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post #101 of 136
'open' to mutilating children's genitals, not so much.

i'm sorry that having a forum exist, where cutting off pieces of children's parts is not considered acceptable behavior, bothers some people so very, very much.
post #102 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
'open' to mutilating children's genitals, not so much.

i'm sorry that having a forum exist, where cutting off pieces of children's parts is not considered acceptable behavior, bothers some people so very, very much.
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post #103 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
if he brings it up we should lie, then? the difference is INTACT IS DEFAULT. if a pro-circ person tried to tell my kids it was better, they'd run screaming from the pervert. they know about cutters, you see.

even if they shut up the adults, informed, intact children will be direct, i imagine. i teach my kids to be kind, but kids are kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
You have noticed that this is "The Case Against Circumcision" haven't you?

No-one is going to want to try and give a small boy a complex about his genitals - BUT there is no way that he should be allowed to think that they are natural either - or for that matter that there is something "wrong" with the intact child he is commenting about.

His parents altered his genitals, and he should not be growing up thinking that it's a valid option - especially if he's asking about another person's child. Why should that person have to cover up what his parents did to him? If his parents do not want to explain, maybe they should have left him alone in the first place (especially, as in this case, if they already knew what they were doing was wrong, and refused to listen).

There is also no point in trying to "protect" his feelings over much, you'll probably find that a well educated intact child will be somewhat more direct - and the circumcised one will easily find confirmatory information all over the internet.
You don't get it. The other person simply shouldn't be discussing HIS genital with him. It's not your business.


At 6 years old, it is no one else's business to be talking to him about it. Even if he brings it up.

If he asks about your child, fine. Tell him your child was born that way. Heck, say all babies are. It's true, and you are speaking generally. If he asks why he is different, tell him to ask his parents. If he doesn't relate it to himself, then no reason to start talking about his penis.
post #104 of 136
No I don't get it.

I'll never get it.

How anyone could do that to their child. It's not just any child, it's her best friend's child, whom she fought hard to save, who she knows very well - and now he's about to start asking questions. It's not like she's talking to some random kid off the street. (Although I'd probably still tell him exactly what happens to some children, without making it personal, since he's already asking).

His parents are probably going to lie to him, she cared about him enough to fight for him before he was born, why shouldn't she talk to him now? If he asks, why shouldn't he get the truth? Why should she refuse to say anything to him about circumcision because it will give his parents some awkward questions to answer?
post #105 of 136
does anybody get that 'children are property' sense in this discussion (the same meme that gets other people's genitals cut in the first place)?

children are individuals, people with rights. if i have a relationship with a particular child, no one has the right to require me to lie to them about such a thing. i've already stated earlier in the conversation that the child's feelings are desperately important in this situation.

the parents who choose circumcision while fully informed? those are the feelings that have folks worried. let's at least be honest about that.
post #106 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
His parents altered his genitals, and he should not be growing up thinking that it's a valid option - ......maybe they should have left him alone in the first place
My point is simply who are YOU to decide what another child, not your own, should or should not grow up thinking?


Miriam
post #107 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
does anybody get that 'children are property' sense in this discussion (the same meme that gets other people's genitals cut in the first place)?

children are individuals, people with rights. if i have a relationship with a particular child, no one has the right to require me to lie to them about such a thing. i've already stated earlier in the conversation that the child's feelings are desperately important in this situation.

the parents who choose circumcision while fully informed? those are the feelings that have folks worried. let's at least be honest about that.

How is saying "talk to your mom" lying???
post #108 of 136
I come from different culture so talking about genitals is not a tabu. Not even with kids. Genitals are just one part of the body, like ears or nose.

If a child comes to me with a question, I'll answer it age properly ofcourse. It is quite a difference when talking with 5 years old compared to 15 years old.

But I sure heck will say to a child that all are born with foreskins and why your parents decided to let doctors take it off from you - I have no idea, you should ask your parents.If a teenage boy came to ask - I would also inform him about restoring.

Children are smart. They notice things, they think. And they certainly should not be treated as some property we can shape,cut and mold however we want to.
post #109 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm72873 View Post
My point is simply who are YOU to decide what another child, not your own, should or should not grow up thinking?


Miriam
Because they're part of a wider society and not inside a bubble? Of course it's not up to me to "decide" what they "grow up thinking", but there again, a child's thinking is influenced by a lot more than what it is told by its parents. Plus, I don't think any child should grow up thinking that it's ok to cut pieces off another person's body, for any reason, just because they "own" them (which is basically what you are saying here).

Every time they leave their parent's sphere of influence they are taking in knowledge, are you trying to say that no other adult should impart any knowledge to a child because they might influence what they think?

Or is it just because it's about circumcision that you feel so touchy - of course it is, you're on a board called "The Case Against Circumcision" and trying to defend preventing a child, who is asking what is "wrong" with an intact child, finding out what happened to him. Guess what? He will find out, whether it is the OP who tells him, or an intact child laughing at him because he's missing part of his penis and he comes out with some lame excuse as to why his parents did it to him.

Well I come from a culture that's also repressed about talking about genitals, but not to that extent, sorry. If a kid asks me (or anyone else with an ounce of sense) about anything, they will get told the truth - as long as I know the answer - children are not stupid, and they get a massive sense of betrayal if they find out that someone they know well and trust has been lying to them.
post #110 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm72873 View Post
My point is simply who are YOU to decide what another child, not your own, should or should not grow up thinking?


Miriam
I can understand that, from a personal point of view, you may be the type of person who doesn't want to rock the boat or come close to pushing your ideas; however, to make a statement like the one quotes above is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Do you plan on being the only person (besides your husband) that influences the thinking of your children? If so, you better keep them in the house with no access to the outside world.

In addition, how can anyone effect change without looking to the younger generations?

Should a teacher not ask a child to recycle their soda can if the child's parents are nonrecyclers and think its a waste of time?

Should a neighbor not as a child to pick up their toys from the neighbors lawn if the parents feel a few toys isn't going to kill anyone?

I can think of thousands of examples here, but I think you get the point.
post #111 of 136
hiplease dont get offencive and jump all over me but I really dont see why having the fore skin removed is such a wrong choice I dont feel bad for the choice I made with me boys, I had tem done at borth and they see my sisters little boy naked and they dont really see or care about the difference I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better. I now many moms who have wished they cir years a go with there kids after finding that there little one has an issue and now due to medical issue it as to come off.

Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.
post #112 of 136
Read around this forum a little, and I don't think the question you ask, paula c., would be necessary. But here are some starting points:

1) The foreskin has FUNCTION! It is a sensitive part of the penis which protects the glands and aids in lubrication. (see the stickies and watch the video "the prepuce")

2) circumcision is painful

3) The medical benefits you speak of are myths. Proper care of the intact penis is necessary because forced retraction can cause infections. I dare say the people you know with "medical problems" with their foreskin probably are suffering (if indeed they are and this isn't another "i know a guy" lie) because of improper care.

4) The boy should have a CHOICE. It's HIS penis. HIS! HIS! WHO BETTER to chose between "Do I want the lubrication and protection the foreskin offers me or do I want to cut it off for 'medical reasons' with little proof?" than the owner of the penis?!!!!


This article is a good starting point on educating yourself about this topic:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html
post #113 of 136
Quote:
I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better.
God didn't make him different. You had a piece cut off of him. That would be YOU making him different, not God.
post #114 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsoap View Post
I've changed my mind. I'm feeling... uh, "feisty". I'd tell him:

This is how you and ALL boys look when they are born. Your mom and dad had the end of yours cut off. Ask your mom and dad what happened.

It's the truth and why should you be scorned for telling him the truth about what happened to him by their choice? If his parents freak, it's proof they feel they've got some explaining to do on WHY they did this to him (KWIM?)!
That is what I was going to say I have NO problem getting it out there and watching parents squirm, they need to squirm and feel bad and question what they did. NONE of us want to make a kid uncomfortable, they had no part, which is the problem, but moms and dads should be!! ( uncomfartable)
post #115 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
Yeah, I know what I'm changing my location to.

ETA: Kxsiven gave me a better idea.
I am joining ya!!
post #116 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by paula.c View Post
hiplease dont get offencive and jump all over me but I really dont see why having the fore skin removed is such a wrong choice I dont feel bad for the choice I made with me boys, I had tem done at borth and they see my sisters little boy naked and they dont really see or care about the difference I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better. I now many moms who have wished they cir years a go with there kids after finding that there little one has an issue and now due to medical issue it as to come off.

Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.
Oh jesus. Are you you sure you're English? I expect this rhetoric from Americans but not Brits.

Can we remove your clitoral hood? Would you mind? It really won't make much of a difference. I promise.
post #117 of 136
LOVE your Senior Titile by the way!!
post #118 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by paula.c View Post
hiplease dont get offencive and jump all over me but I really dont see why having the fore skin removed is such a wrong choice I dont feel bad for the choice I made with me boys, I had tem done at borth and they see my sisters little boy naked and they dont really see or care about the difference I tell them that we are all different God made us that way and it was a choice and we choce this choice a to us it was to help us ad them we feel it wass better. I now many moms who have wished they cir years a go with there kids after finding that there little one has an issue and now due to medical issue it as to come off.

Im just trying to understand why you are all so againts Im not judging im just wondering, its a toucy subject just like religin im not jewise but chrisitan and i did it for health reasons nothing more.
Since you are such a strong Christian look up Galatains 5:2

You must not have done a whole lot of deep researching, excatly WHAT health benifits do you know abou that we have missed> just wondering:
post #119 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamastePlatypus View Post
Since you are such a strong Christian look up Galatains 5:2

You must not have done a whole lot of deep researching, excatly WHAT health benifits do you know abou that we have missed> just wondering:
Watch, you know she's going to say penile cancer and UTIs.
post #120 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
God didn't make him different. You had a piece cut off of him. That would be YOU making him different, not God.
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