question regarding mdc rules

[Kailey's mom]

Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent, and many other topics from a natural point of view. We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations.



the part I am wondering about is "we are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of CIO, physical punishment, FORMULA FEEDING etc.. Formula feeding is what caught my eye!

My daughter IS formula fed, NOT BY CHOICE!!!!!!!!! For instance if I had a question about formula, I would not be able to voice that concern because it is wrong and in the same catagory as CIO, physical punishment, elective cesarean, circumcision, vacc's. Yes I'm a bit upset:

I WANTED to breastfeed!!!! Kailey is my first baby. She was born a month early are in the NICU, I had eclampsia. The lactation specialist said I COULD NOT breastfeed because of the b/p meds and magsulf drip. I believed her. I was able to come off of them when my daughter was 6 weeks old. I still had plenty of milk and wanted to breastfeed, my daughter was already going through numerous formula switches, throwing up, and having acid reflux. I was then told by her ped that she NEEDS to be on a hypoallergenic diet because she's showing signs of food allergy. I AGAIN believed her, FINALLY I GOT EDUCATED, met with the lactation specialist with WIC, she gave me a hospital grade pump to use, I also took fenugreek and reglan. I pumped and pumped and only got drops. After 3 months of trying to get my milk back and pumping regularly, still only drops. My daughter at 6 weeks old, when I tried to have her latch, would not, she screamed, that was the reason for the appt at 6 weeks, and that was when I was given crap information. I am very SAD!!!! I just really don't feel that formula feeding should be in the same catagory as things that are clearly abusive. I tried!!!!: :

[JessicaS]

The formula aspect is in regard to FF by choice or promoting FF by choice over BF and that is how it is enforced on the boards.

It is not a board wide ban of formula discussion.

Mothering Magazine adheres to the WHO code and the boards reflect that but it is understood that some do not have the luxury of that choice and such discussion is permitted.

There are FF threads in LWAB and you can find a "women who could not BF" group in FYT.

[mackysmama]

This caught my eye. Perhaps it could be reworded to "elective formula feeding," just as it is "elective cesarean." Just a thought.

[SeekingJoy]

I am so sorry you had this experience!

[pumpkinseed]

Originally Posted by mackysmama

This caught my eye. Perhaps it could be reworded to "elective formula feeding," just as it is "elective cesarean." Just a thought.

I completely agree.

[meisterfrau]

I agree too. I didn't FF, but did have a CS, and I can see how I would feel kind of alienated if the word "elective" wasn't in front of that one. to the OP.

[UberMama]

Originally Posted by mackysmama

This caught my eye. Perhaps it could be reworded to "elective formula feeding," just as it is "elective cesarean." Just a thought.

Great idea!

[alegna]

The way the sentence is written it says that we can't discuss the MERITS of ff. So discussing it is fine, just not why it's better.

Or that's my take...

-Angela

[Kailey's mom]

Thanks everyone. It's a really sore subject for me, , I'm actually sorry I wrote that because it was more like a vent. Can I blame it on hormones

[Trillian]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Mothering Magazine adheres to the WHO code and the boards reflect that but it is understood that some do not have the luxury of that choice and such discussion is permitted.

I fully support the adoption and enforcement of the WHO code by the US government, but I have never understood its application to this message board. The WHO code is a guide for government, hospitals, formula manufacturers, and marketers. (Full text.) It does things like require formula labels to provide information about breastfeeding and restricts hospitals from promoting formula. It simply doesn't apply to discussions between individuals, as on this site.

Originally Posted by abimommy

The formula aspect is in regard to FF by choice or promoting FF by choice over BF and that is how it is enforced on the boards.

It is not a board wide ban of formula discussion.

Either not all moderators are aware of this, or it is applied inconsistently. See this thread, for example. The closed post directly states "Please note that MDC does not host discussions on formula."

This post was closed based on "MDC's adherence to the WHO code", but again I would point out that the code applies to the distribution, marketing, and labelling of formula (and other breastmilk substitutes), not the discussion of formula between individuals.

I think that MDC's policy, as stated, is a good one (ie, restricting discussion of the merits of formula feeding). It just pains me when I see other discussions of formula feeding (by necessity) censored, especially when the justification is an incorrect application of the WHO code.

[Starr]

Originally Posted by alegna

The way the sentence is written it says that we can't discuss the MERITS of ff. So discussing it is fine, just not why it's better.

Or that's my take...

-Angela

But I've still seen threads pulled where it was discussed and not in "why formula is better" type of discussion. I also had to FF and have just resolved myself that when I need support or questions regarding formula that MDC is just not the place to look for answers.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Trillian

I fully support the adoption and enforcement of the WHO code by the US government, but I have never understood its application to this message board. The WHO code is a guide for government, hospitals, formula manufacturers, and marketers. (Full text.) It does things like require formula labels to provide information about breastfeeding and restricts hospitals from promoting formula. It simply doesn't apply to discussions between individuals, as on this site.



Either not all moderators are aware of this, or it is applied inconsistently. See this thread, for example. The closed post directly states "Please note that MDC does not host discussions on formula."

This post was closed based on "MDC's adherence to the WHO code", but again I would point out that the code applies to the distribution, marketing, and labelling of formula (and other breastmilk substitutes), not the discussion of formula between individuals.

I think that MDC's policy, as stated, is a good one (ie, restricting discussion of the merits of formula feeding). It just pains me when I see other discussions of formula feeding (by necessity) censored, especially when the justification is an incorrect application of the WHO code.

Article 2. Scope of the Code

The Code applies to the marketing, and practices related thereto, of the following products: breastmilk substitutes, including infant formula; other milk products, foods and beverages, including bottle-fed complementary foods, when marketed or otherwise represented to be suitable, with or without modification, for use as a partial or total replacement of breast-milk; feeding bottles and teats. It also applies to their quality and availability, and to information concerning their use.

Mothering.com is a board owned and operated by Mothering Magazine. Mothering adheres to the WHO Code in its advertising decisions.


While it may be seen as discussion between individuals, Mothering is paying for this site and its operation. If Mothering does not accept advertising for breastmilk substitutes, it would be inconsistant for it to *pay* for discussion promoting breast milk substitutes on its discussion boards.

Some of the support Mothering receives is based on their adherence to the WHO Code and there is a need for consistancy.

[mackysmama]

Originally Posted by abimommy

it would be inconsistant for it to *pay* for discussion promoting breast milk substitutes on its discussion boards.

Agree. But that isn't what the OP is referring to. She isn't asking for a place to "promote breast milk substitues." I think there does need to be a distinction made betweeen people who choose to formula feed and think that is the best option and those who believe that breast milk is best but HAD to use formula or were pressured to and regret that they didn't.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by mackysmama

Agree. But that isn't what the OP is referring to. She isn't asking for a place to "promote breast milk substitues." I think there does need to be a distinction made betweeen people who choose to formula feed and think that is the best option and those who believe that breast milk is best but HAD to use formula or were pressured to and regret that they didn't.

I did say that such discussion was permitted and there is not removal of threads for people who cannot BF, the point when such things are removed is when advantages are being discussed.

I do understand and sympathize the OPs point but rules changes have to go through Peggy so it will be something Jacque and I will need to discuss and then present to her.

[knowerofnada]

Originally Posted by abimommy

The formula aspect is in regard to FF by choice or promoting FF by choice over BF and that is how it is enforced on the boards.

It is not a board wide ban of formula discussion.

Mothering Magazine adheres to the WHO code and the boards reflect that but it is understood that some do not have the luxury of that choice and such discussion is permitted.

There are FF threads in LWAB and you can find a "women who could not BF" group in FYT.

On the contrary, several months ago I saw firsthand a thread yanked because a mom was in a dire situation similar to the OP's, repeatedly stressed she was using formula as a last resort, and posters were rallying around her trying their best to answer her formula concerns. After a few people actually tried to help her with her forumla concerns given the circumstances, the thread was "closed for further review". In NO WAY was anyone ever, ever, EVER supporting formula feeding and discussing non-existent "advantages". They were simply trying to help the poor woman who was in great need of help. The thread never made it back, nor was any kind of reason ever given. It was very disappointing and I PM'd the OP later who was in tears over the fact that this was done.

[sonrisaa29]

I have a question then about Article 1 of the WHO code;

"The aim of this Code is to contribute to the provision of safe and adequate nutrition for infants, by the protection and promotion of breastfeeding, and by ensuring the proper use of breastmilk substitutes, when these are necessary, on the basis of adequate information and through appropriate marketing and distribution"

So if this is true why would Mothering advertisors have issues with FF being discussed on here if its truly warranted? I have seen some people been accused of not really needing to use Formula or worse that anyone who does use formula as a last resort still must not really be trying hard enough.

[lovemysunshine]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

Thanks everyone. It's a really sore subject for me, , I'm actually sorry I wrote that because it was more like a vent. Can I blame it on hormones

[Clarinet]

That's going to need so much moderation, though. I understand discussing formula in adoption or special needs or the NICU and perhaps breastfeeding problems (with strict moderation) but I've seen several threads about "not feeling like pumping anymore" or "just one formula bottle, which is best?" I don't think those should be supported AT ALL. The best thing to do is encourage a woman to keep breastfeeding and supply her with the knowledge and tools necessary to do it. I've also seen "formula's not that bad" being said here, multiple times. And posters who mention nursing alternatives told not to judge. There's where it's leaning towards "formula is just fine" and how do you stop that once it starts?

Then come the questions of who gets to decide who absolutely is formula feeding by necessity and not by choice? If a mother has not met that "criteria," can she participate in formula discussions? How many posts need to be devoted to breastfeeding help before the conversation can change to formula? I don't see any end to the need for interventions in formula discussions.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Clarinet

That's going to need so much moderation, though. I understand discussing formula in adoption or special needs or the NICU and perhaps breastfeeding problems (with strict moderation) but I've seen several threads about "not feeling like pumping anymore" or "just one formula bottle, which is best?" I don't think those should be supported AT ALL. The best thing to do is encourage a woman to keep breastfeeding and supply her with the knowledge and tools necessary to do it. I've also seen "formula's not that bad" being said here, multiple times. And posters who mention nursing alternatives told not to judge. There's where it's leaning towards "formula is just fine" and how do you stop that once it starts?

Then come the questions of who gets to decide who absolutely is formula feeding by necessity and not by choice? If a mother has not met that "criteria," can she participate in formula discussions? How many posts need to be devoted to breastfeeding help before the conversation can change to formula? I don't see any end to the need for interventions in formula discussions.

:



Well put.


-Angela

[EdnaMarie]

I dunno, I have to say, if a woman came here and posted her unplanned, unwanted c-section birth story and the theme was, "at least we're okay", would that thread have to be censored?

Even the WHO estimates that up to 10% of pregnancies may require c-sections, but let's say that number is too high and it's really 1%. And that it's not 5% of women who can't breastfeed, but 1%.

That's still one person in a hundred- and there are thousands of women who come through here, so we're talking at least 40 or 50 women who might come to these forums, or ten or so regularly, that have unfortunately, due to natural causes (we aren't perfect beings), had to use one of these interventions.

Shall these women leave the forums for ivillage or babycenter?

Fine, but Mothering should consider that in this case, they will likely go to areas where they will be advised to repeat c-section and increase formula, which is probably not the intent.

I have never once seen ANYONE here argue for elective c-section, mandatory vaccination, CIO, or formula. Emergency c-sections, formula as the last resort even after milk banks had been sought out, considering separate beds without crying, selective vaccination for at-risk kids- yes. But not what is mentioned in the rules. Seems like kind of a red herring to me, too.

I realize that the natural living / counter-culture community needs a safe place, but is a place safe where there is no questioning? No discussion? No gray areas or continuua? How natural is that?