"I'm a vegetarian, but I eat fish" - Page 5

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by maranapanda

True, that is the definition of vegetarian every where you look. And if you read further, it also includes "types of vegetarians..." Not only in the dictionaries, other online resources


"What are the different types of vegetarians?

* 1) Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian: does not eat meat, fish or fowl. Eats dairy and egg products.
* 2) Ovo Vegetarian: does not eat meat, fish, fowl or dairy products. Eats egg products.
* 3) Lacto Vegetarian: does not eat meat, fish, fowl or eggs. Eats dairy products.
* 4) Vegan: does not eat any animal products including meat, fish, fowl, eggs, dairy, honey, etc. Most vegans do not use any animal products such as silk, leather, wool, etc. as well."
Vegetarian Recource Group


"Main varieties

There are many different practices of vegetarianism. The following table summarizes the practices of various different types of vegetarian diet:
Foods allowed in the main vegetarian diets"
Wikipedia

"Often broken down further into OVO-LACTO, and LACTO. Vegetarians may or may not try and minimize their non food use of animals like vegans."
International Vegetarian Union (IVU)


You can find the same examples of being a vegetarian listed all over the place.

Yes--there are many types of vegetarians. Do any of those types eat fish? Read your definitions. Nope. Fish is ANIMAL FLESH. Vegetarians don't eat it.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

And, yes, I am often specific in my questions--"I'm a vegetarian. Does this contain chicken broth?" But the fish-eating vegetarian phenomenon, in particular, is pretty widespread and while I don't think it's to "blame" for all the misconceptions about vegetarians, I do think it makes things harder for the rest of us. How many times have you said, "I'm a vegetarian" and heard, "But you eat fish, right?" When I became a vegetarian 16 years ago, I never heard this. Now, I hear it all the time.

Maybe...but with the peanut example, I'll say that we hear all sorts of variations of this too. A person we know who is a NURSE suggested that our son could just eat around the peanuts in a dish. "He can have a few right?" I really don't think there is a band of people going around saying they are allergic to peanuts but that they still eat them. I think this just reflects an ignorance on the part of many people to dietary restrictions. The bottom line for me is that I don't want to ingest critters and I don't want my son to die from eating peanuts...so, I'm not going to trust anyone else to get the short labels. It would be nice if everyone did but the stakes are too high to rely on it.

[Roar]

I would love to see some kind of clarification or posting from the moderator about the rules of this forum. Is it a support forum and if so how come there are so many pro meat eating posts. I have zero problem if folks who eat meat post here and want to learn more about vegetarianism or ideas for healthy eating, but the meat is healthier we are supposed to be eating it posts seem out of line.

[HelloKitty]

Originally Posted by Roar

I would love to see some kind of clarification or posting from the moderator about the rules of this forum. Is it a support forum and if so how come there are so many pro meat eating posts. I have zero problem if folks who eat meat post here and want to learn more about vegetarianism or ideas for healthy eating, but the meat is healthier we are supposed to be eating it posts seem out of line.

Ditto that.

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by Roar

Maybe...but with the peanut example, I'll say that we hear all sorts of variations of this too. A person we know who is a NURSE suggested that our son could just eat around the peanuts in a dish. "He can have a few right?" I really don't think there is a band of people going around saying they are allergic to peanuts but that they still eat them. I think this just reflects an ignorance on the part of many people to dietary restrictions. The bottom line for me is that I don't want to ingest critters and I don't want my son to die from eating peanuts...so, I'm not going to trust anyone else to get the short labels. It would be nice if everyone did but the stakes are too high to rely on it.

Yes, I see your point. I think the reason I was dwelling on the whole "ordering in restaurants" thing is because of the sentiment behind it, not the event itself (especially b/c I AM very cautious about how I order when I eat out or go to a wedding or whatever). It's because when I'm served a "vegetarian" dish that contains fish or chicken or whatever, the implication is that those are somehow lesser animals or that it's okay to kill some animals but not others. That's what I think the real message of fish-eating "vegetarianism" is and that's why it bothers me so much. When I say I'm a vegetarian and someone says, "But you eat fish, right?", they are implying that fish don't feel pain, that they are not animals (b/c vegetarians, BY DEFINITION, don't consume animal flesh), that because they're not furry and cute they take on the status of objects, not living creatures.

I'm both shocked and not shocked that a nurse that a nurse suggested your son could just "have a few" peanuts. After all, how many medical professionals have told people that they have to supplement with formula if their milk doesn't come in on day 2, that breastmilk is worthless after a year, etc. etc.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

It's because when I'm served a "vegetarian" dish that contains fish or chicken or whatever, the implication is that those are somehow lesser animals or that it's okay to kill some animals but not others. That's what I think the real message of fish-eating "vegetarianism" is and that's why it bothers me so much. When I say I'm a vegetarian and someone says, "But you eat fish, right?", they are implying that fish don't feel pain, that they are not animals (b/c vegetarians, BY DEFINITION, don't consume animal flesh), that because they're not furry and cute they take on the status of objects, not living creatures.

I believe this hits the nail on the head for me as well. I was thinking about it after the last post regarding people wanting to be part of a club and not truly worrying about food at a restaurant. Neither of those felt right to me. I may not come across that way here, but am pretty tolerant. Dh is omni and cooks meat for himself at home. I do believe that we all have our own paths. I would rather he not eat meat, but I don't harrass him and I don't love him less b/c he does.

I have also gotten the routine down to a 'T' at restaurants where I rarely encounter mistakes. However, I am always astounded my the people who understand that I don't eat dairy or eggs and possibly even why, but who still ask if I eat fish. It does diminish aquatic animals to something lesser than sentient beings. They are no less animals than are my dogs. They also have some amazing personalities as I have seen with my large bala sharks who live in a 72 gallon aquarium in my living room and whom my dds love to feed. They come and nibble the food out of your fingers; there's a definate "pecking order" among the fish, etc. I appreciate them as living beings with the right to live which is, ultimately, what led me to a vegetarian and then vegan lifestyle.

[vgnmama2keller]

Just to add. There is a restaurant callen Ling and Louie's near by and they have a vegetarian section which unless you ask has 1 meal in it with fish broth. Shocked I said, but fish isn't vegetarian. Reply: Oh well we have had countless vegetarians tell us fish broth isn't bad so we added it. WTF

I'm vegan and spoke directly with the owner and he is the one that told me this as he is explaining what they can make vegan or gluten free. Tell ya, didn't make me want to eat there again because I couldn't be 100% sure that the meal I was getting was really going to be vegan by my standards or someone else's.

I appreciate that people take baby steps and are eating less and less animal flesh. That is certainly something to strive for in our world. And I think it is great! But, I don't appreciate it when other people speak for me (vegetarians who say fish broth is okay) because then I don't get taken seriously. It would be very hard for me to go back to that restaurant and speak with the owner and tell him that fish is flesh and so is fish broth because who is to say that he would listen to me as opposed to countless other vegetarians that say fish is vegetarian.

[loraxc]

What I DO want is for the "vegetarian meal" that I'm served at a restaurant, a wedding, a family gathering to not contain animal flesh or its derivatives.

See, but I want this too. I really do. I am very wary of telling people I eat certain fish very occasionally, because they will then assume I'd love to sit down to some nice Chilean seabass, or even a steak. If you don't say "vegetarian," you are in forpeople pushing it, IME. "Vegetarian," even though some people do not get it, is a lot simpler for people to understand and respect than "Sometimes I eat certain fish in certain circumstances."

[beckyand3littlemonsters]

i don't understand it either forgive me if i'm wrong but i thought people were vegetarian because they didn't like the idea of eating a dead animal , am i wrong in my thinking? fish are still animals, liveing creatures being killed for food right?
i'm not actually vegetarian so could be way off, but don't fish have the same right to life as say cows or chickens?

[nonconformnmom]

Originally Posted by beckyand3littlemonsters

i don't understand it either forgive me if i'm wrong but i thought people were vegetarian because they didn't like the idea of eating a dead animal , am i wrong in my thinking? fish are still animals, liveing creatures being killed for food right?
i'm not actually vegetarian so could be way off, but don't fish have the same right to life as say cows or chickens?

People eat a vegetarian diet for a wide range of reasons. Health reasons; environmental; sustainability and world hunger; a desire to avoid handling raw flesh and greasy pans.

I'm an example of someone who prefers a vegetarian diet for a combination of all the reasons above; however, (and I do not wish to offend) I believe that the food chain is the way it is for good reason. Humans happen to be at a certain position on that food chain, of no fault of our own, and there is nothing wrong with killing animals for food, IMO. Death in nature is not pretty; animals of all kinds are pretty much doomed for a painful and horrific death no matter by man's hand or nature's. That's not to say I don't care, I feel for them; but it's just a fact of life (and death).

[HelloKitty]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

animals of all kinds are pretty much doomed for a painful and horrific death no matter by man's hand or nature's.

wow, and i thought i was a pessimist!

we are all doomed to die, this is true, i disagree that all of us will die a painful and horrific death though.... also the lucky ones will not have to spend the time they have alive in horrific and abusive conditions.

[nonconformnmom]

Michael Pollan's book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma" is where I got my pessimism from. Good point about the living conditions. My dh and I eat only eggs that come from "happy chickens", so I really do care.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

Death in nature is not pretty; animals of all kinds are pretty much doomed for a painful and horrific death no matter by man's hand or nature's. That's not to say I don't care, I feel for them; but it's just a fact of life (and death).

But, thousands of hogs crammed into a teeny tiny building isn't something that exists in nature. We created it. It isn't like someone rounded up animals and knocked them over the head instead of letting them get eaten by another animal. In the mass meat production system we have animals are being bred and living short horrific lives for the sole purpose of being eaten. If not for this system these animals simply would not exist in these numbers.

[nonconformnmom]

Yes, Roar, you reminded me that I left off "against factory farming" on my list of reasons for preferring a vegetarian diet, above.

[Shantimama]

Originally Posted by Roar

I would love to see some kind of clarification or posting from the moderator about the rules of this forum. Is it a support forum and if so how come there are so many pro meat eating posts. I have zero problem if folks who eat meat post here and want to learn more about vegetarianism or ideas for healthy eating, but the meat is healthier we are supposed to be eating it posts seem out of line.

Sorry I haven't been able to post more - I am having computer trouble and my ability to stay online long enough to post is limited. I have been receiving report notices - and my computer rudely shuts down nearly every time I click on a link. Sory for the inconvenience this has been causing!

Whether posting to the Vegetarian and Vegan Living forum or the Traditional Foods forum, PLEASE keep on mind that these are support forums, not places for debate on the healthfulness of either approach to eating. If you wish to have a respectful conversation about the merits or limitations of these diets, please post them in the General Nutrition and Good Eating forum, NOT in the support forums that have been created for people.

We are working on creating some guidelines for this forum - until they are ready, please keep the above in mind.

peace,
Shantimama

[summermommy2005]

I was just going to post about this issues. It bugs me when I hear people say they are a vegetarian but they do eat fish. One time when I was asked if I eat fish, I did say does it have a face then I do not eat it.
I wish people that were truly not vegetarians would stop calling themselves vegetarians.

[jadzia's_mommy]

I really don't get why the occasional meat eaters (including the fish eaters!) get so bent out of shape if vegetarians don't like meat eaters being referred to as vegetarian. It has nothing to do with a club. I have yet to get my vegetarian club membership card. But words have meaning, and if you eat meat, you aren't vegetarian. Simple as that. I can call myself the queen of england and it won't make it so. I'm the first one to commend someone for eating fewer animal products, but, as others have already pointed out, it makes it really hard on those of us that don't eat meat at all when this confusion just won't go away.

[Cranberry]

I eat fish sometimes, but I do NOT call myself vegetarian. But as soon as people hear I don't red meat, THEY say, "Oh, you're a vegetarian!" Um, no. But that's what a lot of people think because not eating meat is so FOREIGN to them. :

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by Cranberry

I eat fish sometimes, but I do NOT call myself vegetarian. But as soon as people hear I don't red meat, THEY say, "Oh, you're a vegetarian!" Um, no. But that's what a lot of people think because not eating meat is so FOREIGN to them. :

I eat fish on occasion too, and would never call myself vegetarian. At a birthday party this past weekend, a friend of our who knows we eat some fish, referred to us as vegetarians. Dh and I quickly said, "Oh no, we aren't vegetarians, we eat fish sometimes". Friend went on to say that he knows lots of "vegetarians" who eat fish. Dh and I laughed and said that we don't consider people who eat any animal flesh to be vegetarians. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life! A vegetarian who eats animal!

As for pro-meat eaters posting in this forum... I haven't seen too much of that, but it should not happen at all. Even though I'm not vegetarian, I eat vegetarian usually 6 days/week. I like to hang out here for good recipes and all that. I hope nobody minds that. I fully support all my vegetarian and vegan friends.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Doodlebugsmom

Even though I'm not vegetarian, I eat vegetarian usually 6 days/week. I like to hang out here for good recipes and all that. I hope nobody minds that. I fully support all my vegetarian and vegan friends.

Absolutely not -- we don't require or need that everyone who posts here be fully vegetarian, just that they be supportive of a vegetarian lifestyle. I only have a hard time with people who believe that veg*n diets are inherently unhealthy posting here in that I don't think that they can ever offer truly objective opinions of vegetarian diets or with those who post on this board about how a veg*n diet destroyed their health.