cut boy asking about whole boy - Page 2

[Yulia_R]

it's so hard to be gentle...

I totally understand how important it is to be gentle for this boy’s sake. But sometimes it’s so hard though. Not that long ago in the mall play area there was a mom with a boy about 4y.o. and a baby (not older than 2 months, I’d guess) sitting next to me. So she took a formula out of her bag, mixed it with water and gave her son to shake it. So he shook it while showing it to me and saying “milk”. I couldn’t help myself saying “No, it’s not milk. It’s formula”. I hope they both (he and his mom) got the message that this is not something tiny babies supposed to eat...
yulia.

[joandsarah77]

Except you don't know why that baby was being given the formula and his mum might be sensitive about it. Some of us really and truly don't make enough milk and any implied criticism, especially early on, like at 2 months and I would have gone and cried. Just something to be aware off.

[jami77]

cut or not..

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner. My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised. We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves. But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice. A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by ~Kira~

Honestly?

I'd answer that some parents cut part of their baby's penis off when they are newborns, but we didn't do that because there's no need to. If he asks further questions about his own status, I'd say he should ask his mom why she did that to him - put the ball in her court.

And when he turns 18, give him the contact info for ARCLAW so he can sue.



- Kira

AWESOME!!!

My BF and I had this talk last night her boy is cut, mine is whole. they just turned two so it is not immedite but it is not far down the road and she knows how STRONG I feel about the anti circ movement. I think it is good for both boys to see and understand it, e will know what so many boys go though and hopefully appreciate that we spared him, and her ds will be normalized to a whole penis from an early age. We both agreed to send the other to the others mama so no feelings are hurt.
Now if it is a random boy and I am not such good friends with their mama, WHOLE other ballgame!

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by jami77

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner. My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised. We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves. But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice. A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?

From the UA:

We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations. We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled.

Did you not see this part, just wondering? If you had truley researched the topic you would see that non of those reasons hold any bearing. I will not go on my tangent about those bogus reasons just giving you a heads up.

[~Kira~]

Originally Posted by jami77

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice.

Please read the UA here before posting again. Mothering does not allow posts supporting RIC.

Furthermore, while it is currently legal to mutilate baby boys in the United States, this certainly does not mean it is ethical, moral or that it does not violate several fundamental human rights.

This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner.

You have been given so much misinformation, I am truly stunned. Please see:

http://www.cirp.org/library

for a complete rebutal of your above myths.

My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised.

I'm truly sorry for him. :

We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves.

Comparing a cosmetic, and damaging surgery with no net medical benefits to taking a medication which may be required during pregnancy is irresponsible and inappropriate.

No baby boy consents to having the most sensitive part on his penis ripped up, crushed, clamped and then amputated. By forcing it on him, this violates his fundamental human right to bodily integrity. It permanently damages him, physically and sexually.

But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice.

Forcing a violent, traumatic and medically unnecessary genital amputation on a baby boy when you'd never consider doing it to a baby girl is what is prejudicial.

A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?

Without activists standing up for the rights of babies when the babys' own parents would force harm on them, this world would be in a worse state than it is now.



- Kira

[jami77]

cut or not..

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner. My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised. We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves. But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice. A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?

[Papai]

Originally Posted by jami77

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner. My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised. We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves. But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice. A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?

All the things that you posted about are false.

1) Circ doesn't decrease the chance of UTIs. And furthermore, baby girls are three times more likely to have UTIs than boys, circed or uncirced. And besides, UTIs are easily treated with antibiotics.

2) Circ doesn't prevent the passing of any disease. That's why the infection rate for HPV is around 80%. If circ was so good at preventing the spread of STDs would the infection rate be that high?

3) Improper cleaning? You're so misinformed it's not even funny.

Anyway, what is confusing about telling a small boy who asks why his penis looks different from his friend, that it's because his parents made the decision to cut off part of his penis? Are you ashamed of what you chose to do to your son?

[MelKnee]

The penis belongs to the boy, NOT the parents. It is no one's choice but the boy and the man he will become. What parts can I cut off my daughter? None! Why?! Because it is mutilation! It is the same with boys. IT IS WRONG! IT IS MUTILATION! Boys deserve the same protection as girls!

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by NamastePlatypus

If you had truley researched the topic you would see that non of those reasons hold any bearing. I will not go on my tangent about those bogus reasons just giving you a heads up.

: That is so very true. I know you wanted best for your kid, but all the reasons that you have mentioned for circ-ing your son are, unfortunately, myths. History of circ is masturbation prevention. That is basically the only reason it has been done on the first place. It has NO health benefits. It can have all sort of complications in your son’s sexual life. And even perfectly preformed circ is still a life long damage, as your son’s glans are dry now (so he’ll have to use lubricant in order to have more or less normal sex or for masturbation) and are loosing it’s sensitivity more and more every passing day as it rubs against underwear. THE MOST SENSITIVE part of his penis has been removed (yes, you read it right, foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis). So, how in the world can it be “definitely the parent's choice”?! :
yulia.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Papai

3) Improper cleaning? You're so misinformed it's not even funny.

There is nothing easier than cleaning an intact penis. Nothing! You (or anyone else for that matter) should NEVER ever retract it (not even a little bit). You just wipe/wash it as if it's a finger and that is all there is to it.
yulia.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by MelKnee

IT IS MUTILATION!

Not quite.

-The baby is being stripped and strapped down.
-His genitals get violated.

Does it sound like mutilation to you? It sure sounds like sexual abuse at the very least to me. But more like rape, really. The only difference is that rape victims usually don't go through even half of that agonizing pain like those poor babies do and rape victims usually still have their entire body afterwards.
yulia.

[Papai]

I know that jami has violated some of the UA but I hope she is allowed to reply in this thread. I'm really curious as to what her response will be.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by jami77

Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. (

Unfortunately, you are correct that it is still a legal "choice" parents can make. However, the whole point of choices is to make good ones. You didn't. Unless you are willing to learn from your mistake, there are better venues to revel in the selfishness/ignorance known as circumcision.

[kxsiven]

How can it be a parent's choice to shape,cut,rip and hurt a baby? Babies are not showdogs. We do not own them. They are human beings who should have the rights of human beings.

What gives a parent right to alter children's genitals.

Because what you chose, your child will never experience life as nature meant him to experience. He and his partner will never have sexlife as nature intented them to have. Your child will carry the consequencies - dried,numb,discoloured glans,vericous veins,skintags, possibly hairy shaft..

How can you defend a choice like that? If you had become mother outside USA, you would probably even thought about circumcision.

It is sad that the Victorian obsession about the evils of masturbation is still hurting babies and robbing their possibility for normal life.

[Microsoap]

jami77:

Welcome. If you stick around, you'll hopefully learn a lot about the severe ethical violation and severe life-long damaging effects and come to the logical conclusion that RIC (routine infant circumcision) is MGM (male genital mutilation). You'll also get the sense from all the members here that isn't the parents' choice, it's the male's choice, the owner of the body!

We do not judge, here. We educate. Staying silent makes the cycle of abuse (and it is abuse!) continue.

[Lula's Mom]

I'm going to leave jami77's post up because so far, posters have been relatively calm and respectful in their attempts to educate. PLEASE continue to respond in this way, as we have an opportunity here to share the truth about circumcision with someone who is new to our community and has, unfortunately, only been exposed to the myths surrounding this issue. I ask that you think about the way you are conveying your message before you hit 'Send' (you know I will only have to remove your post if you violate the UA!)

jami77, welcome to Mothering.com. Others beat me to it, but I will say again that we are an Attachment Parenting/Natural Family Living community. We uphold a position against circumcision because it is an excruciating, damaging cosmetic surgery which does lifelong harm to a child who does not consent to it. It violates his human rights, his right to a whole, intact body.

I know that you did what you thought was best to protect him from future illness, but the things you said above are not true. I, too, used to believe those myths, since that was all I heard growing up in the United States. But I've learned the truth and now know that circumcision is wrong, as well as unnecessary.

Please read through the stickies at the top of the forum. I think you will begin to understand why Mothering.com takes this position.

This website may also be helpful as you begin your journey toward understanding.

[Yulia_R]

Unfortunately, I don’t think that jami77 will be back. Not many people have the carriage of facing such a horrible painful truth. As every mother she loves her baby and the pain of knowing how bad he got hurt because of her choice can be unbearable. For some people it’s easier to just stay ignorant and pretend that nothing bad had happened, I guess. I personally just don’t get people like that but I have met plenty of them.

I have checked her posts and there are just two of them. In her thread she isn’t happy that her 6 weeks old can’t fall asleep without a boob in his mouth and wouldn’t take a pacifier : . Honestly, I don’t think this is a type of a mom who will want to learn the truth about her mistakes…no potential here, IMO…
yulia.

[Lula's Mom]

Be that as it may, let's refrain from casting suspicion and making assumptions. There is potential for everyone to learn a better way of parenting. I am quite sure I have been disabused of many notions since I first became a mother... I do hope that jami will rejoin the conversation.

[NamastePlatypus]

Originally Posted by MelKnee

The penis belongs to the boy, NOT the parents. It is no one's choice but the boy and the man he will become. What parts can I cut off my daughter? None! Why?! Because it is mutilation! It is the same with boys. IT IS WRONG! IT IS MUTILATION! Boys deserve the same protection as girls!

Originally Posted by Papai

All the things that you posted about are false.

1) Circ doesn't decrease the chance of UTIs. And furthermore, baby girls are three times more likely to have UTIs than boys, circed or uncirced. And besides, UTIs are easily treated with antibiotics.

2) Circ doesn't prevent the passing of any disease. That's why the infection rate for HPV is around 80%. If circ was so good at preventing the spread of STDs would the infection rate be that high?

3) Improper cleaning? You're so misinformed it's not even funny.

Anyway, what is confusing about telling a small boy who asks why his penis looks different from his friend, that it's because his parents made the decision to cut off part of his penis? Are you ashamed of what you chose to do to your son?

Originally Posted by ~Kira~

Please read the UA here before posting again. Mothering does not allow posts supporting RIC.

Furthermore, while it is currently legal to mutilate baby boys in the United States, this certainly does not mean it is ethical, moral or that it does not violate several fundamental human rights.




You have been given so much misinformation, I am truly stunned. Please see:

http://www.cirp.org/library

for a complete rebutal of your above myths.




I'm truly sorry for him. :



Comparing a cosmetic, and damaging surgery with no net medical benefits to taking a medication which may be required during pregnancy is irresponsible and inappropriate.

No baby boy consents to having the most sensitive part on his penis ripped up, crushed, clamped and then amputated. By forcing it on him, this violates his fundamental human right to bodily integrity. It permanently damages him, physically and sexually.





Forcing a violent, traumatic and medically unnecessary genital amputation on a baby boy when you'd never consider doing it to a baby girl is what is prejudicial.




Without activists standing up for the rights of babies when the babys' own parents would force harm on them, this world would be in a worse state than it is now.



- Kira

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

: That is so very true. I know you wanted best for your kid, but all the reasons that you have mentioned for circ-ing your son are, unfortunately, myths. History of circ is masturbation prevention. That is basically the only reason it has been done on the first place. It has NO health benefits. It can have all sort of complications in your son’s sexual life. And even perfectly preformed circ is still a life long damage, as your son’s glans are dry now (so he’ll have to use lubricant in order to have more or less normal sex or for masturbation) and are loosing it’s sensitivity more and more every passing day as it rubs against underwear. THE MOST SENSITIVE part of his penis has been removed (yes, you read it right, foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis). So, how in the world can it be “definitely the parent's choice”?! :
yulia.

Originally Posted by kxsiven

How can it be a parent's choice to shape,cut,rip and hurt a baby? Babies are not showdogs. We do not own them. They are human beings who should have the rights of human beings.

What gives a parent right to alter children's genitals.

Because what you chose, your child will never experience life as nature meant him to experience. He and his partner will never have sexlife as nature intented them to have. Your child will carry the consequencies - dried,numb,discoloured glans,vericous veins,skintags, possibly hairy shaft..

How can you defend a choice like that? If you had become mother outside USA, you would probably even thought about circumcision.

It is sad that the Victorian obsession about the evils of masturbation is still hurting babies and robbing their possibility for normal life.