to an MD) and little by little he saw how healthy his older, unvaccinated child 3 yo. is and realized that there is no danger to putting it off longer.

Just the other day, he said that neither one of the kids need vaccines except for maybe the Tetanus and Hep B when they are teens. I guess there is time to argue about that...

Slowly educate your dh. Do it with love and patience but be firm in your decision.

Good luck to you and good for you for researching.

[Emmeline II]

Maybe you should show this letter to your dh and tell him if he can get his friend to sign this letter and place a copy in your child's medical record you would consider what he has to say .

http://www.vaclib.org/basic/consent.txt

Consent for Administration of Vaccination

Dear (Physician’s Name):
If you will be administering a vaccination to me, or my child, today, I will need for you to complete the
following consent form. Thank you.

Physician Statement

I, (Physician Name) ______________________ do hereby state that I have advised my patient, (patient or
child’s name) _________________________and/or parent of my patient, (parent’s name)
__________________________that in my professional opinion this patient/child should be given the
vaccination, drug or other (name of vaccination/drug/other) ______________________________.
Manufacturer’s name ____________________________Serial number _______________
Batch Number ______________________.

I have on this (day) __________ (month) ______________ (year) _________________administered this
vaccination/medication/drug AFTER advising the above named patient/parent of minor patient that there
is little or no risk involved with this vaccination/medication/drug therapy or treatment. I hereby do agree
that should this patient/child at anytime suffer or develop any permanent condition deleterious or injurious
to his/her health as a result of this treatment, I will pay for any and all costs involved related to the care
and treatment necessary for this patient/child for the rest of his/her natural life. I further agree that if my
earnings are insufficient to meet these costs, I will sell my home, my business and all material possessions
and put those proceeds towards meeting the expenses of the patient involved.

Date: _____________________________

Signature of responsible physician: ________________________________

Signature of responsible person administering vaccination/medication/drug: ______________________

Occupational Title: ___________________________

Witness: Parent or other: __________

[angelachristin]

THanks for the replies everyone. Last night we talked and I tried what some of you said and told him I just want to delay until 2yo. He was relieved and said, "Oh, because it seemed like from what you were saying that I thought you said he was never getting another one, ever." Which of course IS what I'm saying, but I said, "Oh no, I'm just really concerned that he's had too many already for 5 months old, so would you agree with me to just wait until he's 2 and go from there?" and he seemed agreeable to that.

I want to smack his doctor friend upside the head, and would if he wasn't in TN and we are in Nevada. My DH mentioned to him that we are changing from our ped to a family doc (I picked her bercause she is recommended in our area as non vax friendly--she delayed and selectively vaxed her own kids, although I didn't tell DH that I just said I don't like our current ped's office anymore, which is true) and this guy actually told him, NO, you shouldn't switch to a family doc, you NEED a ped, and if a family doc tells you it's okay to not vax it's because they are in cahoots with special interest groups. Can you believe that? If anything it's the other way around...this guy is just beyond...I can't decide if he's a total liar or just an idiot Dr. Sheep. Either way, I think I am going to email him a copy of that letter, but I'm going to change it a bit because it doesn't mention what he will be responsible for if my child drops dead due to a vax.

[Emmeline II]

*

[xmasbaby7]

I am pleased about this progress for the two of you about being OK with the delay.

This will buy some time to let the issue die down a bit. My other advice is the have your DH go to a "well-baby visit" with this family practioner once you have met her so that your DH sees in his head that she is not some witch doctor. I also hope that your DH's friend forgets the topic.

This ped friend is probably very frustrated personally with the increase in vax resistance and is letting all of his steam out at your dh. He has an axe to grind. There is no winning with him probably. Ideally, your dh will realize that this guy is not in charge of your baby's health but is venting to his friend about a part of the job he hates, in a way.

I hope he loses interest in your beeswax!

[MichelleS]

My husband wanted to vax our first child after hearing stories from his friends, and he agreed to delay. Our DD suffered an extremely negative reaction that required hospitalization, months with an NG feeding tube, and a year of speech therapy.
I told him no more vaccines ever, and our second DD is not vaccinated at all.
At this point, knowing what I know, I would not bow to anyone else's wishes, even my husband.
Wishing you the best.

[angelachristin]

Originally Posted by i'mmykid'$mom

I would ask him in what way would it be to the financial benefit of a family doctor to encourage you not to vax. I believe that the AAP admits setting up the recommended WBV schedule to ensure full vaccination (maybe someone has the link for this). So he gets a co-pay from the parent, visit payment from the insurance, payment for the vaccines, and is he receiving a bonus from anyone to ensure 100% vax rates? Does he allow pharma representatives in his office? Does he accept free pens, clipboards, lunches, trips, etc., from pharma companies? Is he aware that pharma companies are corporate sponsers of the AAP (I think LI has this link)? How does he explain that financial conflict of interest?

That's exactly what I said to my DH!

Like xmasbaby7 said I do think this ped friend has a total axe to grind, my DH even said he said, "I listen to this from parents in my office every day, and as a doctor and a parent and a friend I'm telling you, you have to vaccinate." He is definitely taking out his frustration on my DH...but the thing I wonder about is, does he REALLY believe this crap is not hurting the babies?

MichelleS, if it ever came to it, I think I would take my son and disappear with him in the middle of the night before I would let him be vaccinated again. That is how strong the terror is in my heart that something unbelievably horrible could happen to him if he got another shot. He means everything to me and I would never be able to live with myself if something happened to him and I didn't stop it, knowing everything I know now. But that is not something I will tell my DH right now!

[Emmeline II]

*

[Romana]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Just the other day, he said that neither one of the kids need vaccines except for maybe the Tetanus and Hep B when they are teens. I guess there is time to argue about that...

Sorry to go semi-OT here, but I just have to know - Why on earth does he think Hep B should be a priority? I understand why someone would pull Tetanus out of the pile as one to consider, but Hep B? Has he explained why he feels Hep B would be appropriate?

Maybe I'm just cranky about it because that's the vaccine that (probably, I have no proof) damaged me when I got it as a teen.

Julia
dd 1

[xmasbaby7]

Originally Posted by angelachristin

He is definitely taking out his frustration on my DH...but the thing I wonder about is, does he REALLY believe this crap is not hurting the babies?

I think he feels he has to believe that they do good. If not, what else should he question about his profession, his practice, research he followed, etc. You don't go to medical school to intend to make people sick ar damage them, so the defensiveness factor is sky-high.

Not everyone is willing to accept such a powerful paradigm shift in their lives. Especially since he is probably on the younger side and came into the field after the vax happy 90's added so many new vaxes.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Romana9+2

Sorry to go semi-OT here, but I just have to know - Why on earth does he think Hep B should be a priority? I understand why someone would pull Tetanus out of the pile as one to consider, but Hep B? Has he explained why he feels Hep B would be appropriate?

Maybe I'm just cranky about it because that's the vaccine that (probably, I have no proof) damaged me when I got it as a teen.

Julia
dd 1

Dd and I were just discussing this tonight. She wanted to know all about tetanus. We haven't' discussed Hep B yet. But there is time. The child is only 3 yo.

Anyway, why Hep B? Because he wants his son to play hockey (he plays) and feels that there is a chance he comes in contact with some blood and .... who knows... he is a brainwashed MD. But he just started reading a vaccine book and I think it is an eye opener for him.

It is very hard for MD's to see past their training. All the (cherry picked)studies have been presented as 100% correct. They will not look outside their few sites that they are 'allowed' to use and those are all bought and paid for by big pharma....

I am proud of him that he even 'dared' to open a book that is not written by an MD. Most won't.

[jenn5388]

mine doesn't agree with me either. his arguement is he got all if his and them some (he was in the army) and never had a reaction.. so miranda should be fine. But he doesn't take into Consideration that I haven't had any Vaccines because my brother had reactions.. My sister we are unsure of because my grandmother raised her from the time she was a newborn basically.

Mine told me last week he considers the chickpox shot something we must get because in his words "have you ever seen a child with the chickenpox?!"

*rolls Eyes* I was strangle him everytime i think of him thinking the most important vax is the chicken pox one, and wants to keep giving it to her over and over and over again to make sure she doesn't have it ever. lol He also won't read anything I could show him. He refuses.. So i told him until he reseaches what he wants to inject into our child, he can forget having any say in it.

anyway.. you might be working down a slippery slope here.. I orignally told my DH that i wanted to wait until she was 2 also. lol Then i had to tell him that i read more and decided that i didn't want any.. he wasn't too keen with that. lol good luck!

[Enudely]

[applejuice]

If your husband wants you Dear Child to get all the vaccinations as required, ask him how he will feel if your child is the one in sixty that develops some form of autism which is the current rate in CA.

That does not include the other suspected problems as MS, MD, asthma, allergies, brain damage, etc.

Save your $ and be prepared for a life of physical therapy, tutors, special education, allergists, visits to the specialists.