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when would you call CPS? - Page 4

post #61 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
See, I don't get this overriding MDC concern. Color me ignorant, but can people give me some news links where families were investigated and had their kids taken away for AP choices.
You know...I don't want my kids taken away. But, I don't want a bunch of state-sanctioned strangers butting into my life and inspecting my home, either. Even if kids aren't taken, the investigation is not without a lot of stress and an impact on the family under investigation. I don't like having stranger in my home - and strangers who are there precisely for the purpose of putting me and my parenting under the microscope...YUCK!

My sister got a call about 10 years ago, when my escape artist nephew (then 2) climbed up on a chair, and slipped the latch while she was in the kitchen doing dishes. He'd been napping, and she was checking on him. Anyway, he got out in the street, and some woman chased him back in, got one look at my sister's tattoos and called CPS. She only had one visit, as they found the neglect charge from the woman to be groundless. But, I don't want people in my home rifling through my CDs and videos looking for evidence that I'm some kind of deviant.
post #62 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
You know...I don't want my kids taken away. But, I don't want a bunch of state-sanctioned strangers butting into my life and inspecting my home, either. Even if kids aren't taken, the investigation is not without a lot of stress and an impact on the family under investigation. I don't like having stranger in my home - and strangers who are there precisely for the purpose of putting me and my parenting under the microscope...YUCK!

My sister got a call about 10 years ago, when my escape artist nephew (then 2) climbed up on a chair, and slipped the latch while she was in the kitchen doing dishes. He'd been napping, and she was checking on him. Anyway, he got out in the street, and some woman chased him back in, got one look at my sister's tattoos and called CPS. She only had one visit, as they found the neglect charge from the woman to be groundless. But, I don't want people in my home rifling through my CDs and videos looking for evidence that I'm some kind of deviant.
: And I don't want to sic the state on anyone else either without good reason. It's not right and a waste of resources.
post #63 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilushka View Post
: And I don't want to sic the state on anyone else either without good reason. It's not right and a waste of resources.
Absolutely. I've never heard of a CPS department that isn't underfunded and understaffed...so wasting their resources on someone who swore at their kid, when they're needed to deal with negectful drug addicts, pedophiles and child beaters makes no sense to me.
post #64 of 251
I wouldnt call about either one
post #65 of 251
Thread Starter 

Thanks again from the OP

This is really putting things into perspective for me, which is exactly what I wanted, sad as the perspective is.

I've been thinking about this all day...

I grew up in a home with a lot of anger. Inside the house my parents gave us kids (and each other) the brunt of all that rage both physically & verbally. Outside the house, we were model citizens. Though my mom actually had CPS called once for my sister, b/c Mom had slapped her across the face in the car one day (nothing happened). I removed myself as quickly as possible, got my stuff together, and got my life together.

Ten years later, I am peaceful to the extreme (which I imagine many mamas on this board are). I do not allow my mom alone with my babe, and I do not have any relationship with my father. I shield myself from major sources of rage (no TV, no news), and I work on the anger I do have. But when I see this kind of stuff, it melts me. I guess it makes me want to say something because it truly hits home.

I simply didn't know that it would likely go nowhere if reported. Now I guess I know. It still makes me want to DO something, though. I don't mean necessarily to report them, but to help such struggling moms. I am going to look for volunteer stuff along these lines... I have to redirect the distress I feel for these kids.
post #66 of 251
I wouldn't assume it would go nowhere. I see that most people here say either 1) it will do nothing, so don't bother or 2) omigod! her kids will be taken from their mother and will be all your fault!

There is grey. Why not call and ask what is typically done if you saw x, y, z. Ask if there are community resources available for help. Maybe you could get some business cards of free social service agencies that you could hand to a mom or stick under her windshield.
post #67 of 251
Quote:
Just bad parenting... otherwise known as mainstream parenting!
For the record I have friends who parent in a fairly mainstream way who I think are good parents and friends who are about as AP as I consider myself to be who are absolute trainwrecks as parents. It's really not as simple, ime, as mainstream = bad and AP = good.
post #68 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I don't have a link but there was a case in the news a couple of years ago of a UCer who had the baby taken away JUST BECAUSE they had a UC. The agreed to move out of state and CPS allowed them to and take their child.

And the mom who was breastfeeding her 6 yr old was a member here for quite awhile and there was no naked sleeping. Just nursing. And yes. Her child was taken away for it.

-Angela
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
http://www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Feb01.html

(Dated, but it's a good summary to that point.)
There are three cases on there. In the WHOLE UNITED STATES. One of which there was "more" going on than first stated (the NY one); one of which was the cosleeping naked, breastfeeding thing, where the boy allegedly told his babysitter that he wanted to stop but his mom insisted on BFing him. The boy was removed for about six months and then returned, I think the mom had to agree to sleep with clothes on and go along with what her son wanted regarding BFing. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_n13881804

But in any case, are three cases really something to get as paranoid as people do get on here? If there's a report, they have to investigate, but that probably just means making sure everyone's safe and healthy. I know I would be devastated if my kids were taken from me, but I'm also not going to put them in harm's way through drug abuse, physical abuse, starvation, or sexual abuse. There are really moms and dads who do this! It sometimes seems like nobody here has actually witnessed a family with these issues, and so poo-poo the whole concept of CPS and its purpose.

I've dealt with the foster and CPS system, and it's so not that big of a deal. Most CPS workers are parents too and know we're not all perfect. They went into this job because they want to make sure kids aren't beaten and killed and raped, not to steal kids and cackle. Oh, and make money - how does that one go? They take kids in order to boost their salaries? Yes, all those rich social workers.

Their job is to make sure kids are safe, not whether or not we're uncomfortable. Maybe safe is getting a parent some mental health help. Maybe safe is helping someone get outpatient drug counselling. Maybe a local agency to help deliver food if there isn't enough. Many CPS agencies provide referrals to great parenting classes that help parents learn new coping mechanisms so they're NOT screaming names at their kids, or hitting them. Or wanting to kill themselves. Or then again, maybe it's easy enough to see they're safe and the allegations are unfounded, and the case is closed.
post #69 of 251
I'm definitely not in the "paranoid about CPS" club. But honestly, if I was having depression issues as a parent, they're about the last place I'd turn for help. I got a heavy enough dose of shame and attempts at controlling me from "the system" as a childless 20-year-old with depression. I shudder to think what they would do "for the good of your child."

Seems like Storm Bride found a way through. I agree that we should help parents who are struggling, but I don't think calling in the authorities is "help" per se.
post #70 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
There are three cases on there. In the WHOLE UNITED STATES. ..., maybe it's easy enough to see they're safe and the allegations are unfounded, and the case is closed.
Those are just the three cases we know of that are well documented by the media. Many more parents face these issues especially when divorcing and visits are ordered that violate the nursing relationship.

There is still an permanent record even if allegations are unfounded. Should there be future allegations then they will be reconsidered.

As far as what I do when I witness things in public I try to say something helpful to the parent. Most recently I was waiting at the airport and there was a lady sitting beside me who kept hitting her two year old, saying "shut up and sit down." I was feeling sick but kept my cool and politely started to ask her about him, his age, was he tired etc. She quit hitting him and started to explain about her day and how he kept running for the double doors to go outside and how scared she was he was going to get away from her. She had missed her ride and was waiting for another. So at least for a moment I was able to give her some support and the child was not being smacked. Not perfect but at least I did something and I hope that the rest of their day went better.
post #71 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakti A. View Post
For the record I have friends who parent in a fairly mainstream way who I think are good parents and friends who are about as AP as I consider myself to be who are absolute trainwrecks as parents. It's really not as simple, ime, as mainstream = bad and AP = good.


What Shakti said. I've got mainstream friends who are fabulous parents, and one co-sleeping, breastfeeding, anti-circ, anti-vax, organic-food-eating vegan friend w/2 kids who I wouldn't trust to feed my cats.

People vary too much to make snap judgments either way.

Antigone
post #72 of 251
I assure you there are more than 3 cases. I know many individuals with cases similar.

-Angela
post #73 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
I'm definitely not in the "paranoid about CPS" club. But honestly, if I was having depression issues as a parent, they're about the last place I'd turn for help. I got a heavy enough dose of shame and attempts at controlling me from "the system" as a childless 20-year-old with depression. I shudder to think what they would do "for the good of your child."

Seems like Storm Bride found a way through. I agree that we should help parents who are struggling, but I don't think calling in the authorities is "help" per se.
But what about parents who don't want help, who insist they don't need help, and who think that the beatings/name callings are perfectly fine, you don't need to stick your nosy nose into their business?

I give anyone that - if there's another way through, then that's great. Giving the names of local social services, talking with a parent, distracting them, etc. But so many times when you do try this, they tell you to MYOB and those kids are theirs, not yours, so they can do as they see fit. I could share some stories, if that would help. We've had kids show up at the library, crying, in their pajamas, because they're so afraid of mom who was throwing stuff at them. We called the police. The mom shows up and gets mad at us for interfering in her life and calling the police. We've had young children left at the library past closing time, nobody answering the phone at home, we call the police to keep the kids, the parents are all mad because we should've just waited for...hours? What they are, is embarrassed and mad that they got caught doing something they KNEW was wrong. And if they aren't willing to change of their own volition, I don't see anything wrong with CPS helping them along a little.

Most of those CPS-is-Scary sites have long articles on how it's just fine to spank and discipline your kids as you wish, cos the Bible told them so. And that's not even counting the people who look away or don't want to get involved.

People would get more up in arms and DO something if they saw a puppy being called names, hit, or threatened with violence.
post #74 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I assure you there are more than 3 cases. I know many individuals with cases similar.

-Angela
Where the children were removed for AP reasons only (not ugly divorces and MILs) by CPS and put into foster care? That which everyone is so worried about on here? Do you have some links?
post #75 of 251
FSM, I'd love to know where you live that CPS is "no big deal." Seriously. The invasion of privacy, the scrutiny, the lies against you, the twisting, the digging, the threats, the broken promises, the accusations without evidence.... I would never EVER say CPS wasn't a big deal. Just their involvement alone can break families, even if the child is never taken away.
Its been FOUR years and I still have not recovered from my experience. I have clinical Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of it.

It clearly can be a big deal.


And FWIW, the state receives more Federal funding for every child they adopt out from foster care. Look it up, research it, do the math. Its a big financial gain the more children they adopt out. Keeping families together only drains money and resources. Its not some big "OMGOSH! The evil evil state is out to get us!!" mentality. Its just simply fact. The system as a whole is messed up beyond belief. Helping children is no longer the main agenda. There are good CPS workers and there are bad ones. Like I said, its a crap shoot. One I'm not personally willing to risk with my family or anyone elses.

*And, children are almost never removed for only being AP, or only hitting, or only anything. Once they are in your home they will dig until they find an arsenal of things against you. (If they can't find anything, rest assured they'll make something up.) This holds true especially for lower income families. Yes, they are targeted by CPS more. So are people who are of races other than white. The system is not a carefully calculated and safe system. Its not without fault and many errors. Its not even close to perfect. In fact, its downright unacceptable. And when it comes to our children, I'm not willing to settle for that.
post #76 of 251
Don't you think it is devastating just to have someone come into your house? The worst is to have the kids removed but it can seriously undermine your confidence as a parent that the government would knock on your door.

I do know people, educated professionals, extremely nuturing parents, who do worry that what if they came and there aren't enough beds in the house or what if they find out I am still nursing or that we are vegan. I do have a friend who was investigated for feeding her well nourished healthy children a vegan diet. If she had been down at Mc. Ds no one would have bothered to show up.

We ourselves have been afraid of refusing treatment in the hospital for fear that CPS would be called. Our last daughter we caved into formula even though we knew it was wrong. They said her blood sugar was low and my immediate response was let me nurse. Their protocol was that formula had to be given until levels were stable. In the end we gave in because the most important thing was getting her discharged home. We took the formula with us and nodded politely. We got home and nursed and of course all was fine.

I don't think it is an unrealistic fear at all that we worry about how our parenting choices might be misconstrued by others.
post #77 of 251
I hear you on the fear, but I think it's largely unfounded. Things might be investigated, but lots of things are investigated and found to be completely untrue or without merit. It doesn't mean you'd be found guilty of a vegan lifestyle, unless you're feeding your kids only apple juice or something.

It's uncomfortable. It's not meant to be comfortable. It's some serious stuff. But it doesn't mean the end of the world, either. I'd rather a few innocent people be investigated (and found innocent, as usual), than have a world without CPS and have children beaten, starved, and raped. Which happens too often anyways in the name of family reunification or lack of evidence.
post #78 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by momuveight2B View Post
Don't you think it is devastating just to have someone come into your house? The worst is to have the kids removed but it can seriously undermine your confidence as a parent that the government would knock on your door.

Its not fun to question everything you do. To wonder all day if someone is watching you and waiting until you raise your voice just a bit too much, or heaven forbid use a swear word. To vacuum your house 10 times a day and never let anyone over unannounced because you're worried your home isn't "clean" enough..You don't ever quite get over the judgmental accusations no matter how innocent you are. They stay with you and repeat over and over in your head..

Unless you've had a corrupt social worker, or had a child removed... you just really have no idea the amount of damage it can do to a family.
post #79 of 251
Ok, taking a step back here - those who are against the whole idea of CPS - what would you suggest in its place? What would be your dream world regarding protecting children from predators, meth users, and generally abusive parents look like, while trying to assist the family unit?
post #80 of 251
your first scenario is what DH's aunt was *told* by her pediatrician to do. Admittedly, years ago, but that kind of advice was out there. She talks about going to the far corner of the yard and crying while listening to her baby cry because she "wasnt' supposed to eat for another two hours and it was naptime."

Most CIO advocates don't recommend anything quite that harsh anymore, but I'm sure that there are plenty of docs raised with that attitude still practicing, and that advice is still being handed out. I think CPS would do nothing - CIO is not even on their radar, and with the "who told on me" fallout you might lose a chance to do some more gentle educating
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