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post #41 of 136
Jami77:

I recommend educating yourself on the myths of circumcision. You can see all the stuff you posted debunked Here:http://www.coloradonocirc.org/myths.php

There are links available to talk on the topics.


And I agree that you are not educated on the care of the intact penis. 85% of the world is intact. Trust me, they aren't all running for circumcisions to aid them in being clean Until the foreskin becomes retractable, all you need to do is wipe it like a finger...sure as hell beats out vaseline, gauze and penis manipulation that parents of circed children deal with. After that, intact care is as simple as "retract, rinse, replace." Seems to me the "room for error" is much higher on the circumcised side, what with infection risk and all that wound work.

It takes my husband just as much time to wash his penis/parts as me washing my vulva. TMI maybe, but there you have it...and, trust me, there is no "oh wait, let me make sure I put it back right" going on!
post #42 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
Not quite.
Yes, quite.

mutilate
2 entries found for mutilate.

Main Entry: mu·ti·late
Pronunciation: 'myü-t&-"lAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing
Etymology: Latin mutilatus, past participle of mutilare, from mutilus truncated, maimed
1 : to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect <the child mutilated the book with his scissors>
2 : to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of : CRIPPLE
post #43 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieFaye View Post
If it were me, I'd give the six year old just enough information to start thinking it over for himself.

"What's up with his penis?"
"Why, nothing at all. He's normal."
"But, uh, why does it look like that."
"That's the way normal penises look. All baby boys are born looking like that."
I think this has been the best suggestion. It's gentle and accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelKnee View Post
Please, be gentle with him. When my intact 6yo ds found out about circ, he was horrified. The look on his face was awful. I can only imagine how a cut boy would take the news.
I agree the child we are talking about is 6 and as much as some of us would love to put the mom in the hot seat that did this to him, he is the most important person in the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jami77 View Post
Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice.
His body, His choice
post #44 of 136
Thread Starter 
here is my responds to my original question i have tried to talk to her and it is like talking to a wall she was in the room watching her son creep closser and closser as soon as he seen my ds was naked as he got closer his eyes were getting bigger and his mouth dropped open i was just waiting for him to ask but he chickened out... she did this to her boy even tho i tried to talk to her about it i dont even know if she thinks it is wrong or right to do it even now i dont she dont talk about it she shuts down that is the only hope i have is that she knows now it is wrong but this is what i was told when her ds was a nb "i dont care i am not the one paying for it if they want to pay for it then it is fine with me" i asked why do they want it done "my stepdad wants him to look like him" and i say when and what the hell is he doing naked around him? how is he going to see it? i got no answer but we were living together at the time she gave up on bf also it was #2 she went to 11 months with #1 ..... i will admit it she is very sibmissive at times me i dont do what i am told to do
post #45 of 136
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jami77 View Post
Whether or not to circumcise a son is definitely the parent's choice. This website is suppose to advocate mothers, and this mother could be thinking about the increased risk of penile cancer, infections from improper cleaning or failure to replace the foreskin to its position, and the increased chances of her son transfering disease or UTI's to his future partner. My dh and I discussed this issue at length and yes, my ds is circumcised. We all make choices that can turn out to be detrimental to our kids, (like that glass of wine while pregnant, or taking a medication)and choices that perhaps they wouldn't choose for themselves. But alienating a friend, not to mention confusing a small boy, because they don't share your views seems to me a form of prejudice. A casual conversation between friends is all that is needed-"Your son saw my son's privates, and has questions. How can we explain?" Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies? You can be an advocate , supporter, activist for not curcumcising, but to judge everyone else?
i hope you are still here lurking about so here is my responds to this post please learn fact from lies they cant make money off of foreskin if there is none to make millions from...cleaning? sorry how hard is it for you to clean your clitoris? do you know that all bays start out with girl parts then grow and change in to a boy woman have a hood on their clit just like a man has a foreskin they both have a job to do and should not be messed with unless there is a problem as long as a baby is healthy they should be left as that...please dont match meds and wine with removing something that can never be put back...no sorry we all are not in this together if you seen my dd at the park and asked why she is missing her pinkie and i said well it has no use that i can see so it is beter so i had it cut off you would think i am crazy well we dont go around cutting things off out babys boy or girl they are healthy that is the way it should be if he wants it done then let him make this choice it is even beter to have it done when he is older parts are bigger less chance of taking off to much he goes under GE and then gets pain meds while he heals and the best part of it is that HE GOT TO CHOOSE TO HAVE THIS DONE TO HIMSELF.........................
post #46 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieFaye View Post
If it were me, I'd give the six year old just enough information to start thinking it over for himself.

"What's up with his penis?"
"Why, nothing at all. He's normal."
"But, uh, why does it look like that."
"That's the way normal penises look. All baby boys are born looking like that."

Let those mental wheels start turning, and let him ruminate over what happened to him. Then, guide him to ask his mother, if he starts asking about himself. Then, when he comes back with the myths, the groundwork of what's normal has already been laid.
That is insensitive and awful and I hope that the OP dosen't take this advice. All that six year old boy needs is to get it in his head that a part of him isn't 'normal'.

I think the 'all baby boys are born looking like that' is honest and right on. I would add that some parents decide to have an operation after the babies born and send the kidlet to his mom for further questioning.

You dont want the kid to feel like some freak just to get your point and activism across. I really think telling little kids that this is "NORMAL" and he isn't uhh, "NORMAL" is really harmful. He'll come to that conclusion of what was done to him, eventually.
post #47 of 136
Jani77, many of us don't consider human rights to be the parents decision. Circ is a human rights violation. If this baby was a girl - the parents would be jailed.
post #48 of 136
I know this may sound like an extreme, but have you considered the possibility that he's been sexually abused. I say this because our minister's foster sons was beyond curious whenever he would go to another house that had a small child/baby. He'd lurk around diaper changes. Sadly, it escalated, and if he was ever left alone with one, he'd touch him.

I hope your experience is just his curiosity about the physical differences of the two penises and not him wanting your son sexually. Very sadly, parents must protect their children from multiple dangers in life.
post #49 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsoap View Post
I know this may sound like an extreme, but have you considered the possibility that he's been sexually abused...
Of course he was abused! He was circ'd...
post #50 of 136
There is nothing unusual about little children being curious about naked bodies or babies, or even wanting to touch. Now if you were talking about a 10 year old being that curious and wanting to touch an infant in a sexual way then that is a totally different thing. There is nothing in the OP that indicates anything other than totally normal curiousity though.
post #51 of 136
I'm torn- there's what ought to be said, and the usual candy-ass pander to the feelings of unrepentant circers, and somewhere in the middle of all his mess not just the feelings of ONE boy, but many- the intact ones the circ'd boy will speak to, extended family members, one day his own children.

I hope everyone that concerned that the feelings of the circ'd boy are protected (thereby giving a pass to those who cut him) are equally as vigilant to protect the feelings of the intact boys out there in this society, that have heard everything from 'dirty' to 'shar-pei' and in-between.

I'd play it by ear; what else can you do? I wouldn't hide the crime for the perps (that's what's been keeping this abomination alive), but my words would be tempered by compassion. I can't say what I'd say. Kids are people like anybody else, and most have a low tolerance for adult bs. They can probably handle truth spoken kindly, more than the usual 'grownup voice' lies.
post #52 of 136
Quote:
Kids are people like anybody else, and most have a low tolerance for adult bs. They can probably handle truth spoken kindly, more than the usual 'grownup voice' lies.
ITA, which is why in general ( not knowing this particular child ) I think it's fine to say that the intact baby has a normal penis. I don't think the average 5-6 year old is going to automatically go OMG so that means MINE is abnormal. With all the adult associated assumptions of "abnormal".
post #53 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
ITA, which is why in general ( not knowing this particular child ) I think it's fine to say that the intact baby has a normal penis. I don't think the average 5-6 year old is going to automatically go OMG so that means MINE is abnormal. With all the adult associated assumptions of "abnormal".
I agree. At some point, the circ'ed boy is going to find out that circ'ing is not 90% in the US anymore; only about 60% of boys his own age are. At some point, he's going to find out that 85% of the world population has not been circ'ed. At some point, he's going to find out that not circ'ing is the norm across the world. Why not make that moment an "aha" moment, instead of an "eeww" moment?

It's just as important that the intact boys hear that there is nothing wrong with them. They don't have "ugly" penises. Nothing was done to their perfectly healthy, normally-functioning tissue. Acting like intactness is the most natural, normal thing is what 85% of the world's mothers do. Why not American mothers as well?
post #54 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieFaye View Post
I agree. At some point, the circ'ed boy is going to find out that circ'ing is not 90% in the US anymore; only about 60% of boys his own age are. At some point, he's going to find out that 85% of the world population has not been circ'ed. At some point, he's going to find out that not circ'ing is the norm across the world. Why not make that moment an "aha" moment, instead of an "eeww" moment?

It's just as important that the intact boys hear that there is nothing wrong with them. They don't have "ugly" penises. Nothing was done to their perfectly healthy, normally-functioning tissue. Acting like intactness is the most natural, normal thing is what 85% of the world's mothers do. Why not American mothers as well?
:
post #55 of 136
I figured jami would run and hide. What a shame.
post #56 of 136
I noticed in Jami's post that she has this line:

Quote:
Good grief, aren't we in this together, ladies?
In her post, she uses this line to question us jumping on other mother/parents for their decisions. However, maybe this line sheds a little light into the situation. If we REALLY are all in this together, does that not include the child/children as well? Are parenting decisions made by a little click on parents who are all in it together but not considering the children?

Am I making any sense here? Basically, Jami wonders why we are "abandoning" other moms who we are suppose to be "all in mothering together" with. However, she herself has forgotten the most important piece of the puzzle: the child.

The child should certainly be in on the decision to have a cosmetic surgery.
post #57 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemizflava View Post
here is my responds to my original question i have tried to talk to her and it is like talking to a wall she was in the room watching her son creep closser and closser as soon as he seen my ds was naked as he got closer his eyes were getting bigger and his mouth dropped open i was just waiting for him to ask but he chickened out... she did this to her boy even tho i tried to talk to her about it i dont even know if she thinks it is wrong or right to do it even now i dont she dont talk about it she shuts down that is the only hope i have is that she knows now it is wrong but this is what i was told when her ds was a nb "i dont care i am not the one paying for it if they want to pay for it then it is fine with me" i asked why do they want it done "my stepdad wants him to look like him" and i say when and what the hell is he doing naked around him? how is he going to see it? i got no answer but we were living together at the time she gave up on bf also it was #2 she went to 11 months with #1 ..... i will admit it she is very sibmissive at times me i dont do what i am told to do
I would have offered to pay her NOT to.
post #58 of 136

my reply...

To the "wolves"
on this page, I haven't replied as of yet b/c I have been busy being a "horrible" mother as some of you accused me of, and helping my husband with his mother's estate business, as she has just passed. You are all so sensitive to others!
And I did read the rules of posting; its MY opinion. The decision my husband and I made was not ROUTINE and if I hadn't stood by my decision would I have written it here? Some of your replies have contained nothing but venom and disdain.
When my friend said she found a website that agreed with many of my ideas about childrearing, I was so excited. I wasn't aware that to participate and be "accepted" you had to agree with everyone else, on every issue.
I might one day regret my decision, and yeah, my son might want to "sue" me as one of you suggested so kindly(again, about a woman you don't personally know). If he does, it will be between my son a I.
I am a nurse, I am educated, I did my research. I have seen first hand some things that led me to my decision, which I won't bother typing, b/c none of you would be receptive to listening to my different views.
And this will probably be my "THIRD" and last post because this is a sorority I don't think I want to be a part of. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL.
post #59 of 136
1) we were not being insensitive. And we especially weren't being insensitive to your situation as we do not have ESP.

Quote:
I am a nurse, I am educated, I did my research. I have seen first hand some things that led me to my decision, which I won't bother typing, b/c none of you would be receptive to listening to my different views.
2) "different views?" more like lies and misconceptions. The facts are out there for whoever wants to read them. Is it harder to clean? no. Is it more prone to disease? no. Does circumcision hurt the boy? yes. Does the foreskin have many functions? yes. etcetc

I'd love to hear about some of your personal experiences so we can educate about the "problems." Many doctors think you are suppose to retract the foreskin before its time, which leads to infections. Perhaps some of your first hand experience was because of this. we would love to talk and educate about these facts.

You might want to ask yourself "why do I see these problems when the rest of the world does not have them." As an educated mom, as you state you are, you would be able to educate yourself in the proper care of the intact penis (which is VERY easy! much easier than gauze and blood and all that!). We could help you with this. Then you could protect your son both from genital mutilation and improper care.
post #60 of 136
what, the 'hands off children's genitals' sorority? works for me.
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