11 year old son and hardcore pornography - Page 8

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I forgot to also mention if this were alcohol or some sort of drug, would you also allow him to choose whether or not to keep that in his bedroom? IMO its all relative. If he were to walk in to a store and try to buy a smut magazine then more than likely he wouldn't be able to since they are for ages 18 and up. There is a time and place for everything and 11 yrs old isn't the age to allow porn, even if he has *already* seen it. My oldest child (12) has played video games but if I feel the need to take it away I have and he now only plays his games when he has nothing better to do, maybe a couple times a month. As a parent we are supposed to limit things or take bad things away from them. If my son came home with a joint in his book bag it would go down the toilet.

Bold mine.

That is the key. It's all relative. If a family has no issues providing a magazine for their pre-teen/teen to view, so be it. Some families don't see it something "bad" that needs taken away. It seems on this thread most feel it should be limited to the type, if allowed at all. We don't do magazines or anything at this point, but I guarantee that even a clothed woman could be imagined about by a child who has already had the images placed in his head or by one who is getting to the age of curiosity. I can't/won't shield my child from everything around him and then expect that at some magical age he will be able to just not participate in the activity. It has been a journey of almost two years from when my son first saw the porn and he has matured and learned to self-censor through the years. He has also had a lot of set-backs, which is all part of the deal.

As far as the joint analogy. Are you comparing the natural desire to view women and fantasize about women to drugs? I don't feel you can do that b/c drugs aren't a natural desire that all people will get with age/puberty. Curiousity about sex and the opposite gender is 100% natural.

Originally Posted by mommy68

If your son saw the porn already then fine, okay, I agree you handled that part well. But I do not agree with giving him the choice of keeping it or not. Thats just helping him think that at this young age he can look at perverted materials and it doesn't matter to his parents. I would never do that and it doesn't make me a prude either. I can look at porn and it doesn't bother me but I'm 38 yrs old and I've already become a sensible adult. I started looking at it once I became an adult, not at 11 yrs old. The fact is that if I KNEW my child has this material in his room then I would dispose of it. I would talk to him about it as well but its my job to make sure it's out of the reach of my child. He's underage and it's just not appropriate.

Again, not all view it as perverted. I am not sure why you feel it doesn't matter to the parents if he views porn or not. The magazines are a "safe" type of magazine to view, as opposed to the hardcore images from the internet. It could be viewed as a set-down as sorts. You really can't just eliminate the porn and the problem disappears. The desire will still be there, you will just be deluding yourself into thinking it's gone. The fact that it is out of reach in your home doesn't make it out of reach in the rest of the world. I chose to lock down our systems briefly, then open them back up b/c my son needed to learn, in the safety of his own home, how to censor himself so he can do so when he is out without me and my parental locks.

Originally Posted by mommy68

I want my sons to grow up and respect women not be eager to see whats under their clothing. Thats crazy!

Do you really think that your sons will not go through puberty wondering about what is under girls' clothing? It's called puberty and it's a natural progression to wonder about all those things. I can't imagine thinking my children (boys or girls) wouldn't wonder at some point and imagine these things. If you make them feel that imagining a completely normal thing equals disrespecting women, then you are setting them up to feel completely guilty about their natural desires/urges/thoughts.

Originally Posted by mommy68

There are already too many high school boys out there like that now. Whats wrong with wanting to help guide our boys in the right direction. On the one hand women on this board in other threads complain about men wanting sex all the time or how their relationships are based on him wanting sex when the wife doesn't want it or blah, blah. Then a thread like this comes up on how to guide a young innocent boy in the right direction so he doesn't turn out like most men in America and no one sees that what this child is doing at 11 yrs old will most certainly make him who he is sexually when he is in a relationship later on.

Wow. Not even gonna go to the boldest section.

I find it interesting that you correlate a child's sexual relationship later in life with their viewing of porn or not. My husband viewed porn from an early age and had sex at an insanely early age......he is now a married man of almost fifteen years who has no sexual issues at all. I am not sure what you think will happen to your child's sex life later if your child sees porn.

Originally Posted by mommy68

As women we shouldn't just accept the fact that men will be men and help our small children move in to that same line of thinking that so many men for so many generations have believed. They should all be horny and lusting after sex. Thats what men are supposed to what right? I don't think so.

Are you saying boys/girls are going to have a natural desire to explore the opposite gender? Do you not feel it is natural to be curious about the opposite gender and want to explore that curiousity? I don't believe all boys should be "horny and lusting after sex," but I am not blind to the facts that boys and girls (which you seem to not be including) will have this desire and it is pefectly normal and natural.

Originally Posted by mommy68

All boys don't have to be perverts in high school to seem "normal." There are other things besides sex that they can look forward to when they get a little older. Sex is a part of life once we are old enough to experience it and its wonderful and fun - but there are more tactful and respectful ways to teach our tweens about it besides allowing them to choose whether or not to have nasty, misleading pictures to stare at and masturbate to. Give me a break!

So my son is a pervert b/c he is battling a porn addiction? Nice.

I agree there are lots of things to look forward to as they grow, but you have to acknowledge curiousity in the opposite gender is completely natural and normal b/c otherwise your child(ren) will grow up feeling guilty and ashamed of a natural process.

Interesting you correlate viewing the porn with masturbation, that isn't the case in our home. At least not yet. I am sure my sons will masturbate at some point, as well as, my daughter (who already does actually). I also agree sex is when they are old enough, but it isn't going to be me making that decision. As much as I want my children to wait for marriage, they will be the ones making the final decision. I can't stop/make them not have sex when they decide to and I refuse to guilt/shame them into thinking their natural desires are wrong.

Give me a break!

[GoodWillHunter]

Sigh. Mommy68, I really wish you had read the entire thread. I really do. I'm going with Houdini on this one. The assumptions made and the broad generalizations made are hurtful.

As for agreeing with me, well, that's your choice. I feel I gave him some control over a sticky situation.

And, he cried because he wasn't embarassed. He felt icky. I know this. I know my kid. Please don't make assumptions of his emotions. I do know him after all.

[Ms. Mom]

GWH, I know this thread has brought up some deep thoughts here and I appreciate you sharing so much with us. I for one have learned a great deal and have gained some valuable knowledge. I feel that if/when this situation comes up with my son, I can reflect on this thread and make some informed decisions on how I handle it - thank you

This is an important topic for discussion. I too remember finding my dad's playboys at age 8, so this is not a new topic, but I will admit the Internet has made it even more unique.

Let's keep in mind GWH's original post and what she was looking for. If you'd like to expand on the issues of children and porn or what is and is not appropriate, you may wish to open a new thread to address your specific issues

GWH, as a mother, you absolutely know your child best and I feel your handling this very well.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I would trash it if I found it a second time and not say anything to him this time. He will get the hint if he goes back and its not there.

Do you think that would eliminate his desire to view the material?

Originally Posted by mommy68

He's only 11 yrs old and what a child does when really young sticks with them forever. When I was 14 and had sex with an older boy and he abused me for several years has stuck with me through all of my sexual experiences in life. This is because he was my first experience and I feel its that way with all big experiences in life. They stick with you the rest of your life.

I agree big experiences (especially sexual) stick with you in life. I also believe that the experiences can be accepted as past and you can work through the feelings that go with them and move beyond them. Not everyone will react the same way and I try really hard to not project my views of a situation or my reactions to a situation on my kids or decide that b/c I reacted one way, my kids will have the same reaction.

Originally Posted by mommy68

If your son is looking at porn then that is what he will remember regarding women. That's not what real life relationships and sex is about and he will be sadly disappointed when he finds that out one day when he is older. It may also make him grow up thinking women should have perfect bodies and want to do not so nice things in the bedroom just because he saw it in books before he even hit puberty. So whether you realize it or not this stuff will stick with him for the long haul. Get rid of it and don't allow it in your house. You have that right while he is underage.

I think that talking it through and understanding where your child is coming from is the key to making sure they don't view all relationships in that manner. Communication is the way to dispel any ideas he may have about how a relationship should be. My son is very aware women come in all shapes and forms, the porn hasn't clouded that view at all. As far as things in the bedroom....well I can't say what interests he may have in the bedroom once he gets to that point. Frankly, it isn't any of my business. That would be between him and his partner. I will teach him respect for his partner and all other important issues, but they may decide something is appropriate for them that I wouldn't do in a million years.

I am still at a loss as to how you feel that getting rid of it will make the thoughts/images in his head go away. Just b/c he doesn't have direct access doesn't mean he won't still be curious and fantasize.

As far as sticking with you in life. I agree big experiences will, but they can also be talked through and an understanding formed about them to a point where they don't dictate who you are or how you react later in life. I was sexually abused as a teen by my step-father. I have a fairly normal sex life as an adult (I had trust issues at first). I think that all the things we experience make us who we are as adults and I wouldn't be the same person had that not happened. Do I wish it wouldn't have happened? Yes. Can I change what is done? No. Can I learn to heal and move on? Yes. Can I make the decision how I will let it impact my life as an adult? Yes.

Originally Posted by mommy68

I'm curious but are you divorced? Why haven't you mentioned your childs father and how he should handle this type of situation? Your son most likely cried the first time you approached him because he was embarrassed since you are a female. I think at this age it's time for his father to take responsibility in that area. No boy wants to hear from his mom that he shouldn't look at porn. I think he would understand and listen better if a man were talking to him.

Not the OP, but I will give my son's reaction.

My son was more afraid of his father's reaction than mine. The first time I spoke with him he denied having any knowledge. After several minutes, he admitted it was him. He never cried or showed any embarrasment. We had a long talk about what he saw and if he had any questions. We also talked more about puberty and developmental stuff.

He begged me not to tell his dad after I noticed the second incident. Here is why. He had his dad on such a high pedistool that he was afraid his dad would be disappointed and mad. Mind you, his dad didn't react in disappointment/anger the first time. My son saw his father as this strong Christian man who never would have looked at these things. He saw him as a man who would never understand b/c my son knows what the Bible says about lusting after things. My son felt my husband would be disappointed/angry b/c he had failed one of the teachings of God. It really hit me hard that my son felt that he couldn't be honest with his father about his feelings b/c he feared disappointing his dad and God. That hit me really hard. He cried when I told him we had to talk with dad. I also informed my husband that he needed to confess that he had looked at porn at his age (and younger), so our son could see his dad as a man of God who struggled with the same thing and overcame it. He could now see his dad as someone who has been there and come out of it intact.

[hottmama]

Houdini, the heterocentricism in your post was pretty hurtful. Lots of us weren't interested in what was in the opposite sex's pants at puberty. It's NOT "100% natural."

I've been following this discussion up to here, and have discussed it with my partner. He thinks that we should give our children privacy and allow them free access to the internet and porn as preteens, while I worry that they might have unrealistic ideas about sex from watching hardcore porn. I looked at porn as a kid and still do-- I am about as pro-porn as they come and that's as an anarcha-feminist. I wish there was a way to limit my kids to feminist porn (hetero and/or queer) but I think I just have to believe that raising them with feminist values and open conversations about sex will lead them to be responsible, caring sex partners, no matter what they see in porn.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by hottmama

Houdini, the heterocentricism in your post was pretty hurtful. Lots of us weren't interested in what was in the opposite sex's pants at puberty. It's NOT "100% natural."

Point taken. I apologize for coming across the way I did. I will re-phrase.

Once a person hits puberty, they are interested in the gender to which they are attracted. They have a natural desire to explore that desire.

[MamaWindmill]

mommy68, I gotta tell you, I'm disturbed by the repeated use of the word "pervert" and "perverted" in your post. Sex is not bad, masturbation is not bad, and I don't see what on earth is "perverted" about an interest in sex. Yikes!

[Vypros]

Originally Posted by hottmama

I just have to believe that raising them with feminist values and open conversations about sex will lead them to be responsible, caring sex partners, no matter what they see in porn.

Could you explain what you mean by "feminist values"? Like what sorts of values?

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by hottmama

Houdini, the heterocentricism in your post was pretty hurtful. Lots of us weren't interested in what was in the opposite sex's pants at puberty. It's NOT "100% natural."

I've been following this discussion up to here, and have discussed it with my partner. He thinks that we should give our children privacy and allow them free access to the internet and porn as preteens, while I worry that they might have unrealistic ideas about sex from watching hardcore porn. I looked at porn as a kid and still do-- I am about as pro-porn as they come and that's as an anarcha-feminist. I wish there was a way to limit my kids to feminist porn (hetero and/or queer) but I think I just have to believe that raising them with feminist values and open conversations about sex will lead them to be responsible, caring sex partners, no matter what they see in porn.

Ummm. It is 100% natural to be interested in sex around puberty. That being said people who are heterosexual look at it from their point of view. I highly doubt Houdini, or anyone else in this thread were intending to insult anyone with their points of view.

It is fine that you wish to limit your children to feminist porn... whatever that may be because I have honestly never even heard of it until this thread. Call me naive but I figured porn was porn and labeling it anything else was just sub categories.

I don't see how feminist porn can make someone more caring than regular porn.... I don't see how porn can make anyone caring about anything because honestly in my, albeit possibly limited, point of view porn is an instrument for arousal or education on other acts that can be done during sexual relations, regardless of your sexuality.



However I would not expose my heterosexual child to homosexual porn anymore than I would expose my homosexual child to heterosexual porn. They will seek it out on their own when they want to and we will discuss it when it happens. Houdini is obviously coming from a religious background so I don't see how she can place her views any more unoffending than she already did and projecting your beliefs onto hers is just as offensive. In my opinion.


back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

It is fine that you wish to limit your children to feminist porn... whatever that may be because I have honestly never even heard of it until this thread. Call me naive but I figured porn was porn and labeling it anything else was just sub categories.

She said she wishes she could limit her kids. Just because you've never heard of something, or can't possibly have any basis of comparison, doesn't make it ludicrous or ridiculous.

I don't see how feminist porn can make someone more caring than regular porn.... I don't see how porn can make anyone caring about anything because honestly in my, albeit possibly limited, point of view porn is an instrument for arousal or education on other acts that can be done during sexual relations, regardless of your sexuality.

I'm afraid your personal experiences and viewpoint are, actually, too limited, if this is your opinion.

However I would not expose my heterosexual child to homosexual porn anymore than I would expose my homosexual child to heterosexual porn.

Er...why?

They will seek it out on their own when they want to and we will discuss it when it happens. Houdini is obviously coming from a religious background so I don't see how she can place her views any more unoffending than she already did and projecting your beliefs onto hers is just as offensive. In my opinion.

If people projecting their beliefs onto others offends you, I suggest you re-read the first part of your post, in which you dismissively announced that "porn is porn" and stated that you doubted that feminist porn was any different.

[Yoshua]

*decided to send as a PM to not allow derailment. please edit any posts that quote this if you quoted before i editted.

[hottmama]

Wow, Yoshua, Houdini already apologized and I don't think my post was offensive in the least. Just wow. "That being said people who are heterosexual look at it from their point of view," is a pretty accurate definition of heterocentrism. You might not know this, but people who AREN'T hetero don't look at it from our point of view.

And no, I don't plan to give my teenage children porn of any sort, feminist, queer, or mainstream hetero. I said that I wish I could limit them to feminist porn, but of course I can't and I have to just hope that the values I raise them with will influence their behavior more than porn.

To me, feminist values say that sex and gender are separate entities-- that boys can and should do anything that girls can and vice versa-- that women are just as sexual as men and deserve equal pleasure-- that childcare and housework should be shared fairly by all members of that household-- etc. etc. I majored in gender studies in college and feminism has been an important part of my identity since childhood. It influences all that I do.

Feminist porn, IMO, is porn where the penis is not the star of the show-- where women's pleasure is just as important as male pleasure-- where oral sex goes both ways for equal amounts of time-- where women don't HAVE to wear high heels or end up with ejaculate on their faces-- etc. etc. Check out websites like babeland.com or goodvibes.com for more on feminist porn.

[MamaWindmill]

Took it to PM - disregard!

[Yoshua]

pm'ed back lol, lots of edits. i apologize

[Vypros]

Originally Posted by hottmama

-- that boys can and should do anything that girls can and vice versa--

This is the only thing I take issue with. Maybe you can expand on this before I comment just to see if I'm understanding you correctly.

[GoodWillHunter]

I'd rather we not go into nitpicking here, lol. It is obvious to ME what is meant by that phrase.

Thank you for your input, Hottmama. I do appreciate it.

[simonee]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

i was on board with ya till I read this.... it is kinda condescending.


Understanding someone elses sexuality is a very hard thing, and I can attest that I know of NO man that truly understands a womans sexuality. I just assumed that it was just as hard for a woman to truly understand ours.

.

This gave me a sudden flashback to this article from the onion


GWH and others, thanks for teaching me a lot about something I'm bound to run into sooner than I'll be ready for it :

[GoodWillHunter]

OT Hiya, Simonee!!! Oh, yeah, that article is hilarious.

[Ms. Mom]

Simonee -

[simonee]

:smooch: you girls. :