ap/mainstream=big difference - Page 2

[InDaPhunk]

I tend to be judgemental because I like to be right (or at least think that I'm right)....all the time . However, I don't really find this an endearing quality in myself, so whenever I find myself being judgemental- even in my private thoughts- I remind myself that parenting is just about the hardest job in the world and the last thing that we need- especially us moms- is to waste time judging each other for the choices we make and the way we parent. It's hard for me to do sometimes because like I said, I love to be right , but I despise being judged so I try not to do it to others. I'm not going to lie...sometimes it's hard. What can I say, I'm a work in progress .

Don't forget that we sisters gotta stick together . It's The Man that likes to keep us on different teams .

[my3peanuts]

Originally Posted by attachedmamaof3

But you do come across that way....how old are your kids again?? Just asking because sometimes, *gasp* I too, am morethan happy to grab a Barney video so the baby and I can grab a quick 30 min nap...or even*gasp* distract the older kids with TV so I can maintain my sanity..or even read a book for a few minutes. I'm okay with that....see I'm as AP as you get, but I've learned that some things just don't matter in the long run. So, I plan on continuing to lazily/selfishly 'plop' my kids in front of a movie so that I can catch my breath every now and then. And I don't feel bad about it.

And that certianly has nothing to do with the fact that I'm AP.

And the way you compare parenting styles without coming across as judgemental to family/friends is to get over yourself!! You don't know everything yet, neither do I!! Give advice when asked for advice. When someone compliments you, throw in a yes, babies really seem to like the slings or yes, we practice gentle discipline or yes, we breastfeed....don't preach. Don't dictate and above all, no name calling or insinuations. Every parent raises their way they think is best, be aware of that. You're not the only one who thinks they're right. Tread carefully.

I agree with this.

You say you aren't saying your way is better but it's obvious you do think so and that her "mainstream" ways aren't as good. I get so sick of the whole "mainstream" vs. "ap" argument.

And yeah, I'd love to know how old your kids are because one thing I've learned in parenting is don't say, "I would NEVER do ...." because I'll have my foot in my mouth before I know it.

As far as whether or not there are books on "Should an AP mom let her kids watch tv?" I wouldn't know because I wouldn't read them. I do what I feels right in my heart. I don't worry about whether it would be considered AP or mainstream. If I'm doing what I feel is best and right for my children that is what matters. And for me that just so happens to fall more into attachment parenting.

[Kailey's mom]

I'm new to these boards, lots of debates huh....well I'm going off topic a little..just for a quick question, I hope that's ok because I don't want to start a thread for it. What's "mainstream" and what's "ap". I've been told that I was ap, though I couldn't breastfeed: . but my daughter loves the video "babysongs" and it soothes when I need a 15min break to fold laundry etc..We cosleep, I hold my daugher most of the time, we just do what feels natural..I actually didn't know that there were names for different parenting( I need to come out from under my rock)) As for her being well behaved most people say "she's spoiled" she's very picky. She screams and crys if someone she doesn't know touches her.. I think she would be like that no matter how I paranted her, that's just her personality.

[my3peanuts]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

I'm new to these boards, lots of debates huh....well I'm going off topic a little..just for a quick question, I hope that's ok because I don't want to start a thread for it. What's "mainstream" and what's "ap". I've been told that I was ap, though I couldn't breastfeed: . but my daughter loves the video "babysongs" and it soothes when I need a 15min break to fold laundry etc..We cosleep, I hold my daugher most of the time, we just do what feels natural..I actually didn't know that there were names for different parenting( I need to come out from under my rock)) As for her being well behaved most people say "she's spoiled" she's very picky. She screams and crys if someone she doesn't know touches her.. I think she would be like that no matter how I paranted her, that's just her personality.

I had never even heard the term "mainstream" in reference to parenting style until coming here.

To me mainstream means that you tend to follow the trends in regards to well baby visits, possibly vaccines(although I do know "mainstream" parents who don't vaccinate their kids), baby gear, baby toys, etc...

I've gotten the impression from a lot of people here that mainstream means you let your baby CIO, you feed them formula, you circumcise them, etc... basically the opposite of AP.

I think there are variances in attachment parenting and the same is true of mainstream parenting. I think overall that mainstream parents get a bad rap.

[kawa kamuri]

Originally Posted by maya44

Well you are not going to find any mainstream books that recommend T.V. either, so you are setting up quite the false argument.

In any event I know lots and lots and lots of mainstream families that don't spank, have lovely well behaved children whom they cuddle with all the time (not the 12 year olds though, at least not in front of anyone else). Many of these families limit TV time.

my 12yo son is fine with hugs and stuff in public! my 8yo, forget it.

[katheek77]

Originally Posted by JanB

. I don't know if it has anything to do with AP vs. mainstream, or general child temperament, or what, but I'm not sure that good behavior is a direct result of attachment parenting. (

I'm going to say it's both...

Parents who AP are *generally* more likely to go with the flow, overlook the little things, etc., which MAY be magnified in certain circumstances, at least to the casual observer...

Since part of personality is inherited, I'm going to assume that AP'ers probably have less rigid children who may not succumb to the "norms" so readily....

I do some AP, and some mainstream, but, around here, I definitely would be put in the "mainstream" group

I think there's a happy medium somewhere, and that's all I'm going to say....

[LolaK]

Originally Posted by attachedmamaof3

But you do come across that way....how old are your kids again?? Just asking because sometimes, *gasp* I too, am morethan happy to grab a Barney video so the baby and I can grab a quick 30 min nap...or even*gasp* distract the older kids with TV so I can maintain my sanity..or even read a book for a few minutes. I'm okay with that....see I'm as AP as you get, but I've learned that some things just don't matter in the long run. So, I plan on continuing to lazily/selfishly 'plop' my kids in front of a movie so that I can catch my breath every now and then. And I don't feel bad about it.

And that certianly has nothing to do with the fact that I'm AP.

And the way you compare parenting styles without coming across as judgemental to family/friends is to get over yourself!! You don't know everything yet, neither do I!! Give advice when asked for advice. When someone compliments you, throw in a yes, babies really seem to like the slings or yes, we practice gentle discipline or yes, we breastfeed....don't preach. Don't dictate and above all, no name calling or insinuations. Every parent raises their way they think is best, be aware of that. You're not the only one who thinks they're right. Tread carefully.

Wow from the snarky ton of your post (and other people's posts along the way) it sure does seem like you guys do in fact feel badly for using the TV as a babysitter.

If the OP wants to say that her friends have a crappy parenting style why shouldn't she? I mean come on guys, this is a place you are supposed to come and vent. After 20 posts telling her she is a judgmental jerk you'd think you would all lay off. We all make judgements every day - it's how you form a decision - god forbide anyone comes out and admits to it though. Why would you parent the way you did if you did not judge it to be better then any other way to parent?

[Zach'smom]

Originally Posted by LolaK

Why would you parent the way you did if you did not judge it to be better then any other way to parent?

I parent the way I do because it works the best with my son. If I had another child I am sure i would have to tailor my parenting to fit that childs personality, temprament and needs. I also try to take my needs and my DH's needs into consideration.

I HATE it when people judge me, so I try very hard not to judge anyone else.

Most people I know are a cross between "AP" and "mainstream" and are trying to make the best parenting choices they can. Ragging on someone who parents different then you accomplishes nothing.

[APCDmama]

I agree with you bbrandonsmom. There is a big difference. It's a huge difference and I see it all the time, everywhere I look. I don't understand the posters who are trying to take you down for voicing your opinion. Are we not allowed to believe something is "wrong" or against our values? Are we not allowed to speak up against what we believe is harmful or detrimental to the psychology, health, and development of children? I read so much anger and defensiveness in the replies, but I fail to read the same level of emotion in the original post. The OP sounds more surprised/disappointed/saddened than judgemental. I don't think she is a "holier than thou" type. If you disagree with her, can you not say so in a gentle, kind way? You won't change anyone's viewpoint with the way you are coming across. Let's also remember that wording can change (unintentionally) the entire tone of a post - hers and yours. I am pretty sure that bbrandonsmom means well.

Ironic that you are judging her for judging others. Please think about it.

[kawa kamuri]

I don't believe your average person is able to be 100% judgement free, I don't think it is typical to live a life in which no judgements are passed. HOWEVER, I do see the difference between keeping it in check and posting about a friend and their family, a friend who trusts and cares for you and would not expect they are spending vacation with you being judged for their parenting and written about in a public forum.

Maybe I can't see the original post for what it is, I don't know, I keep thinking about that mama and how terrible she would feel if she knew what a great friend she has. Most people I know IRL parent differently than I do but I wouldn't smile to their face and then snark online.

[numericmama]

Maybe I can't see the original post for what it is, I don't know, I keep thinking about that mama and how terrible she would feel if she knew what a great friend she has. Most people I know IRL parent differently than I do but I wouldn't smile to their face and then snark online.

*************

What other suggestions is there for her?

I have family members who use severe TOs. I am uncomfortable with my son even witnessing the child's upset, and how she is constantly being told to stuff her feelings and to distrust her feelings. There is literally nothing I can say to them about it. They are truely doing the best they can in a hard situation and have greatly improved with parent education (which includes the use of TOs, a ton or praise, and the feeling stuffing). I am very distressed about the situation. I try and limit our time together. I try and offset the negative impact by discussing things with my son later. Even my husband is distressed and he usually thinks I am overboard. BUT I still need to get my frustrated, sorrowful feelings out to someone. So, I keep quiet at the family events, I empathize with their situtaiton, but my friends do hear about it later.

[APCDmama]

I think I understand what you're saying, kawa kamuri. That makes sense to me. But I also agree with numericmama's points. Sometimes, we do need to keep our thoughts to ourselves in order to respect another's feelings or simply to keep the peace. There is also a time and place to share these thoughts, and it often happens amongst like-minded (or at least open-minded) people.

[Kylix]

Originally Posted by LolaK

After 20 posts telling her she is a judgmental jerk you'd think you would all lay off. We all make judgements every day - it's how you form a decision - god forbide anyone comes out and admits to it though. Why would you parent the way you did if you did not judge it to be better then any other way to parent?

I have to agree with this.

Yes, the OP was judging. We are all judgemental. It's human nature. Give this OP some support and I bet the judging will die down.

Kylix

[MaryCeleste]

Originally Posted by Zach'smom

Most people I know are a cross between "AP" and "mainstream" and are trying to make the best parenting choices they can.

This is something I've noticed since I first learned about the whole "AP vs non-AP" debate, back when I was still single. IRL, the families I've met with young children are all over the map. You can't really make any blanket predictions about how they're going to do things. For instance, I know dedicated "family bedders" who use formula by choice, and "child-led weaners" who occasionally spank. (Not to mention those quasi-NFL folks who feed their children an organic whole-foods diet, and give them natural wooden toys to inspire creative play, but also let them watch quite a bit of TV. Hmm, wait, that would be us. )

Whether or not I'd agree with these families' decisions, they clearly have their own reasons for doing what they do. They don't seem to be ignorant of the alternatives, or stuck in a "mainstream mindset." In fact, many of them did certain things one way with their first child, then switched with the second or third.

Another problem with this supposed dichotomy is that some of the "AP" and "GD" practices are becoming "mainstream," in the sense that they're being promoted by popular "experts" and various professional organizations. For example, based on what I've seen from the AAP, parenting web sites and magazines, and the majority of bestselling books -- and from what I've observed in my own community (admittedly, in a fairly "liberal/progressive" state) :

• Spanking is not mainstream. (This applies 100x for the Pearls, et al.)
• Formula feeding is not mainstream.
• Scheduled feeding is not mainstream.
• Giving solids before 6 months is not mainstream.
• CIO in the first few months is not mainstream.
• Putting baby to sleep in a separate room from the earliest days is not mainstream.

When we see a parent who's doing some things we strongly disagree with, instead of labeling that person as "mainstream," it might be more helpful to try to understand why they've chosen not to follow the advice (which they've most likely already heard, from one source or another) to follow that particular AP/GD/NFL practice. Even if we think their behavior is wrong, or even harmful, we can respect their intentions to do right by their children. In fact, I tend to think we must do so. If we don't... if we just figure they're "lazy," and can't be bothered... then what hope is there at all?

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by Kylix

I have to agree with this.

Yes, the OP was judging. We are all judgemental. It's human nature. Give this OP some support and I bet the judging will die down.

Kylix

Some support for *what*, precisely?

I'm not being snarky, I'm truly curious.

It honestly sounded to me like she was looking for a pile on about how crappy her friend's parenting was. Honestly, what else could have been the point of starting this thread? She was comparing parenting styles, with the obvious implication that "AP" yields "better" results than "mainstream".

Calling somebody on being judgemental is not the same as being judgemental.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom

I was just shocked to see the total lack of respect from kids to parents

I guarantee you that you'd be shocked at how my ds treats me, too .

And I wouldn't cuddle him nearly as much if he would stop climbing on my lap every time I sit down.

Kids with siblings in school get sick more. My breastfed preschooler got everything that came his way during his brief time at school.

There are no easy solutions or pat answers in parenting.

I'm sure problems exist with your friend's parenting (as they do in mine) but even spending the day with wonderful AP GD parents cause me to wonder if their way is best. Family dynamics are so complicated and there is so much that is a response to unseen and unobservable things.

[LolaK]

Originally Posted by MaryCeleste

• Spanking is not mainstream. (This applies 100x for the Pearls, et al.)
• Formula feeding is not mainstream.
• Scheduled feeding is not mainstream.
• Giving solids before 6 months is not mainstream.
• CIO in the first few months is not mainstream.
• Putting baby to sleep in a separate room from the earliest days is not mainstream.

I have no idea where you live but it is a bubble I would like to live in too. I live in one of the most liberal states in the US, in one of the most liberal towns in said state. Everything in that list except for spanking is 100% mainstream to the 100th degree.

[DQMama]

I also see a lot of threads like this but I have to say I can see where the OP is coming from.

IRL I feel very alone much of the time. I feel like my parenting practices are judged when someone makes a comment that it is gross to nurse a 2 year old, or they ask about dd's cloth diapers when I change her in public and say they make a face when they ask what to do w/ the poop and I say I dump it in the toilet (I know that's NFL not AP but I'm talking about parenting in general).

So it's nice to have a place to come where someone can "pat you on the back" for parenting the way you do instead of feeling judged. Does that make you judgemental as well? Maybe, but I'm personally tired of feeling I'm the only one who does stuff the way I do.

[Kylix]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

Some support for *what*, precisely?

I'm not being snarky, I'm truly curious.

It honestly sounded to me like she was looking for a pile on about how crappy her friend's parenting was. Honestly, what else could have been the point of starting this thread? She was comparing parenting styles, with the obvious implication that "AP" yields "better" results than "mainstream".

Calling somebody on being judgemental is not the same as being judgemental.

How about "it must be hard watching someone parenting in a way that you don't agree with". Or, "it sounds like you are doing a great job with your dc, don't worry about others. She's doing the best she can too". There were some posters who took this approach and then there were others where the snark was palpable. It's not necessary.

I wasn't referring to "calling someone on being judgemental" when I said everyone is judgemental although I do think the snark borders on that. I simply meant we all judge. And I agree that we wouldn't be so for AP if we didn't judge it to be the best way to parent our kids. She voiced the thoughts she had in her head. Maybe it isn't productive or fair but there is no need for the snark. Find out what she was really trying to communicate in her post and speak to that. I think we need to be gentle with each other here.

Kylix

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

I'm not advocating extended use of television for young children, but I don't think it really has much to do with whether one is AP or not. Much like cloth diapering or vaxing, television is a topic that creeps into AP discussions but has nothing to do with attachment.