11 year old son and hardcore pornography - Page 6

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by thismama

Coz male sexuality is so mystical and foreign that us little women could never hope to understand it. Even if we have a university degree in the subject and are sexual beings ourselves. :

i was on board with ya till I read this.... it is kinda condescending.


Understanding someone elses sexuality is a very hard thing, and I can attest that I know of NO man that truly understands a womans sexuality. I just assumed that it was just as hard for a woman to truly understand ours.


I do not think, and this is only an opinion, that someone of the opposite sex cant effectively teach you about your emotions during this phase in a young persons life without quite a bit of difficulty. I personally would have no idea how to have these conversations with a daughter and from talking to my significant other about how to handle the situations with our son I have come to believe that she would be as inept at that as I would with a girl... That is not an insult by any means, I just accept the strengths and weaknesses we both have.

[devster4fun]

Great thread and very thought provoking. I was talking with DH about this topic last night. He told me about a time when his Dad caught him taping a movie from "Skinemax." He still remembers the title...."Snowbunnies." You know the ones, from the early 80's. No plot, a little bit of boob, rated R. He says his Dad was furious, embarassed him (shamed) and was forced to aplogize to his Mom. (Ugh) This reaction was par for the course for DH growing up.

*makes a sweeping generalization* This repression (IMO) contributed to creating an increased fixation on sex and thus, porn for DH. Good thing we met...I have a great collection.


Lots of points made already in this thread about current Internet stuff vs. a classic Playboy or whatever. I agree 100%. As a couple, we often enjoy looking at videos from 10 (okay 15-20) years ago. The women look like humans and there's just something cooler about them. I would NOT want my DD exposed to extreme images until much, much later.

I don't remember who posted about men not liking books or erotic literature....ever heard of Penthouse Letters? I'm sure they're 99% untrue, but still marketed at men, yes?

GWH, your natural reaction to your son was so wonderful and natural. It's clear he has a thoughtful and intuitive Mom, doing her best.

I will check back on this thread in a week....off to Florida for some fun and sun!

[DigitalSuze]

nak

Interesting thread. So, my 11-year-old and I were driving home one evening (all of our big talks happen in the car). Suddenly, he says, "I have to tell you something, but I really don't want to!" After a bit of encouragement and assurance, and following several minutes of extreme hesitation on his part (and serious worry on mine), he finally blurted at the top of his lungs: "I've been looking at porn!"

I didn't understand what he'd said, so the poor kid had to repeat it.

I have to say, I was kind of relieved. The level of his anxiety had me worried that it was something much worse.

I was kind of shocked, but managed to hold it together pretty well. We had some of the same discussions as you, GWH: it's natural to want to look at pretty girls, sex is a good, fun thing, etc. I did take pains to point out that A) there is some weird stuff on the net and I wasn't keen on him looking at it, and B) sex is an experience that your body is ready for way before your mind is. It was a good conversation, he was relieved, I encouraged him to ask me questions if he comes across anything that confuses him, etc. etc. He apologized profusely -- it was so sad! I did tell him that I didn't think an apology was necessary.

I did check the history on his computer later and didn't find activity -- this thread reminds me that I need to do that more often. I do worry about the really hardcore stuff, but I think the best I can do is monitor frequently and maintain open discussion.

DS1 is an enthusiastic gamer, so I knew he would eventually come across porn -- I'm glad he came to me about it, but I know I can't go to extreme lengths to keep him from it. It's not so hard to get around a filter, kwim?

I'm not of the opinion that porn creates addicted misogynists who can't have healthy relationships. It's like drugs: some people have that part of their genetic makeup and if they're unfortunate enough to find their substance, well...my son's father is a recovering drug addict who is that kind of person. I'm not sure about DS, but he's aware that this could be an issue for him in the future.

My dp likes porn, has a collection, the whole bit. He certainly knows the difference between the artifice of porn and real women, and appreciates them both.

Anyway, OP, I think you're handling this situation in a sensitive and conscientious manner. Your son is fortunate that you're his mom.

[GoodWillHunter]

Kind of off topic, but I'm convinced that Penthouse Letters are written by the same person, lol. They are all so repetitive and use a lot of the same words. Hee. We used to have some of them, but I got bored with them and sold them to Half Price Books.

And men do enjoy erotic literature. My ex (my son's father) loves erotic literature and had several books on the subject when we were together.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by GoodWillHunter

Kind of off topic, but I'm convinced that Penthouse Letters are written by the same person, lol. They are all so repetitive and use a lot of the same words. Hee. We used to have some of them, but I got bored with them and sold them to Half Price Books.

And men do enjoy erotic literature. My ex (my son's father) loves erotic literature and had several books on the subject when we were together.

I know! And how often does a buxom lady move next door to you and immediately start sunbathing in the all-together, anyway!

[GoodWillHunter]

You don't have a neighbor like that?!?! I thought everyone did!

[AnnaLC]

I would feel so violated if my mother ever gave me porn...let alone my dad, a member of the OPOSITE sex. To me the idea of giving him porn and directing where his fantasy life goes (the most personal and private thing ever) is just sexually invasive.
Yes, filter the internet, and tell him that you don't want hardcore porn in the house if those are your rules, no argument there... some things you just can't unsee...
but i wouldn't get him porn... he's 11, once in a while he's gonna have a few dollars laying around, if he wants to go get maxim or playboy or any of the relatively soft stuff that is sold at news stands, he can do it on his own.
It is important for him to know the guidelines and that sexuality and curiosity are normal... but there's no reason for you to have to give him "reading" material.
IMO, the best thing that you could do for him is to talk to him about how to treat women and the issues sorrounding publishing of their images (you dont even have to mention hardcore porn... Underwear models would even do the trick) and make sure he knows how sex really works and the concerns associated with it... besides, if he knows the mechanics (which I assume he does) he's probably using that noggin to make his own porn at this point... I deffonitly was.

That's just my 2 cents.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by AnnaLC

I would feel so violated if my mother ever gave me porn...let alone my dad, a member of the OPOSITE sex. To me the idea of giving him porn and directing where his fantasy life goes (the most personal and private thing ever) is just sexually invasive.

I am not sure anyone on here was saying hand him porn. The idea was given to purchase magazines, books, or things like that and leave them where he would find them.

Originally Posted by AnnaLC

Yes, filter the internet, and tell him that you don't want hardcore porn in the house if those are your rules, no argument there... some things you just can't unsee...

Just wanted to let you know my experience. You can tell him all you want and it doesn't ensure anything. The filters don't ensure anything either. I agree it isn't something that I would have picked for my 10 year to find, but it happened. He is going to be 12 next month and he hasn't viewed porn for several months. One of the things we did at first was filter and lock down the system. The thing is that they need to learn to self-censor b/c there will be a time when they are out of our reach (friend's house) and if they have never learned to self-censor they will probably be more than happy to participate in viewing when they are out of our reach. I wanted my son to know he could trust himself to be on a computer and not give into temptation b/c the porn is a huge temptation.

Originally Posted by AnnaLC

but i wouldn't get him porn... he's 11, once in a while he's gonna have a few dollars laying around, if he wants to go get maxim or playboy or any of the relatively soft stuff that is sold at news stands, he can do it on his own.
It is important for him to know the guidelines and that sexuality and curiosity are normal... but there's no reason for you to have to give him "reading" material.

I am not sure I see the difference between buying the magazines for him or him saving his money and buying them himself. Are you expecting him to tell you he is buying the stuff or do you want him to do it without your knowledge? Why would he know it is acceptable to buy his own magazine and not something to hide if you don't discuss all aspects of it?

[BrooklynDoula]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

Understanding someone elses sexuality is a very hard thing, and I can attest that I know of NO man that truly understands a womans sexuality. I just assumed that it was just as hard for a woman to truly understand ours.

I do not think, and this is only an opinion, that someone of the opposite sex cant effectively teach you about your emotions during this phase in a young persons life without quite a bit of difficulty. I personally would have no idea how to have these conversations with a daughter and from talking to my significant other about how to handle the situations with our son I have come to believe that she would be as inept at that as I would with a girl... That is not an insult by any means, I just accept the strengths and weaknesses we both have.

I think this is a major, and very relevant point you make and it needs to be extended outside of a reductioninst model of sexed bodies and sexualities. No one really understands other people's sexualities - and having the same or similar genitals does not give you any special insights. I identify with a femme gender identity and I have a vagina but I would never presume that this gave me some precutural or pancultural understanding of all other people who have vaginas.

The ways in which we engages with erotics, desires, sexual practices, sexed bodies, and the persutes of pleasure are social practices but they are simultaneously incredibly individualized. Suggesting, for example, that no men like erotica, that feminist erotics and pornography are "propoganda", and that simplying being a man gives one profound insight into the sexual desires and erotic practices of half of the world's people totally relies on such problematic notions of standpoint theory and reductionist ideologies about bodies, identity, and personhood. These types of universalizing efforts are part of what is so wrong with US American engagements with sexuality and erotics and why discussion like this, about how to raise sex positive and healthy children, are so imporant.

Further, this is what is so key about GWH's handling of this situation. She is showing respect for her son and his curiousity in a sex positive and supportive way, rather than making blanket assumptions about what is "good" or "right" or whatnot and rather than creating a shaemful, 'power-over' dynamic with her son.

[glendora]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

I think it's the other way around - people seek sexual gratification through visual stimuli, and the side effect is that some people make money from it.

I'd believe that if there were more porn that was actually about "sexual gratification" instead of degradation. The internet really changed the porn game.

[ktbug]

Wow, what a thread!

I have a few questions.

Why would you tell him he has to get rid of the porn when you find it, but then go out of your way to LET him find porn - would you then have to tell him to get rid of the stuff you "let" him find? It seems kind of circular and confusing.

If there's nothing wrong with him looking at it, why would you tell him to get rid of it in the first place?

Wouldn't the "ability to self-censor" when in other settings, like at a friend's house where there aren't any content filters, just alienate him from what the other boys are doing? What does he do at that point, read a book? Call you to come pick him up? Please forgive me if I sound snarky, I'm truly trying to understand. My honest opinion is that he's probably not going to "self-censor", especially in front of peers. And ... frankly ... why should he?

Oh, and I had one more thought. Maxim is the most anti-woman thing I have ever read, and I've read High Society. The girls in Maxim might be wearing underwear, but the text is humiliating, dehumanizing, and all in all just NOT the message to send a budding 12-year old boy about females and sexuality. Forget the pictures, critically READ the magazine sometime, and I hope you'll see that it could potentially be a horrible influence on a young man. I mean, at least Playboy lets the girls fill out their own "turn on/turn off" cards.

[GoodWillHunter]

There isn't anything inherently wrong with him looking at porn. I dislike hardcore porn because it is a huge thing to wrap MY brain around and I'm 34 years old and have vastly more experience than my innocent 11 year old son.

And, yes, if he feels uncomfortable with what his friends are doing then, hell yes, he should call me to pick him up. It's the same thing if a friend brings out beer and offers him a taste. He knows he's not ready for that. He also knows he can call me anytime.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by ktbug

Wow, what a thread!

I have a few questions.

Why would you tell him he has to get rid of the porn when you find it, but then go out of your way to LET him find porn - would you then have to tell him to get rid of the stuff you "let" him find? It seems kind of circular and confusing.

Not the OP, but I have experienced the porn issue (still do) with my own son starting at age 10. For us, it was the type of content he was viewing online that was disturbing. He saw video clips of sexual acts, as well as, still photos of very explicit sex acts being performed. We personally haven't purchased other types of stimulus for him to "find" such as magazines, but that is just b/c it wasn't right for our family. We will explore that as he gets older (he will be 12 next month).

Originally Posted by ktbug

If there's nothing wrong with him looking at it, why would you tell him to get rid of it in the first place?

There is nothing wrong with curiousity about the other gender, but the photos/videos he was accessing were entirely wrong for his age. IMO it is not healthy for a child of his age to view anything that depicts the sex act. That can wait until he is a little older.

Originally Posted by ktbug

Wouldn't the "ability to self-censor" when in other settings, like at a friend's house where there aren't any content filters, just alienate him from what the other boys are doing? What does he do at that point, read a book? Call you to come pick him up? Please forgive me if I sound snarky, I'm truly trying to understand. My honest opinion is that he's probably not going to "self-censor", especially in front of peers. And ... frankly ... why should he?

I would hope he would remove himself from the situation. It is no different than stepping out if his friends decide to drink, smoke, do drugs, or engage in an activity that he feels is not appropriate. I would love if he felt comfortable to call me to come get him.

The whole idea of Joe was doing it, so I had to is a huge pet peeve of mine. My children have learned from early on that they are responsible for their actions and if they choose to go along just b/c their friends are doing it, they are going to have the same consequences as their friends. Thankfully, at least right now, my kids are very strong in their beliefs and have very little problem saying I won't be a part of this activity b/c it is not appropriate. That is a critical message to learn early b/c it will be their lifeline as they are older.

If he wants to self-censor, then why should he not? Do you really feel a child should just go along with their buddies b/c they want to save face? That can lead to some pretty dangerous situation, as well as, consequences. My son has little problem stating when he feels something is wrong now and I hope to encourage that for his teen years. My kids know they can always call me from a friend's house if they are not comfortable with what is happening.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by glendora

I'd believe that if there were more porn that was actually about "sexual gratification" instead of degradation. The internet really changed the porn game.

Are you suggesting that a) no one achieves gratification through viewing porn and that b) all people in all porn are being degraded?

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by ktbug

Wouldn't the "ability to self-censor" when in other settings, like at a friend's house where there aren't any content filters, just alienate him from what the other boys are doing? What does he do at that point, read a book? Call you to come pick him up? Please forgive me if I sound snarky, I'm truly trying to understand. My honest opinion is that he's probably not going to "self-censor", especially in front of peers. And ... frankly ... why should he?

What effect would punishment and humiliation have on his likelihood to react well or poorly when confronted with pornography in a peer setting? I may be misunderstanding your post, though, so would you mind clarifying?

[glendora]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

Are you suggesting that a) no one achieves gratification through viewing porn and that b) all people in all porn are being degraded?

I am suggesting that pornographers have created and expanded markets the way that any other business does. There are a lot of things out there we don't know we "need" until the market tells us we "need" it. It is the job of profitable business to create demand.

So, porn has gotten more violent, and I'm suggesting that because it's true. Most of that expansion has been to make movies about degradation--the turn-on is power based and created through seeing people degraded.

I'm sort of stuck for other examples, because I don't want to be a UA Violation!

Are you suggesting that the porn business has some sort of exemption from market forces because it's connected to sex?

[glendora]

I am also strongly "suggesting" that pornographers do not make porn because of an altruistic desire to bring orgasms to the world. They make porn because it's profitable. Like Nike makes sneakers. And, Nestle makes formula.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by glendora

I am suggesting that pornographers have created and expanded markets the way that any other business does. There are a lot of things out there we don't know we "need" until the market tells us we "need" it. It is the job of profitable business to create demand.

So, porn has gotten more violent, and I'm suggesting that because it's true. Most of that expansion has been to make movies about degradation--the turn-on is power based and created through seeing people degraded.

I'm sort of stuck for other examples, because I don't want to be a UA Violation!

Are you suggesting that the porn business has some sort of exemption from market forces because it's connected to sex?

Well, I don't believe the internet has created this demand that wasn't there before. I think it is easier to track now b/c of the internet and the number of hits to a site, but I doubt it is more prevelant....just easier to track.

I also don't believe porn is more violent, it's just easier to access online. You no longer have to go to an adult store to rent a video. As far as violence, again not more violent, just easier to view it from your home.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by glendora

I am also strongly "suggesting" that pornographers do not make porn because of an altruistic desire to bring orgasms to the world. They make porn because it's profitable. Like Nike makes sneakers. And, Nestle makes formula.

I don't doubt the profit is a huge factor in creating porn. I would guess that it is a major part of it, just like any other business.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by glendora

I am suggesting that pornographers have created and expanded markets the way that any other business does. There are a lot of things out there we don't know we "need" until the market tells us we "need" it. It is the job of profitable business to create demand.

So, porn has gotten more violent, and I'm suggesting that because it's true. Most of that expansion has been to make movies about degradation--the turn-on is power based and created through seeing people degraded.

I'm sort of stuck for other examples, because I don't want to be a UA Violation!

Are you suggesting that the porn business has some sort of exemption from market forces because it's connected to sex?

No no - but I think it's important to talk about the related but separate issues of pornography and the porn business.

About degradation, what if a person enjoys feeling degraded? What if a person is stimulated by scenes of degradation? Does that make them a bad person? Are we, as a society, now going to determine what a consenting adult can see other consenting adults do?

I think sexuality is much more complex than just good and bad. I also would like to point out that pornography has existed for thousands of years, so while I agree with you about the changes in availability, everything depicted in pornography of today has been depicted in the past.