Urgent help needed for friendUPDATE#19

[steph66]

hi all!
I have a friend who is nursing her 13 month old daughter. she is going to have to be put on meds and treatments where she cannot nurse her. she needs to wean her almost immediately and has no idea how to go about it. this little nursling loooves to nurse and it is going to be soo hard. i don't know how to help her. she is so upset about this. has anyone had to wean abruptly? do you have any advice or experiences to share? should she just stop cold turkey? please help if you can.

ETA: both of our dds are much the same. hers won't take a sippy cup very often and is not on enough solid foods. she can start upping the amt of food she gives her and hope that it feels her up more and try to get her to drink more sippy drinks too. should she put her on a formula of sorts? i know they are bad and all but this kid needs nutrients and more cals somehow right?

[MomToKandE]

OK, standard first question: has she checked the Medications and Mothers Milk book or talked to an LC? Forgive me if the answer is yes, I'm sure you know how often people get bad advice about medication requiring weaning when it really doesn't... just wanted to make sure this base was already covered.

If her dd isn't taking many solids I'd think some kind of formula might be needed in place of breastmilk. I don't know anything about infant formulas vs. "follow-up" formulas though.

[steph66]

thanks for replying. i completely understand and yes she has checked and these meds are definately bad for a nursing babe. the nursling doesnt take in alot of solids but i'm not sure how much the average 13month old eats though. she is offered at least two meals a day and usually eats at least a few bites at the meals. is this average?

[SleepyMamaBear]

my question is MUST she take the meds and treatments? does she REALLY REALLY need them, and are there alternatives to them that are more nursing friendly?
i think weaning a 13mo cold turkey or suddenly would be VERY traumatic for both your friend and her sweet nursling.

my mother had to wean me suddenly (was given a week) at 17 months so she could have her thyroid radiated. then she couldnt snuggle me or anything for a good month afterwards. she has told me it was the hardest thing in the world for both of us.

if it were me i would seek alternative treatments or medications that are more nursing friendly. while slosly weaning from breast to bottle/sippee.
also she might want to check MilkShare for some milk for her DD instead of formula.

[steph66]

she was just diagnosed with cancer so she needs the meds and treatment right away. she said she wants to at least take a week to wean her completely. she was thinking of doing this starting tomorrow:
Monday-Nurse when she wakes up, nurse for nap and then nurse to sleep. only those times.and throughout the night if needed.
Tuesday-same as monday
wednesdayno nursing in the morning,nurse at naptime and then at bedtime,nurse throught night as needed.
Thursdaysame as wednesday.
Fridayno nursing in the morning or at naptime,nurse at bedtime and throughout the night.
Saturdaysame as friday
Sundayno nursing all day and no nusring to sleep.nurse throughout the night as needed.
Mondaysame as Sunday
Tuesdayno nursing all day and night.

okay so how realistic does this look? she also does not have much support from her dh at night. he has work at 6am and she is a sahm. so i know it would be better if he were to help her out in the nighttime hours but he can only offer limited help.

we have a friend who is nursing a nb and would be willing to pump for her but the thing is that the baby never took a bottle and doesnt drink enough out of the sippy cup. do you think this will change if she is not nursing as much?

[daniedb]

Aw, mama, that sounds so rough for your friend. I'm sorry. Many hugs to her. The schedule looks good, couple of thoughts:

-Do they cosleep? If so, if babe can sleep further away from mom (I don't know how I would feel about that as a mommy, I would hate it, and be worried, so if it's not an option, don't flame me, please) maybe that will help nighttime wakings? Perhaps if babe doesn't smell mom in those upward cycles, she won't wake, or at least be easier to soothe back to sleep?

-I'm not sure that she would need formula after a year. I know the formula co. pushes it, but I think that it's all a marketing thing. Henry, by choice, went down to 2 nursing sessions a day at about 14 months, morning upon waking and evening before sleep. By 15 months, he'd dropped the morning one and at 16, he refused the nighttime one for three days straight, so we called it weaned. Anyway, he was on cow's milk starting at a year, and mostly on solids at 13 months, and he consistently gained and didn't experience any health issues. If you're not into cow's milk, you can always supplement with goat's milk yogurt. I mean, she can, sorry. Henry would eat a cup of yogurt a day at 14 months, no kidding. It's sooooooo good for them, so I really never worried.

-I'm thinking that as long as she's getting good, healthy-fat foods like salmon, avocado, olive oil, etc., then the sweet girl will be fine.

If your friend is anywhere near me, I'd be happy to supplement with BM as much as I can! I know the BM isn't as much a factor as is the nursing bond that is having to be abruptly broken, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Let me know if I can be of help in any way. You're welcome to PM me! I'll be praying for her health and the difficult time ahead.

And I have NOT forgotten about your cream, I keep forgetting day-to-day and then I remember at times like this, and then forget to go look for it when I get up from the darn computer.

[MomToKandE]

The schedule looks good. Is there anyone who can come stay with her to help with the nights if needed? I weaned my first but she was much older (almost 3) so it's a little bit different but in my experience it helped to change the routine. For example when we dropped the morning wake-up nursing I actually just got up earlier so she was with dh when she woke up (we cosleep). With her dh leaving for work so early that might not work but maybe a special breakfast in bed or something?

I wouldn't worry too much about nutrition in the short term. If she's offering nutritious food and her dd is eating a little bit she'll be OK for now. She won't become malnourished in the next few weeks. Once they're through this transition she can evaluate the situation, talk to her dd's doctor or a pediatric nutritionist if she feels the need, and figure out if she needs to do anything else.

Has she tried a straw cup for her dd? My dd didn't like sippy cups for a long time but would take a straw cup. The yogurt is a great idea too. Maybe even make yogurt popsicles if her dd's into them.

I'm sure it's not going to be a fun week for either of them but they will get through it and be OK. Many hugs for them both and prayers for a quick, full recovery!

[steph66]

thanks so much ladies! Danielle-i so forgot all about that cream! we have been through so much lately w/the baby, shes been sick in the hospital and had her tubes in....etc etc. so we've been busy lately.
i am going to help her out as much as i can but i can't sleep over there,i've got my own little nursling! she did talk to her husband and he agreed that he will do what he can to help her out and try his best to get the baby in the night and soothe her back to sleep. they partial co-sleep. the baby goes down in her crib (in their room) and when she wakes during the night she goes to the bed and stays there until morning. i had suggested that perhaps she sleep on the couch for a few nights and see how that works. i feel sooo bad for her. she was crying earlier and hates to do this to her. she is just worried about her getting enough nutrition, although i know she wont starve, she has mostly been bf up until now. sippy cups-they've tried a lot of different ones and she didnt really care for any of them. i told her about the kind my dd takes (tommee tippee) and she just bought one but theres no telling how long it will take to get here because it is sold in UK and not here in US. i ordered mine about 1.5 weeks ago and its still not here! i will probably give it to her when it does come in. where can she find goats milk yogurt? we have organic in stores here. maybe we will go down to the farmers market (opens next week!yay!) and ask around. frozen water popsicles would be good too i suppose. how to go about yogurt popsicles??
thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers. and especially all your help and advice!
ETA-what other foods would be good for her? like high fats and the like?

[SleepyMamaBear]

avocado, oilive oil, coconut oil, salmon, nut butters if no allergies, butter is good too especially raw butter.
whole milk yogurt, goat milk yogurt, cheeses, sweet potatoes. anyone else think of anything else?

to your friend. what a very scary and traumatic thing to be going through.
if you have a nursling and are lactating and she really wont take a bottle/sippee/straw cup with pumped milk or goats milk, would you be willing to nurse her? then at least she is getting the nutrition and the comfort of nursing, even if its not with her mama.
definitely check out the milkshare group there are lots of wonderful mamas willing to donate, especially for children with mothers dealing with cancer.

[uzra_hashmi@rediff]

Would you consider, if possible, a shared nursing arrangement for your friend's baby?
Uzra

[Ravin]

Your milk would be much more suitable than a newborn's mama's milk, becaus composition changes with a child's age.

I'd be willing to bet once mama is no longer available, the little one will find new interest in a straw sippy or some such.

I ditto the goat's milk as a suggestion, too.

[MomToKandE]

You can get a popsicle mold at most any store. I've only ever seen plastic ones at stores like Target. (like this http://www.amazon.com/Hawaiice-Star-...582976-0015334)

I don't know if a fancy kitchen store would have glass...

You could probably just use little dixie cups and popsicle stickes too.

I sometimes buy the gogurt style yogurt in a tube and freeze that but they're full of a lot of extra sugar... fine for a treat but not the most nutritious option.

[steph66]

unfortunately she is not as crunchy as most of us are and she doesn't want her dd drinking anyone else's bm or having anyone else nurse her i offered it to her as a last resort and she sort of freaked out. she went to walmart yesterday and got some pushup style freezer things that she can use. how long do you think the little one will be upset for? she already messaged me today saying it was soo hard and the baby was already crying/screaming to bf and was practically attacking her pulling her shirt down/up and trying to suckle on whatever part of skin she can get i hate that they both have to go through this. its just not fair. this poor babe doesn't know why she cant have momma milk on demand like vshe has had her whole life: would it be easier if she wore a turtleneck(no easy access) she said she was going to put a s/s one on and tuck it in.

[ibbit]

None of my kids have been big eaters as toddlers. And my oldest two were formulafed. The dr. told me to put my oldest on whole milk at 9 months (I was a young mom and listened UGH!). My middle one started refusing formula and bottles at 10 months (she got ahold of her cousin's sippy cup with whole milk in it and no matter what/how I offered she wouldn't ever take formula again).

My oldest went through a stage where the only things she'd eat were peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chicken nuggets. The main thing is, kids will eat when they're hungry. So, if I were her I wouldn't worry to terribly over her solids intake. I know the weaning is going to be hard on her. Poor little baby and mommy. My heart goes out to them. But I wouldn't let the solids stress her out.

[pixiesmommy]

I don't have much advice, but.....

A couple of things that came to mind are:

Yogurt- frozen or not in the "go-gurt" style tubes are choking hazards to kids under 3. Another mama in one of my online groups nearly lost her 2 yr old to this! It can be so thick that it blocks their airway, so be careful!!

Her dd wanting to suck... does she take a pacifier? It's kind of late to start one, but in this case, I would give it a go! It will give her some comfort if she'll take it.

Also, look into a "Baby Safe Feeder" - they sell them online and it will help with the wanting to suck as well as give her a bit of nutrition. My dd LOVED a slice of peach in hers- it's a net-type pacifier thing that they can suck/gnaw food through without the choking hazard.

BIG HUGS to you, your friend, and her dd as you all go through this.

'Manda

[MomToKandE]

Good point about choking... I hadn't thought of that.

The one thing I did think of it to make sure her dd gets plenty of skin-to-skin contact. It might be too hard to do this with mom right now but getting that contact with dad might help. When my dd was 2 I (still nursing) had to leave her for 12 days. After a few days she started pulling up my mom's shirt just to rub on her tummy. (my mom stayed to help dh) She wasn't trying to nurse on my mom she just needed that skin contact.

(((hugs))) to them both!

[myjulybabes]

With my 2 that eventually took formula, they did both keep drinking it after a year. To the best of my knowledge, formula in and of itself is not "bad" (as long as it is prepared and stored correctly), it's just a poor substitute for breastmilk when breastmilk is available. If the child simply won't take much in the way of solids, and mama isn't willing to use donor milk, this may be a case where formula is a decent choice.

Have they tried a normal open top cup? Could get messy and definitely requires more supervision, but a "big people cup" seems to intrigue a lot of the toddlers I've known.

[2mama]

I can't imagine being in her situation. DS is an avid yogurt eater and will eat it when he eats nothing else. Stoneyfield makes one that has cereal at the bottom that DS adored when he was younger. If your friend chooses to not do the goats milk yogurt she could do cows milk yogurt. (DS refused goat milk and goats milk yogurt and it is pretty expensive) Just one thing make sure she checks to make sure it is made with whole milk. I think that for a babe that was EBF and taking little otherwise I would offer some kind of formula to ease the transition. Like pp ds never took a bottle or a sippy but did well with straws or open top cups. Unfortunatly nothing is going to be easy.

Another thing I thought of, have her offer healthy snacks often like every time she asks to nurse. Snuggle alot. Try to keep her busy. One thing that worked when I was trying to limit nursing related to pregnancy was crackers. DS loved them and there are some healthy varieties out there that she could give her the baby may even like them spread with a soft cheese.

Good luck

[steph66]

thanks so much for all the advice mamas! i just got off the phone with her and she said her dd is napping after a 15 minute struggle: . she said it wasnt as bad as she thought it would be. ooh-she decided to go cold turkey during the dayshe said she will nurse her to sleep tonight but after that no more bf ever. she feels that she will just confuse the baby if she does it the other way. its such a horrible situation for all of them right now. she said she went to the store and bought all sorts of snacks and food for her and will offer those to her and give drinks when she indicates she wants to nurse. she said she is going to do a combo of sippys and regular cups too. i'll try to keep everyone posted on how they're doing...