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How inappropriate of me would this be? - Page 3

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
but for crying out loud don't hand her a piece of paper insinuating she's mutilating her child when she's in the middle of opening baby gifts.
I think the OP stated more than once that wasn't what she was planning on doing.
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I'd try harder- get good info to dad. Talk more. Something.

-Angela
: There is no reason why you have to be pushy or bring up the info DURING the baby shower. I have stayed late to baby showers to talk personally with the mom and dad before and I've never found anyone to be unwilling to listen with an open mind to what I've had to say. In this case I would give the info to be opened later, but I would absolutely, without a doubt give the info. The Mothering articles are online and I have used those with much success in the past

If you can at all find out (subtley and compassionately) WHY the father wants the son circumcised beforehand so that you can tailor the material to his specific concerns then I would do that as well... I made the mistake of going on one time about the fact that there are no medical reasons and that the rates here are below 30% when the mother I was speaking to just thought intact penises looked "gross" and by the time I found that out, I had lost my chance to effectively deal with her specific reason :

Best wishes! Please keep trying Cosmetic surgery is absolutely a choice, and it's a choice that the owner of the body in question should be allowed to make when he comes of age to do so. If the mom was getting her infant daughter breast implants to "look like her" then everyone would be outraged... Little boys deserve no less consideration and shouldn't have fewer rights to their own bodies just because they happened to be born male.

love and peace.
post #43 of 81
Please do everything you can to protect this baby. And I realize circ is still a parental choice but it shouldn't be and at the very least parents should be truly informed about what it is. Since no one else will tell them I urge you to!
What's more tacky/inappropriate than cutting off parts of a baby's genitals!?
post #44 of 81
I wouldn't do it at the baby shower. That would be completely inappropriate, IMO.

If you feel that you *have* to give them more anti-circ information and you feel there is actually a chance they will listen, I would take the father aside privately and give him the envelope, but definitely not during the baby shower.
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie37 View Post
I'm also of the opinion that it would be inappropriate. I also have a problem just believing some of that, for instance that it causes babies to go into comas (neither of my sons did) ,has a 100% complication rate (none w/ my boys) and causes "inferior sexual relations, which leads to increased divorce rates, increased violence, increased exposure to sexually transmitted diseases, and contributes to impotence, especially after age 40" . Just doesn't seem very plausable, and frankly, alot of people might find some of that ridiculous.
I hate to say it but your boys did suffer a complication. You consented to have a sensitive and functioning part of their genitals removed. The complication is that they will live the rest of their lives missing a part of their bodies. Another complication is, they had no choice in the matter. Another complication that could arise is that one day, they will be terribly angry with you for consenting to their mutilation.

To the OP: I hope you'll have some last minute luck to change their minds. I'd wait until after the shower since it's likely they wont pay attention to you seriously during all the festivities.
post #46 of 81
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone one. Each and every response had something valid to offer, and I appreciate it!

I agree, baby shower isn't the place. I only thought of that because it is the soonest I will see them. We are a pretty spread apart family and I hadn't seen them for awhile. I was planning on gently broaching the subject at the original shower (I do always make a point of trying to encourage new parents that I know, whether it is friends, family or co-workers to read up on circ and know that it isnt' the only option) but then the Emergency C-section happened. When I asked her about it on the phone when she called me from the hospital she told me the doc would do it before discharge so I don't believe it has been done already.

The reason I was going to try to get info to the dad was because my cousin (the new mommy) told me she had pretty much left the decision up to the daddy as he knew more about it than she did. I'm sure they probably have just never been exposed to the idea that maybe you shouldn't circ and he and all the boys in his family are circed so it was probably a no-brainer decision for him.

I agree, that quiz isn't the best thing to hand out. I just happened to see it as a link from someone else's sig here yesterday, which is what actually triggered me to start this post. There are other, better pieces of info out there.

Rest assured, I will not spoil the baby shower (as it is we are unexpectly going out of town, I can't even make the shower now) and will try to gently pass some good info about circ along to the father and ask him to just take a bit of time and educate himself before the day comes to circ the baby. It sounds like they have time.

Again all, thank you for your sincere responses,
Tracy
post #47 of 81
I think that her Dh may be offended at your gesture but I think that you should probably give him the info anyway. I know that sometimes men can be really touchy when it comes to circumcision. When I was pg with dd dh said that if the baby was a boy that he would definitley want to circ, more than anything because he is circ'd and he felt that our son would feel something was wrong with him if he was different than papa. After a few weeks debate with my dh I got him to see the other side of the issue and even though we had a girl and it didn't come up dh now feels that circ is unessecary and we will not circ if we have a boy this time. That said dh is very glad that he himself is circ'd but he now thinks that is cruel to do to a baby and that it should be left up to boys to decide for themselves if later in life they want to cut off part of their genitalia.

Sometimes with a little education people can make better informed decisions. So go ahead and share the knowledge. I think that sometimes men just want their sons to be like them and they don't really think about the procedure itself. Not all men but some. Good luck!
post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by twilight girl View Post
:

A baby shower is not the venue, and very likely you would only alienate them, everyone else, and solidify their decision to go ahead with the circ. If you really feel compelled to go into battle on this one, I strongly suggest you pick a different tactic, time and pick your information carefully.
Did you *READ* what she was planning? A sealed envelope with a name on it. No discussion. No disruption of the shower.

-Angela
post #49 of 81
When will people realize it's that boys penis, if HE wants it cut, HE will get it cut.
post #50 of 81
I'm more of a lurker here...

There is NOTHING I hate more than when my older sister comes back at me with the statement "Why did you do it THAT way??" I'm an intelligent person, and am responsible for my own decisions. I don't need to answer to her for how or why I do things the way that I choose to do them. Your cousin AND her husband need love and support at this time, NOT your judgement, and they don't need someone second-guessing their parental decisions, regardless of what your opinion is. They (as a family) are going through a lot. Even a message put in a sealed envelope to be read later is inappropriate. You've made your case - unless you want to really alienate them, leave them alone.
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimom View Post
I'm more of a lurker here...

There is NOTHING I hate more than when my older sister comes back at me with the statement "Why did you do it THAT way??" I'm an intelligent person, and am responsible for my own decisions. I don't need to answer to her for how or why I do things the way that I choose to do them. Your cousin AND her husband need love and support at this time, NOT your judgement, and they don't need someone second-guessing their parental decisions, regardless of what your opinion is. They (as a family) are going through a lot. Even a message put in a sealed envelope to be read later is inappropriate. You've made your case - unless you want to really alienate them, leave them alone.
Actually the OP hasn't really made her case already, she only asked what they were planning on doing WRT circumcision and mentioned that it wasn't necessary. That poor baby boy needs love and support right now as well - he's been through a lot in his short life! The OP is not going to be going at them with judgement, she will be going to them with love and concern for their child and I'm sure that she will handle the situation tactfully and gently.

What is inappropriate is for parents to make the decision to cosmetically chop a healthy, functioning piece of their child's genitals off without that child's consent. If parents do insist on making that decision then they need to be as fully informed as possible so that they will not regret the decision later when they learn the truth about what they did. I know so many mothers who would give their right arm to have had a cousin who would have given them more information about circumcision before they made that irreversible decision for their son.

If I was about to make this life-changing decision for my son without all the facts, I would consider it a grave disservice to my family to NOT be told more of the facts. I'm not saying that the cousin and her dh don't have all the facts, but if they do have all the facts, then they have already read the information that the OP will be presenting them with and it won't come as any surprise to them.

How can it hurt anyone to have MORE information about an elective cosmetic surgery that has many risks - including the (very very small) risk of death? It is inappropriate to not inform people of these risks before (heaven forbid) they find out the hard way :

love and peace.
post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimom View Post
I'm more of a lurker here...

There is NOTHING I hate more than when my older sister comes back at me with the statement "Why did you do it THAT way??" I'm an intelligent person, and am responsible for my own decisions. I don't need to answer to her for how or why I do things the way that I choose to do them. Your cousin AND her husband need love and support at this time, NOT your judgement, and they don't need someone second-guessing their parental decisions, regardless of what your opinion is. They (as a family) are going through a lot. Even a message put in a sealed envelope to be read later is inappropriate. You've made your case - unless you want to really alienate them, leave them alone.
I would rather "alienate" that have them not know the consequences of their mutilating actions.
post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya View Post
What is inappropriate is for parents to make the decision to cosmetically chop a healthy, functioning piece of their child's genitals off without that child's consent. If parents do insist on making that decision then they need to be as fully informed as possible so that they will not regret the decision later when they learn the truth about what they did. I know so many mothers who would give their right arm to have had a cousin who would have given them more information about circumcision before they made that irreversible decision for their son.

If I was about to make this life-changing decision for my son without all the facts, I would consider it a grave disservice to my family to NOT be told more of the facts. I'm not saying that the cousin and her dh don't have all the facts, but if they do have all the facts, then they have already read the information that the OP will be presenting them with and it won't come as any surprise to them.

How can it hurt anyone to have MORE information about an elective cosmetic surgery that has many risks - including the (very very small) risk of death? It is inappropriate to not inform people of these risks before (heaven forbid) they find out the hard way :
:
post #54 of 81
You are all entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to mine. The original poster was asking for opinions, and I was just giving my two cents. There was a time and place for informing her cousin of her views, but I still don't believe now is that time or place. Just put yourself in that woman's shoes...someone telling you what you should or shouldn't do to your child, when that may not be how you or your DH believe. I'm sticking with the fact that they need support right now, not someone forcing views on another.
post #55 of 81
Educating isn't telling someone what to do. And a child's right to bodily integrity trumps the parents' comfort.

If I was ignorant about an unnecessary surgery I was going to put my preemie through damn right I'd want someone to educate me about it. While they still had the chance.
post #56 of 81
And I am telling you I could NEVER EVER support someone who chose a medically unnecessary circumcision. It is not like we are talking about sling vs. stroller here or pacifier vs. not. It is a unchangeable, potentially life damaging not to mention totally unnecessary cosmetic surgery on a vulnerable child's most vulnerable parts.
post #57 of 81
i've been following this thread now and am really surprised at the number of posters saying to just drop the issue...i wonder how the comments would be different if the issue were not male circumsicion but female?
post #58 of 81
Just giving it to her would be much better then in a envelope at the party, as if it were a card, ya know? I think you could give it to her though, casually. The best thing to say, is that many men want their foreskin, but were circ'ed as a baby. And that it helps a man hold off during sex, ya know, premature ejaculation? Tell her dh that, that may do the trick! That there are many pleasurable nerve endings there, who would want that cut off instead of experience them fully? If the Dad wants it to look like his, Are they really going to have them side by side? And just that letting him decide is the best route, because once done, it can't be undone. Many grown men don't give a hoot what their parents think about weather they should have their foreskin or not.
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimom View Post
Just put yourself in that woman's shoes...someone telling you what you should or shouldn't do to your child, when that may not be how you or your DH believe.
I have no problem telling everyone and their brother that they shouldn't cut chunks off their sons' penises.

-Angela
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby View Post
Educating isn't telling someone what to do. And a child's right to bodily integrity trumps the parents' comfort.

If I was ignorant about an unnecessary surgery I was going to put my preemie through damn right I'd want someone to educate me about it. While they still had the chance.
: If I circumcised a son (or had any unnecessary surgery done on my child - especially a preemie) and later found out that someone had withheld important information from me because they were worried about my feelings, I would be very angry.

Perhaps you should read this thread and reflect upon how many of these mamas wouldn't be feeling terrible guilt about their son(s)' circumcisions had someone taken the time to inform them of what they were about to do and hadn't had such a "regard" for their feelings.

I know at least six women personally IRL who would give almost anything to have had someone give them more information about circumcision before making a decision that they and their sons will have to live with for the rest of their lives. Because of those women and the fact that at least two of them were "spared" from knowing the facts by people (like trimom) who were close to them and believed that they were being "kind" by withholding critical information from them, I will keep educating and advocating education for any parent who considers circumcising their child.

I'm speaking from some of my good friends' personal experiences here - friends who were in the OP's cousin's shoes and who wish someone had given them an information packet. Women who wish they could go back in time and tell their past selves what they know now. Women who live with regret that they allowed this to happen to their sons. One woman whose son has already perpetuated this cycle of violence on her grandsons even though she did her best to try and talk him out of it :

I educate about circumcision mostly for the sons, but I educate about circumcision also for the mothers' sake. No woman deserves to be misled about an elective surgery just to later find out that she made a huge mistake.

If the doctors will not educate women about this issue (and why would they? They make money off the procedure...) then the responsibility falls upon us as friends and relatives to bring the other side to light.

I also wonder if the comments would be different if this was a baby girl or if the parents wanted to chop off another healthy, functional, important piece of the child's anatomy :

love and peace.
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