11 year old son and hardcore pornography - Page 7

[glendora]

Originally Posted by Houdini

Well, I don't believe the internet has created this demand that wasn't there before. I think it is easier to track now b/c of the internet and the number of hits to a site, but I doubt it is more prevelant....just easier to track.

I also don't believe porn is more violent, it's just easier to access online. You no longer have to go to an adult store to rent a video. As far as violence, again not more violent, just easier to view it from your home.

The people that are in the business say that it's more violent.

[glendora]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

I think sexuality is much more complex than just good and bad. I also would like to point out that pornography has existed for thousands of years, so while I agree with you about the changes in availability, everything depicted in pornography of today has been depicted in the past.

Yeah, well, the UA agreement makes this whole line of conversation sort of pointless.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by glendora

I am also strongly "suggesting" that pornographers do not make porn because of an altruistic desire to bring orgasms to the world. They make porn because it's profitable. Like Nike makes sneakers. And, Nestle makes formula.

Profit is the same reason organic cotton hammock makers make organic cotton hammocks - businesses exist to make money. However, the porn business exists because people want to see other people having sex - and always have. I don't have any illusions about the nature of the porn business, but can you or I really decide for other adults that they are not allowed to make or see porn because of our moral or ethical convictions?

As an aside, I noticed your use of quotes around suggesting - I hope I didn't seem rude in my previous post, I'm just giving my opinion.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by glendora

The people that are in the business say that it's more violent.

Interesting......link please.

[BrooklynDoula]

Originally Posted by Houdini

Well, I don't believe the internet has created this demand that wasn't there before. I think it is easier to track now b/c of the internet and the number of hits to a site, but I doubt it is more prevelant....just easier to track.

I also don't believe porn is more violent, it's just easier to access online. You no longer have to go to an adult store to rent a video. As far as violence, again not more violent, just easier to view it from your home.

I have to agree with this here. Further, porn has actually become easier to CONTROL in many ways through the internet. Certianly there is now LESS child pornography effectively being distributed without punishment (I work in fornesic psychology and we see case afetr case of internet busted child porn).

As for the larger debate - porn is often a money driven enterprise, although not always as there are people who enjoy taking and distributing for free pictures and movies of themselves and their various lovers. Simply being a profit driven industry does not make it bad - the organic clothing industry is also profit driven, as are slings and cloth diapers and all sorts of other things advocated for strongly here. Much like bad products and bad producers in other industries, porn is not exempt from these issues but it is also not as plagued by them as many want to suggest.

Are women all degraded (and is degradation experiences as a bad thing) in poor? No. Is negotiates of power in porn always a bad thing? No. Certianly the anti-porn feminist of the 1980s already hashed this one out pretty effectively and came out on the losing end of the arguement. Even pictorial images of violence within porn are not fundementally wrong since these are part of the larger negotiations of erotics and desires that are a part of the human condition.

Clearly I don't support porn that is abusive (child porn for example or coerced porn, secret images of people from bathrooms, or the use of violence that is not concentual, etc) but a blanket condemation of porn on the grounds that it is violent or degrading or profit driven seems overly universalized. I imagine we can all agree that much like calling all tennis shoes the product of child labor and suffering (when some are but all are not) and going barefoot instead of buying them is not the answer - the answer is seeking out and supporting those who do not abuse while making their products and growing those inductries with the market forces you mentioned.

[glendora]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

Profit is the same reason organic cotton hammock makers make organic cotton hammocks - businesses exist to make money. However, the porn business exists because people want to see other people having sex - and always have. I don't have any illusions about the nature of the porn business, but can you or I really decide for other adults that they are not allowed to make or see porn because of our moral or ethical convictions?

As an aside, I noticed your use of quotes around suggesting - I hope I didn't seem rude in my previous post, I'm just giving my opinion.

Dude... where did I say that I wanted to regulate ANYTHING? How is it regulating or legislating or forcing ANYTHING on ANYONE to state that porn is a business? Did I say anything about laws at all?

Yeah, you do sound rude. You've put a whole lot of presumptions on me just out of thin air.

I love how anyone in this thread that isn't "YAY PORN!" is automatically some sort of prudish, Meese Report thumping, would-be censor.

People can think critically about the content of pornography without insisting that it be outlawed. To hear some of y'all tell it, any analysis at all is oppressive to porn-consumers.

[glendora]

Originally Posted by MSAX

Clearly I don't support porn that is abusive (child porn for example or coerced porn, secret images of people from bathrooms, or the use of violence that is not concentual, etc) but a blanket condemation of porn on the grounds that it is violent or degrading or profit driven seems overly universalized. I imagine we can all agree that much like calling all tennis shoes the product of child labor and suffering (when some are but all are not) and going barefoot instead of buying them is not the answer - the answer is seeking out and supporting those who do not abuse while making their products and growing those inductries with the market forces you mentioned.

And, for some of us the answer is to decide that we don't wish to have sex sold to us as a consumer product, complete with a middle man making most of the profit..

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by glendora

Dude... where did I say that I wanted to regulate ANYTHING? How is it regulating or legislating or forcing ANYTHING on ANYONE to state that porn is a business? Did I say anything about laws at all?

Er...did I? I talked about deciding, morally or ethically, for others what is and is not degrading, I didn't suggest that you were advocating legislation/

Yeah, you do sound rude. You've put a whole lot of presumptions on me just out of thin air.

I apologize.

I love how anyone in this thread that isn't "YAY PORN!" is automatically some sort of prudish, Meese Report thumping, would-be censor.

People can think critically about the content of pornography without insisting that it be outlawed. To hear some of y'all tell it, any analysis at all is oppressive to porn-consumers.

Since you seem to be taking this personally, or at least seem to be getting angry, I'll refrain from debating with you further. Peace.

[MelanieMC]

Originally Posted by Punkymom

Ok, here's my 2cents. I was 6 when I found my dad's stash of porn. 6. He had a subscription to PentHouse and Play Boy and he also had a variety of movies. I saw it all. My mom found out. She was devistated. My dad found out. He really didn't care. He would read his mags in the living room while he watched football on Sunday (we were church goers). I was basically addicted to porn until a few years ago and it continues to be a challenge for me. For me, it ruined my childhood. I thought about this stuff constantly. I wish that my barbies could have been just having a food fight or something, but instead they were having sex. In every position bc at the age of 7 I knew them all. For me, I really wish my mom had put her foot down and made my dad get rid of it. She wanted him to, but he wouldn't. I feel like I was ruled by that nightstand in my parent's room and would sneak these magazines out and read them, cover to cover. I really wish that they would have put their foot down and gotten rid of them.

I totally identify with this. For me it started at age 9 and continued up until about 2 years ago, but its still something thats with me. It totally ruined my childhood in the sense that I feel like my innocence was stolen. I became addicted quickly and when I think about the things that ive seen in videos, magazines and esp. the internet I feel sick. Like punkymom I can still remember all of the images I've seen and it haunts me. When I think back to a certain video my dad had that I saw for the first time at age 11 I feel sick to my stomach. It was *extremely* hardcore and I saw things that no child should ever see. I still feel impulses to look online, but I fight it. There have been times when I have had to turn off the computer and disconnect the internet cords just so I won't look. I know a few pictures may seem innocent to some, but that's how it started for me and for so many others, and it snowballs from there. I wish I could go back in time and never even touch one of my dads magazines. It really did ruin my childhood and at age 21 I still feel the effects and I think I always will. I wish that I could have had a healthy and normal view of sex, but it was tainted for me with images that in no way represent what a normal healthy sexual relationship is like. I've never told anyone about this before, online or irl.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by MelanieMC

I've never told anyone about this before, online or irl.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by glendora

I love how anyone in this thread that isn't "YAY PORN!" is automatically some sort of prudish, Meese Report thumping, would-be censor.

People can think critically about the content of pornography without insisting that it be outlawed. To hear some of y'all tell it, any analysis at all is oppressive to porn-consumers.

Interesting.....wondering where you got this assumption. I am certainly not "YAY PORN!" and I don't see where anyone has said I am "some sort of prudish, Meese Report thumping, would be censor" anymore than I have seen anyone saying this about you.

I also don't see where anyone stated that analysis is oppressive to porn consumers.

Just wondering if you found the link that supports this quote from you.

Originally Posted by glendora

The people that are in the business say that it's more violent

[ktbug]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

What effect would punishment and humiliation have on his likelihood to react well or poorly when confronted with pornography in a peer setting? I may be misunderstanding your post, though, so would you mind clarifying?

I was definitely, definitely not advocating punishment and humiliation. I think that would have a completely ruinous effect, as evidenced by many of our mens' negative attitudes toward sex. To answer your question in a straightforward manner, I believe that the effect of punishment and humiliation would cause him to have an extremely slim likelihood to react well when confronted with pornography.

I'm all for fostering healthy attitudes about sex from the beginning.

The questions in my post dealt more with what I saw as potentially flawed logic or potentially confusing messages being sent to the adolescent in question.

And OP - that's so, so awesome that you and your son have such a trusting and honest relationship. That's definitely the cornerstone in developing healthy adolescent attitudes about sex. Of course whatever is forbidden or disapproved of is going to be what is sought out. My question to you about the self-censorship issue was possibly a bit of a snap judgement, just in the fact that I've never met a 12-year old boy who would, when faced with the choice of looking at forbidden porn on the internet with his friends at a sleepover or calling his mom to come get him, choose to call his mom. That would be awesome if your son is that kind of kid.

Please do not misunderstand me. I wish he would call you, too, when faced with that choice. And I don't pretend to know him, or you, only the stereotype of a pubescent boy - and my gut tells me not to expect him to call you. YMMV.

[GoodWillHunter]

Well, honestly, I HOPE he'd call me. I have no idea. It would be his choice to call me. More than likely? He'd probably look, feel badly about it, and come talk to me about it later.

I guess, my point is, I am making my home a haven for him, a safe place to be, if you will. He can be the little kid he is and still have talks with mom or stepdad (or dad or stepmom) about sexual issues. I can't control what he sees at Johnny's house, but I can instill some sense of right and wrong in him. I wouldn't punish him for staying at johnny's house and looking at porn as, well, it's a normal thing to do. I would again explain why I feel it's not the right time to be viewing pornography and how can we react in the future to prevent this from happening again? Perhaps a little role play could be done to help him find his words in that sort of situation. We do that with regards to drugs, why not pornography?

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by ktbug

Please do not misunderstand me. I wish he would call you, too, when faced with that choice. And I don't pretend to know him, or you, only the stereotype of a pubescent boy - and my gut tells me not to expect him to call you. YMMV.

I guess it would depend on the relationship between the parent and child. My children have always known they can call me if they need me. My daughter (10) and son (almost 12) have already done so.

[attachedmamaof3]

Wow...the OP didn't post a "Let's talk about whether or not we support porn" post...she posted regarding an 11 yr old boy who has ALREADY SEEN HARDCORE PORN...IMO (and correct me if I'm wrong GWH) the issues that she is looking for help on are how to:
1) come to terms with the fact that said 11 yr old has seen some things that we'd rather he'd not
2) make sure that these images he's already seen do not become normalized to him (hence my suggestion for art sketches or other pictures of a woman's natural body in a non-sexualized setting in order to prompt discussion between his parents and himself regarding normal sexual curiosity and womens' bodies. Would I suggest this to a mother of an 11yr old who had not already viewed hardcore material? Probably not. BUT, I for one find no harm in curious adolescents having accidental access to 'safe' natural pictures of a woman's body in a non-sexualized setting)
3)vent a little!

Now, am I (OP,or other posters) suggesting she bring him more porn? No. Are we hosting a discussion on the merits (or lack of) of porn? No. I think we all can agree that we'd all prefer that our prepubescent teens not view hardcore sexual material, but he already has so the question is how to remedy that and try to prevent it in the future!

We need to make sure we are limiting the discussion to the matters at hand, or start a new thread to further investigate the turn this thread has taken.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by ktbug

I was definitely, definitely not advocating punishment and humiliation. I think that would have a completely ruinous effect, as evidenced by many of our mens' negative attitudes toward sex. To answer your question in a straightforward manner, I believe that the effect of punishment and humiliation would cause him to have an extremely slim likelihood to react well when confronted with pornography.

I'm all for fostering healthy attitudes about sex from the beginning.

The questions in my post dealt more with what I saw as potentially flawed logic or potentially confusing messages being sent to the adolescent in question.

And OP - that's so, so awesome that you and your son have such a trusting and honest relationship. That's definitely the cornerstone in developing healthy adolescent attitudes about sex. Of course whatever is forbidden or disapproved of is going to be what is sought out. My question to you about the self-censorship issue was possibly a bit of a snap judgement, just in the fact that I've never met a 12-year old boy who would, when faced with the choice of looking at forbidden porn on the internet with his friends at a sleepover or calling his mom to come get him, choose to call his mom. That would be awesome if your son is that kind of kid.

Please do not misunderstand me. I wish he would call you, too, when faced with that choice. And I don't pretend to know him, or you, only the stereotype of a pubescent boy - and my gut tells me not to expect him to call you. YMMV.

Thanks for clarifying.

[GoodWillHunter]

Thank you, Attachedmamaof3. I do appreciate it.

[mommy68]

I would trash it if I found it a second time and not say anything to him this time. He will get the hint if he goes back and its not there. He's only 11 yrs old and what a child does when really young sticks with them forever. When I was 14 and had sex with an older boy and he abused me for several years has stuck with me through all of my sexual experiences in life. This is because he was my first experience and I feel its that way with all big experiences in life. They stick with you the rest of your life. If your son is looking at porn then that is what he will remember regarding women. That's not what real life relationships and sex is about and he will be sadly disappointed when he finds that out one day when he is older. It may also make him grow up thinking women should have perfect bodies and want to do not so nice things in the bedroom just because he saw it in books before he even hit puberty. So whether you realize it or not this stuff will stick with him for the long haul. Get rid of it and don't allow it in your house. You have that right while he is underage.

I'm curious but are you divorced? Why haven't you mentioned your childs father and how he should handle this type of situation? Your son most likely cried the first time you approached him because he was embarrassed since you are a female. I think at this age it's time for his father to take responsibility in that area. No boy wants to hear from his mom that he shouldn't look at porn. I think he would understand and listen better if a man were talking to him.

[mommy68]

I forgot to also mention if this were alcohol or some sort of drug, would you also allow him to choose whether or not to keep that in his bedroom? IMO its all relative. If he were to walk in to a store and try to buy a smut magazine then more than likely he wouldn't be able to since they are for ages 18 and up. There is a time and place for everything and 11 yrs old isn't the age to allow porn, even if he has *already* seen it. My oldest child (12) has played video games but if I feel the need to take it away I have and he now only plays his games when he has nothing better to do, maybe a couple times a month. As a parent we are supposed to limit things or take bad things away from them. If my son came home with a joint in his book bag it would go down the toilet.

If your son saw the porn already then fine, okay, I agree you handled that part well. But I do not agree with giving him the choice of keeping it or not. Thats just helping him think that at this young age he can look at perverted materials and it doesn't matter to his parents. I would never do that and it doesn't make me a prude either. I can look at porn and it doesn't bother me but I'm 38 yrs old and I've already become a sensible adult. I started looking at it once I became an adult, not at 11 yrs old. The fact is that if I KNEW my child has this material in his room then I would dispose of it. I would talk to him about it as well but its my job to make sure it's out of the reach of my child. He's underage and it's just not appropriate. I want my sons to grow up and respect women not be eager to see whats under their clothing. Thats crazy! There are already too many high school boys out there like that now. Whats wrong with wanting to help guide our boys in the right direction. On the one hand women on this board in other threads complain about men wanting sex all the time or how their relationships are based on him wanting sex when the wife doesn't want it or blah, blah. Then a thread like this comes up on how to guide a young innocent boy in the right direction so he doesn't turn out like most men in America and no one sees that what this child is doing at 11 yrs old will most certainly make him who he is sexually when he is in a relationship later on. As women we shouldn't just accept the fact that men will be men and help our small children move in to that same line of thinking that so many men for so many generations have believed. They should all be horny and lusting after sex. Thats what men are supposed to what right? I don't think so.

All boys don't have to be perverts in high school to seem "normal." There are other things besides sex that they can look forward to when they get a little older. Sex is a part of life once we are old enough to experience it and its wonderful and fun - but there are more tactful and respectful ways to teach our tweens about it besides allowing them to choose whether or not to have nasty, misleading pictures to stare at and masturbate to. Give me a break!

[ErikaLeigh]

Originally Posted by MelanieMC

I totally identify with this. For me it started at age 9 and continued up until about 2 years ago, but its still something thats with me. It totally ruined my childhood in the sense that I feel like my innocence was stolen. I became addicted quickly and when I think about the things that ive seen in videos, magazines and esp. the internet I feel sick. Like punkymom I can still remember all of the images I've seen and it haunts me. When I think back to a certain video my dad had that I saw for the first time at age 11 I feel sick to my stomach. It was *extremely* hardcore and I saw things that no child should ever see. I still feel impulses to look online, but I fight it. There have been times when I have had to turn off the computer and disconnect the internet cords just so I won't look. I know a few pictures may seem innocent to some, but that's how it started for me and for so many others, and it snowballs from there. I wish I could go back in time and never even touch one of my dads magazines. It really did ruin my childhood and at age 21 I still feel the effects and I think I always will. I wish that I could have had a healthy and normal view of sex, but it was tainted for me with images that in no way represent what a normal healthy sexual relationship is like. I've never told anyone about this before, online or irl.

Mel