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when would you call CPS? - Page 3

post #41 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
not nice. but legal.

there is no point in reporting any of this.
I agree
post #42 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
I don't know. Our whole culture is verbally abusive. Truly. You can't take a trip around town without hearing someone cussing someone out on their cell phone or putting down someone considered to be their inferior or talking about how sweet it was to see some catty guy rip a woman to shreds on TV. It doesn't make sense to me to single out some mom in a parking lot for "intervention" on this subject and I strongly suspect that if we criminalize something as widespread as verbal abuse, it's going to be harried working class moms who get the brunt of it, fair or not.
I agree. Sad though it may be, I don't think encouraging governmental interference for this is warranted. There needs to be maintained a pretty high bar before allowing state intervention in the family and I don't think swearing at a kid or calling him names (horrible though that may be) is high enough.
post #43 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
I'd just like to point out that some of the non-mainstream parenting practices that research *DOES* support (i.e. co-sleeping, EBF, or for that matter not vaxing) could easily be considered abuse by the mainstream population. Mainly for that reason, I try and give other people some wiggle room on what I would personally consider "bad parenting practices" because if I'm calling on them (anonymously or not) why would anyone else afford me the wiggle room to do what I do? I'm sure I'm not the only one scared to DEATH to have CPS called on me for practices that have actually been shown in research to be beneficial, but are not considered "normal". Of course, in the case that was mentioned previously where the house was disgusting/unsanitary (diaper piles, and all) that *might* move me to call, or if I see a beating in public, but.... I feel like I need to give other parents the space that *I* want to make my/their own decisions about the respective children.
: As an HBACer, I gave a lot of thought to this in case (God forbid) something happened, which is why I'm generally against getting them involved because I know that many in the mainstream would point the "abuse" finger at me for attempting HBAC.
post #44 of 251
I'm a mandated reporter and have been since the early 1980s. Honestly I have had to make very few reports and those were while working as part of an interdisciplinary team. Neither of the situations you described would be reportable.

I have only reported a friend once and it broke my heart and cost me her friendship and others to take sides, I didn't tell anyone because I am required to maintain confidentiality but she did and several people were not even interested in talking to me afterwards. She told me that her adolescent son was sexually abusing her three year old little girl and was not willing to seek any kind of counseling. In that situation I had to act within 24 hours and CPS took it very seriously. It was heartbreaking.

Before making a report make sure it is really something serious. Dirty kids, cussing, CIO, and other less than optimal parenting choices are not reportable. Sadly spanking and hitting kids is not reportable either unless there are deliberate injuries.

I myself have been concerned that I could be reported for CLW, co-sleeping and homeschooling. I am also very conservative when it comes to medical care for myself while pregnant and for our children. It is hard to disagree with a doctor knowing they could document it and involve CPS to CYA.
post #45 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
I'm a mandated reporter and have been since the early 1980s. Honestly I have had to make very few reports and those were while working as part of an interdisciplinary team. Neither of the situations you described would be reportable.

I have only reported a friend once and it broke my heart and cost me her friendship and others to take sides, I didn't tell anyone because I am required to maintain confidentiality but she did and several people were not even interested in talking to me afterwards. She told me that her adolescent son was sexually abusing her three year old little girl and was not willing to seek any kind of counseling. In that situation I had to act within 24 hours and CPS took it very seriously. It was heartbreaking.

Before making a report make sure it is really something serious. Dirty kids, cussing, CIO, and other less than optimal parenting choices are not reportable. Sadly spanking and hitting kids is not reportable either unless there are deliberate injuries.

I myself have been concerned that I could be reported for CLW, co-sleeping and homeschooling. I am also very conservative when it comes to medical care for myself while pregnant and for our children. It is hard to disagree with a doctor knowing they could document it and involve CPS to CYA.


It's horrible, but you made the right choice. THAT is something that is reportable
post #46 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
And you know, frankly it annoys me to think that someone is sitting there with her finger on the phone dial because someone is swearing around kids. Honest to pete, the Victorians have died out already.
:


I've sworn around my kids on my worst days ~ similar to what was quoted in the OP ~ and I'd hate to have CPS called on me when all I needed was a hug and some time to just cry on someone's shoulder.....
post #47 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
And you know, frankly it annoys me to think that someone is sitting there with her finger on the phone dial because someone is swearing around kids. Honest to pete, the Victorians have died out already.
i think there is a difference in saying the f word around your child and saying get in the f-ing car you f-ing brat to your child!

If a husband told his wife she was and fing b*tch get in the fing car would that not be verbally abusive? I guess it is in my books, and no different for that poor child.
post #48 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
I myself have been concerned that I could be reported for CLW, co-sleeping and homeschooling. I am also very conservative when it comes to medical care for myself while pregnant and for our children. It is hard to disagree with a doctor knowing they could document it and involve CPS to CYA.
See, I don't get this overriding MDC concern. Color me ignorant, but can people give me some news links where families were investigated and had their kids taken away for AP choices. And I mean AP/NFL choices, not homeschooling and oh...keeping their kids in cages. And I don't mean hostile family members/neighbors reporting on each other - that happens all the time, no matter what the parenting choices are.

I know there was that mom who was cosleeping (naked) and still breastfeeding her six year old in the news a few years ago, but it was remarkable for its unusual nature, in many ways.

And if people are swearing at their kids or partner - calling them "f-ers" then yes, I think some counseling and help would assist in preventing long-term issues. CPS in my area doesn't make parents go, and they don't offer it themselves, but there are many nonprofit agencies that provide free or low-cost parenting/relationship strategy classes.
post #49 of 251
I've dealt alot with CPS, I don't think they are going to respond in either situation.
post #50 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
I'd just like to point out that some of the non-mainstream parenting practices that research *DOES* support (i.e. co-sleeping, EBF, or for that matter not vaxing) could easily be considered abuse by the mainstream population. Mainly for that reason, I try and give other people some wiggle room on what I would personally consider "bad parenting practices" because if I'm calling on them (anonymously or not) why would anyone else afford me the wiggle room to do what I do? I'm sure I'm not the only one scared to DEATH to have CPS called on me for practices that have actually been shown in research to be beneficial, but are not considered "normal". Of course, in the case that was mentioned previously where the house was disgusting/unsanitary (diaper piles, and all) that *might* move me to call, or if I see a beating in public, but.... I feel like I need to give other parents the space that *I* want to make my/their own decisions about the respective children.
This comes pretty close to my attitude.
Also, a bad home situation alone wouldn't be enough to cause me to call CPS. I'd have to also consider whether the child would be better off through anything CPS would do, including remove the child from his parents' home and place him in institutional care. As a PP pointed out, mainstream parenting is often pretty bad, but probably wouldn't be improved in most cases by CPS involvement. I'd hold out for the genuinely dangerous situations.
post #51 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianmommax3 View Post
i think there is a difference in saying the f word around your child and saying get in the f-ing car you f-ing brat to your child!
You're right. I DO think there is a difference. However I don't think CPS would be concerned with either one.

-Angela
post #52 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
You're right. I DO think there is a difference. However I don't think CPS would be concerned with either one.

-Angela
i agree
post #53 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
See, I don't get this overriding MDC concern. Color me ignorant, but can people give me some news links where families were investigated and had their kids taken away for AP choices. And I mean AP/NFL choices, not homeschooling and oh...keeping their kids in cages. And I don't mean hostile family members/neighbors reporting on each other - that happens all the time, no matter what the parenting choices are.

I know there was that mom who was cosleeping (naked) and still breastfeeding her six year old in the news a few years ago, but it was remarkable for its unusual nature, in many ways.
I don't have a link but there was a case in the news a couple of years ago of a UCer who had the baby taken away JUST BECAUSE they had a UC. The agreed to move out of state and CPS allowed them to and take their child.

And the mom who was breastfeeding her 6 yr old was a member here for quite awhile and there was no naked sleeping. Just nursing. And yes. Her child was taken away for it.

-Angela
post #54 of 251
I haven't read the whole thread but thought I would post my own experience with this kind of thing as it seems relevant...

My former next-door neighbor (with whom we share a wall) used to scream at her dd (2 yo ) often in the night or in the morning when she woke up too early. "You mother-f'er! F'ing go to sleep RIGHT NOW or you'll be sorry. Go to sleep you f'ing brat. Or I'll get the Scream Guy." (The Scream Guy...who knows what that was but apparently something used to frighten the poor kid into submission.)

I was greatly, greatly disturbed by this, and it was repetitive. So I did call CPS.

They said they do not come out for verbal abuse; they can't do anything - especially if the child is not of an age where they can talk clearly about what's happening in the home.

This is in San Diego - don't know what CPS is like elsewhere - but IMO the caseworkers have so many truly awful cases of abuse and neglect to deal with that verbal abuse, however severe, is just not going to be a priority. At the most they might come out to the house but if they see it is clean and there are no signs of physical abuse, they can't - and won't - do anything.

Depressing? Yes. Very.

As far as the CIO, I just read an column written by a wealthy woman about how she got her 4 children to sleep through the night. At precisely 6 weeks of age she shut them in their room and did extinction CIO. For as long as it took. With the first child, that meant that her 6-week-old cried ALL NIGHT LONG (can you even IMAGINE a tiny, tiny baby like that crying for 8 hours??) and then 3 hours the next night and 45 minutes the night after that...and then from there on out the kid went to sleep right at 7:30. She admitted to being so smugly proud of her "success" that she used the exact same method on each of her subsequent children.

So here we have someone doing something much, much, much worse than what you describe in situation #1, and not only does she not fear CPS, she feels proud of what she has done - proud enough to write a newspaper column about it. And presumably no one took her kids away or even blinked twice at her column.

It's despicably sad, but there isn't really much you can do. As someone said upthread, "CIO is normal". (Although personally, had I known the woman who wrote the column at the time when she was letting a newborn CIO, you bet I would have called CPS, and with a newborn, they might actually have taken an interest in the situation. But they certainly aren't going to care that a 1-yo or a 2.5-yo are left to cry.)
post #55 of 251
I am such a bleeding heart like the OP. I just wish I could fix it every time I see a child being mis-treated.
I have seen so many horrible things from strangers...there is a discount thrift store that I go to a lot. I have seen it all there. I have seen obvious meth addicts pushing strollers around with filthy infants in them. How does an infant get dirty head to toe?
I have seen all sorts of verbal and physical abuse go down there...people just leave their carts in the aisles with babies in them and go wandering around the store! I have seen employees stand there by an abandoned cart containing a young child or baby for 5 minutes or more, shouting all the time "Who's child is this?" Before some idiot slowly meanders over and claims the cart/child!!!!:

I have joked many times that CPS should just set up a table in the corner of that store because of the stuff I have seen go down.
But I have realized through this experience that there isn't much that you can do in these kinds of situations, especially when the parent is a stranger.
I have actually been tempted to follow people home sometimes so that I could report them, and I swear it was only when I witnessed blatant physical abuse, but I never have. I really don't feel like anything would come of it, and CPS is really busy here in Portland.

When it is a friend I strongly agree with the previous poster: Plant seeds of doubt and water them. Make it seem totally off hand, like "OMG! Guess what I read the other day!" Or offer alternative suggestions "You know what worked for us..." but be really non confrontational.
I have friends and acquaintances that I have done this with. It wont fix everything, but you can usually help inspire some change, which is better than nothing. And you will feel more like a friend than you will calling CPS.

Good for you, though, for caring so much about these other children's well being so much. I am sure you are a fantastic mom to your babe!
post #56 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
And the mom who was breastfeeding her 6 yr old was a member here for quite awhile and there was no naked sleeping. Just nursing. And yes. Her child was taken away for it.

-Angela
I don't see a problem with sleeping in the nude, co-sleeping in the nude or nudity in general. So even if there was naked sleeping where is the abuse in that? I bet you lots of child perps wear pajamas to bed. Sleeping nude does not lead to sexual abuse.
post #57 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
I don't see a problem with sleeping in the nude, co-sleeping in the nude or nudity in general. So even if there was naked sleeping where is the abuse in that? I bet you lots of child perps wear pajamas to bed. Sleeping nude does not lead to sexual abuse.
I agree. But in the case I'm thinking of she DID cosleep but they wore clothes. The child was taken (and kept for MONTHS) simply because she was still nursing him.

-Angela
post #58 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
See, I don't get this overriding MDC concern. Color me ignorant, but can people give me some news links where families were investigated and had their kids taken away for AP choices. And I mean AP/NFL choices, not homeschooling and oh...keeping their kids in cages. And I don't mean hostile family members/neighbors reporting on each other - that happens all the time, no matter what the parenting choices are.

http://www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Feb01.html

(Dated, but it's a good summary to that point.)
post #59 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy View Post
and swearing isn't a crime. That woman could have been having the most awful day of her life and swearing like that was her release so she didn't lash out at her children. I swear I had pregnancy induced turrettes syndrome when my son was a baby (high needs) and sometimes turned heads with my vent-swearing.
I was not very nice to ds1 sometimes when he was little. Looking back, I cringe. There were a lot of reasons and a lot of excuses and I got it all sorted out. But, the last bloody thing my family or I needed was to have some stranger coming into our home and butting in with their "help". Gah - I can't even get through a single visit from a Public Health Nurse without wanting to scream...having regularly scheduled "assistance" from someone because a stranger heard me blow up at ds1 in public would have just cut into my already over-stretched time, and caused me even more stress.

I swore at him a few times, and I really wish I hadn't...but I did. I didn't need anybody getting involved and trying to tell me how to fix it - I figured that out myself. When I blew up at him in public, it was from stress...and it didn't mean that all these unnamed, horrible things were happening to him behind closed doors (an assertion I see here quite regularly). Actually, once I actually got the groceries home and the stress of the errand was over, things settled back down again. If anybody had involved CPS in my life at that time, I'm about 95% sure I'd have killed myself...anybody think that would have helped my son? Short of a flat-out beating, you really can't tell much about a stranger's parenting based on one incident in public. It could be part of a pattern...and it could be a total aberration.

The CIO thing makes me want to vomit. But, I don't think it's actually abuse by modern, mainstream standards.
post #60 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I agree. But in the case I'm thinking of she DID cosleep but they wore clothes. The child was taken (and kept for MONTHS) simply because she was still nursing him.

-Angela
Totally wrong to have that happen. That is why I worry about even admitting in a public forum like this that I CLW.
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