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when would you call CPS? - Page 6

post #101 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
I don't see a problem with sleeping in the nude, co-sleeping in the nude or nudity in general. So even if there was naked sleeping where is the abuse in that? I bet you lots of child perps wear pajamas to bed. Sleeping nude does not lead to sexual abuse.
I disagree.
post #102 of 251
Which part are you disagreeing with?
post #103 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
I wouldn't assume it would go nowhere. I see that most people here say either 1) it will do nothing, so don't bother or 2) omigod! her kids will be taken from their mother and will be all your fault!

There is grey. Why not call and ask what is typically done if you saw x, y, z. Ask if there are community resources available for help. Maybe you could get some business cards of free social service agencies that you could hand to a mom or stick under her windshield.
Sometimes our intuition signals alarm bells in our mind for a reason. Those are great suggestions. IMO much better than throwing up your hands believing "oh well, that's just how society is today" and "it won't matter anyway" and then turning a blind eye.
post #104 of 251
CPS is not designed to deal with shades of gray or funded to deal with them either.

The purpose of CPS is to deal with situations where kids are in danger from abuse and neglect.

Abuse is typically defined as mental, emotional, physical, or sexual injury.

Neglect is defined as the failure to provide a child with food, clothing, shelter or medical care and/or leaving a child in a situation where the child is at real and/or immediate risk of harm.

Neither of the situations described above sounds like it meets those standards.

Hell, if I listened to the encouragement given here to report everything I found to be unpleasant or sad to the authorities, that's all I would do all day. Including things I read about here sometimes.
post #105 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by offwing View Post
CPS is not designed to deal with shades of gray or funded to deal with them either.

The purpose of CPS is to deal with situations where kids are in danger from abuse and neglect.
This is definitely the case where I am (Toronto).
post #106 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakti A. View Post
For the record I have friends who parent in a fairly mainstream way who I think are good parents and friends who are about as AP as I consider myself to be who are absolute trainwrecks as parents. It's really not as simple, ime, as mainstream = bad and AP = good.
Yes, yes, yes. CIO as described by the OP is not good parenting IMO and that is an accepted method among some mainstream parents but that's just one example.

I've had the same experiences. I know some very gentle, loving "mainstream' parents and I also know "AP" parents who are not good parents.
post #107 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
T
As far as what I do when I witness things in public I try to say something helpful to the parent. Most recently I was waiting at the airport and there was a lady sitting beside me who kept hitting her two year old, saying "shut up and sit down." I was feeling sick but kept my cool and politely started to ask her about him, his age, was he tired etc. She quit hitting him and started to explain about her day and how he kept running for the double doors to go outside and how scared she was he was going to get away from her. She had missed her ride and was waiting for another. So at least for a moment I was able to give her some support and the child was not being smacked. Not perfect but at least I did something and I hope that the rest of their day went better.
You did a very good thing
post #108 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I was not very nice to ds1 sometimes when he was little. Looking back, I cringe. There were a lot of reasons and a lot of excuses and I got it all sorted out. But, the last bloody thing my family or I needed was to have some stranger coming into our home and butting in with their "help".

snip

I swore at him a few times, and I really wish I hadn't...but I did. I didn't need anybody getting involved and trying to tell me how to fix it - I figured that out myself. When I blew up at him in public, it was from stress...and it didn't mean that all these unnamed, horrible things were happening to him behind closed doors (an assertion I see here quite regularly). Actually, once I actually got the groceries home and the stress of the errand was over, things settled back down again. If anybody had involved CPS in my life at that time, I'm about 95% sure I'd have killed myself...anybody think that would have helped my son? Short of a flat-out beating, you really can't tell much about a stranger's parenting based on one incident in public. It could be part of a pattern...and it could be a total aberration.


I went through some rough times too. I've BTDT. Just like what you wrote.
I did have a visit from CPS. (Because my house was messy-I had been trying to declutter and there were many piles). It ended up being fine BUT it was very difficult.

I was also reported another time because my 4 yo wasn't toilet trained. In that case it was treated as a frivolous call. Even frivolous calls can be hurtful though if you're the recipient.

My parenting and housekeeping have now improved greatly. I no longer have the anger problems I did and I have learned to clean my house. Oh yeah, and the kid in question is potty trained :nana:
post #109 of 251
Quote:
Yes, yes, yes. CIO as described by the OP is not good parenting IMO and that is an accepted method among some mainstream parents but that's just one example.
Perhaps. The parents I know who've used CIO methods have not done anything as extreme as use earplugs and leave the building, though. Perhaps it's where I am or something, but the harshest I've seen is by-the-book Ferber, which is very, very different from what in the OP. I guess I mean that I think the extreme of CIO that's in the OP is as far outside the mainstream as I see it as the family bed is, albeit at the opposite end.
post #110 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by eloquence View Post
I disagree.
So, you think nudity in a household always leads to sexual abuse?

odd....

-Angela
post #111 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
Ok, taking a step back here - those who are against the whole idea of CPS - what would you suggest in its place? What would be your dream world regarding protecting children from predators, meth users, and generally abusive parents look like, while trying to assist the family unit?
Since I am one of those who said I would pretty much never report a parent to CPS . . .

I think many issues that typically become abuse/neglect situations can be remedied with support for the parents. As an individual, I would offer help cleaning, babysitting, etc to a mom or dad who seemed in need of the help -- a parent who is overly stressed and lashing out at her kids isn't necessarily a bad parent or bad person, she just needs some relief. Befriending someone in a situation like this is apt to do way more good than yanking her kids and putting her through hell to *maybe* get them back. So ideally, I'd like to see more support in the community for parents who are struggling -- more support and less condemnation.

I think the state has it's place in dealing with kids who are TRULY abused, though I think far more effort needs to be made to ensure that kids who cannot remain with their parents are placed with relatives. I also think federal adoption bonuses are complete and utter bull and need to be done away with; they completely contradict any plans for reunification the state SHOULD have.
post #112 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
Heffern, I am sorry you had a mean neighbor, they're usually the sort to report (along with family members) maliciously.
It wasn't so much that she was mean. She was just a control freak who truly thought her way was right so my way must be wrong. Like the OP, she felt she couldn't rest knowing that this kind of bad parenting was going on right under her nose.

Quote:

But what ended up happening with CPS?
The case worker questioned me, my husband and our pediatrician. The ped was able to assure her that we were not malnourishing him, and that we are in fact very good parents. The case worker then went on to tell us that she also breastfed her children for longer than a year. However, even once she was confident that DS was okay, she was still obliged to check our cabinets and fridge for food, check that we had electricity, check how clean the house was.

Quote:

If someone makes allegations of neglect, they have to look into it - what if you weren't you, and you were a mom who was passed out on meth in the bedroom and didn't feed your kids all day? Does anyone acknowledge that this happens every day in America?
This woman knew me. She had let me babysit her child for several months until it became clear that our parenting styles were night and day. We actually liked each other at one point.

If someone has some real reason to believe that a mom is cooking meth and either selling or using with kids in the house, yes, then CPS should be involved. But you don't risk having a child removed from his parents custody because you disagree with their parenting style. Having a skinny kid, or a crying kid, or even cussing at a kid is not grounds for losing your kid.
post #113 of 251
I would definitely not call CPS in either of those cases, even though I think they're both pretty icky. The first, sadly, is fairly common.

I would call CPS when I had direct or significant circumstantial evidence that:
1) a child was being physically abused
2) a child was being sexually abused
3) a child was being severely neglected--malnourished, rotting teeth, open wounds not being cared for, sitting in dirty diapers for days, living in extreme filth (animal or human urine/feces, weeks of garbage piled up), etc.
4) parents were impaired due to drug or alcohol abuse

I think CPS can be life-saving when called in cases of severe child abuse; I also think they be overly aggressive and dangerous at times.
post #114 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Since I am one of those who said I would pretty much never report a parent to CPS . . .

I think many issues that typically become abuse/neglect situations can be remedied with support for the parents. As an individual, I would offer help cleaning, babysitting, etc to a mom or dad who seemed in need of the help -- a parent who is overly stressed and lashing out at her kids isn't necessarily a bad parent or bad person, she just needs some relief. Befriending someone in a situation like this is apt to do way more good than yanking her kids and putting her through hell to *maybe* get them back. So ideally, I'd like to see more support in the community for parents who are struggling -- more support and less condemnation.

I think the state has it's place in dealing with kids who are TRULY abused, though I think far more effort needs to be made to ensure that kids who cannot remain with their parents are placed with relatives. I also think federal adoption bonuses are complete and utter bull and need to be done away with; they completely contradict any plans for reunification the state SHOULD have.

My feelings exactly. We accomplish nothing by approaching other parents with a judgemental attitude. We need to reach out with compassion to those who are struggling. We are the lucky ones because someone took the time to teach us how to parent in a compassionate manner.
post #115 of 251
I wouldn't call on either, too.

the first. some parents whole heartedly believe in crying it out. and it can entail multiple HOURS of crying until they cry themselves to sleep. it's horribly heart breaking but not illegal.

2nd- it's not against the law to cuss at your kids. it's may be considered emotional abuse but i don't think there's leagally andything you can do about that.
post #116 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post

Kentucky, I couldn't find your story.The only thing that came up with a search of your username and cps on google is something about how you wish your husband would've called CPS on his ex for your DSS for neglect. So I guess you're not totally against CPS. Is that what you were referring to?

No, my story is here on MDC, I'll find it for you later. I think its posted twice.
ETA: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=667755&page=2

I'm not totally against CPS, no. Actually I am debating whether to continue on in school for social work (almost finished with my nursing degree- would work weekends as a nurse while continuing on in school for SW)

And with dh's ex, its defiantely a case of children in need of being removed or highly supervised by CPS that weren't, over and over again - despite the fact that the mother had/has a 10 year plus history/record with them in two countries and three states, plenty of reported medical & school documentation also.
Its just crazy. :
post #117 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCVeg View Post
I would definitely not call CPS in either of those cases, even though I think they're both pretty icky. The first, sadly, is fairly common.

I would call CPS when I had direct or significant circumstantial evidence that:
1) a child was being physically abused
2) a child was being sexually abused
3) a child was being severely neglected--malnourished, rotting teeth, open wounds not being cared for, sitting in dirty diapers for days, living in extreme filth (animal or human urine/feces, weeks of garbage piled up), etc.
4) parents were impaired due to drug or alcohol abuse

I think CPS can be life-saving when called in cases of severe child abuse; I also think they be overly aggressive and dangerous at times.

Those are pretty much my guidlines too, and I think there are good standards to go by.
post #118 of 251
Quote:
As in "get in the f-ing car you f-ing brat" kind of thing.
Have not read all the responses on this thread but wanted to say that this is verbal abuse and yes, I would report it. I don't know that it is not a crime since I am not a legal expert for the state in which this woman lives, as most of us are not. But it is not for us to judge but CPS. Let Child Protection Services do their job. And even if it is not criminal abuse, it could still being considered abuse that warrants protection under state law, justifiedly so.

And if I heard a husband saying that to his wife, you bet I would try to get her out of the relationship if I knew the woman and I would also report it if I had enough info as to who the people were.
post #119 of 251
My friend's four year old son once ran through the grocery store yelling "Don't beat me mama! Don't beat me!"

That's because she was using "playful parenting" and had challenged him to a *race* to the end of the grocery aisle.

She didn't shop in that store for months after that... even now she's terrified that the people there think she's a child abuser...
post #120 of 251
That is so not/funny, omg!

For those who would call CPS on strangers in a store or something, how would you help them find who you are talking about? Honest question. I've seen some dodgy situations but I wouldn't have even known what to report if I called. "Some guy was screaming at his kid at the bus stop" isn't exactly going to give them much to work with. If it's bad enough to call 911, certainly I'll do that, but CPS doesn't exactly come with lights and sirens so how would they even know who to investigate?
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