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when would you call CPS? - Page 5

post #81 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
Where the children were removed for AP reasons only (not ugly divorces and MILs) by CPS and put into foster care? That which everyone is so worried about on here? Do you have some links?
The children were removed in a number of them. I don't have links because they are individuals. They didn't get media coverage.

-Angela
post #82 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
Ok, taking a step back here - those who are against the whole idea of CPS - what would you suggest in its place? What would be your dream world regarding protecting children from predators, meth users, and generally abusive parents look like, while trying to assist the family unit?
Totally not against CPS. Just against frivolous complaints. That was the original question. Not that I think it is OK by any stretch of the imagination to curse at children or CIO.

OP was asking when should we call and if not call then what can we do to help in the situation.
post #83 of 251
I wouldn't call CPS in either case, although I do feel for those poor children. I just don't know if taking them from their parents would put them in a better situation. Plus, I don't see where CPS would step in for CIO or swearing.

While I have never let a child CIO, I freqently sit/sat in my yard or porch while the chidren were inside. I've also gardened. Sometimes the children weren't even sleeping. :

What's so bad about that?
post #84 of 251
To the OP: I'm as bleeding heart as they come, and I wouldn't report this, for the same reasons Storm Bride gave. ITA with everything she's written here.

Re: fear of CPS, stories of CPS abuse aren't for the most part in the media, and I find it completely obnoxious that someone would pooh-pooh my concern as being "paranoia" because I can't prove to them that these abuses have occurred, and therefore I must be, what, making it up? Whatever. I have first-hand accounts from a CPS social worker that leave no doubt in my mind about it. But in fact, I don't need to prove anything to anyone to justify my concern about an agency that has an unreasonable amount of power with insufficient checks to prevent abuse of that power occurring. The existence of it alone, partnered with human fallibility and the strong emotional biases of so many people against AP/NFL, would make it reasonable for me to be concerned, even if I personally knew of no evidence of CPS abuse.
post #85 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
And you know, frankly it annoys me to think that someone is sitting there with her finger on the phone dial because someone is swearing around kids. Honest to pete, the Victorians have died out already.
Yeah...if cussing around your kids is grounds for being reported for child abuse, I'm totally in BIG TIME trouble.
post #86 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by aiea View Post

My original thoughts were:
-kid is being neglected/verbally abused
-"authorities" are set up to help
-I should link up the problem with the potential help source
Couple of things...first of all, I think you are probably VERY sensitive parenting issues right now, especially if you're doing everything you can do to be a good and loving parent.

Second of all, it is all wonderful to believe that the "authorities" are set up to help children in need and to "help" families, but the bottom line is that the CPS system in our country is so overburdened that they're not there to help simply maladjusted families. It would be GREAT if CPS could step into every household where parents could use a few (or a million) parenting classes and see to it that all children were raised by loving parents who believed and tried to adhere to many of the ideals here at the MDC. But that is not only unrealistic, but also perfectly impossible to mandate.

Third of all, what appears as neglect to you (as a vigilant, highly sensitive parent) is not likely to be defined as neglect by any CPS agency. Cussing around kids or at kids, not illegal. Not even neglectful. Mean spirited, yes. Damaging--only in ways the government isn't willing to commit to paper yet.

I sympathize with your pain. I'm a person who has stepped between a parent (and grandparent, too) and child when I witnessed physical abuse happening. I have called the cops on a man beating his pre-schooler with an air hose in the parking lot of a gas station. I have confronted a grandmother beating her grandson with her flipflop in front of my son's school. I totally understand wanting to protect the children.

But, I have no faith that CPS is going to do anything in either of the situations you've described, nor am I certain I believe they should. And honestly, the "system" has done it's own fair share of damage to kids, so I'd think long and hard before I introduced them to someone's family.
post #87 of 251
As a mother who has had a visit from CPS, your thread title got my attention. It's hard to know what to do, I'm sure. You only want to help.

But one thing I can tell you with authority, if you call, it cannot be undone. If your instincts are wrong; if the situation is not what it seems; if there is some reason you don't understand to explain the crying babies or the parents in the yard or the mother cussing in anger . . . it's too late once the call has been made. And it could result in a family being torn apart.

Think long and hard before doing something that could permanently harm a family that might just be going through a rough patch.
post #88 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakti A. View Post
For the record I have friends who parent in a fairly mainstream way who I think are good parents and friends who are about as AP as I consider myself to be who are absolute trainwrecks as parents. It's really not as simple, ime, as mainstream = bad and AP = good.
I agree. To say that mainstream parenting equals bad parenting is so completely ignorant.
post #89 of 251
1st one is none of your business.
2nd one is none of your business.
post #90 of 251
Thread Starter 
Hi again,

I looked up standards of what constitutes abuse, and like a PP said, only the withdrawal of appropriate supervision (i.e. purposefully not hearing) might possibly be considered abuse.

Cjanelles, you have summed up how I feel in your first paragraph or so. Thank you. I know I am hyper-sensitive to this kind of stuff, and it's so new to me to be this way. I mean I've always been "the sensitive one", but had frankly no clue what kind of emotional ride parenting was til now (and I'm still in intro classes so to speak!). Then to see abusive things done to others... the emotional sirens just start to go off and I'm blinded.

I do wonder what CPS is exactly, in my neck of the woods. Powerful or helpful, punishment or assistance... I don't know. I do know it's important to start educating myself. I would rather be painfully aware than assuming and ignorant.
post #91 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature View Post
FSM, I'd love to know where you live that CPS is "no big deal." Seriously. The invasion of privacy, the scrutiny, the lies against you, the twisting, the digging, the threats, the broken promises, the accusations without evidence.... I would never EVER say CPS wasn't a big deal. Just their involvement alone can break families, even if the child is never taken away.
Its been FOUR years and I still have not recovered from my experience. I have clinical Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of it.

It clearly can be a big deal.


I hear you! After our experience of being investigated for child abuse I was devastated. The complaint was based on our AP lifestyle, and was made by our ubermainstream neighbor. She was frustrated that she couldn't get me to parent the way she parented . . . the right way . . . and she couldn't talk any sense into me. The thought that we co-slept was perverted to her and the fact that I breastfed my one-year-old was clearly leading to his death by malnourishment.

Now, it is true that our boy is tiny, now and even more so when the call was made three years ago. I'm 5'7" and weigh 116 pounds, so I'm probably not likely to have a big bruiser of a child. Also, he had become sick only a month after starting solids and developed "a food aversion", so he was indeed skinny as he hit his first birthday.

So what if the call, coupled with the fact that he was visibly skinny, did appear to the CPS worker that he was being malnourished? I asked her what the worst case scenario was and she did admit foster care. I seriously doubt parenting lessons were the goal of my neighbor, or a possible outcome of the call.
post #92 of 251
[QUOTE=Nature;8090502]FSM, I'd love to know where you live that CPS is "no big deal." Seriously. The invasion of privacy, the scrutiny, the lies against you, the twisting, the digging, the threats, the broken promises, the accusations without evidence.... I would never EVER say CPS wasn't a big deal. Just their involvement alone can break families, even if the child is never taken away.
Its been FOUR years and I still have not recovered from my experience. I have clinical Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of it.

It clearly can be a big deal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, same thing here. 6 years later I still have PTSD - everytime there is a stange car in the driveway, everytime there is a knock at the door.
We were completely traumatized for no good reason by a social worker bent on control who obviously had issues & who totally abused her power. (if you want the story, I've posted about it at MDC a couple of times- recently in TAO)
post #93 of 251
with the first case, if the parents are outside, how do they know if a child fell out of the crib or fell and hit his/her head or if the cries are because they're hurt or just cio, that's sound like inadequate supervision to me, I don't think cps is the answer but something should be done, if they' can't hear the kids, isn't that the same as not being there at all??
post #94 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama View Post
Yep, same thing here. 6 years later I still have PTSD - everytime there is a stange car in the driveway, everytime there is a knock at the door.


Well I hope in 6 years you've at least conquered the fear of letting a layer of dust settle on your furniture, or more than 5 dishes accumulate in your sink. Oh my God! What if they come NOW? Just look at the toilet!
post #95 of 251
Both are most certainly neglect. And the parents should have to answer for what they are doing. BUT, if you call CPS, nothing will be done. I'd just have said something to the parents. Maybe not my place, but someone needs to speak up for those kids.
post #96 of 251
This really worries me that people are out there looking to call for things like this. What do you think is going to happen? CPS is going to give them friendly parenting tips that will make them come around to your point of view? They will be grateful that you made the call? Life will get better for the kids?

I'm pretty sure there is no chance of any of these things happening.
post #97 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
And you know, frankly it annoys me to think that someone is sitting there with her finger on the phone dial because someone is swearing around kids. Honest to pete, the Victorians have died out already.
I get my drama from reality tv, I don't need to manufacture it for my friends & neighbors.
post #98 of 251
Right, right. So we can all keep saying that CPS is the big nasty and therefore, we can feel good about turning blind eye to abusive situations? I guess nobody has any better ideas? I'm serious. If people have a great alternative or other things they'd do if they see someone calling their kids effing brats, get in the effing car? What if they said they were gonna get a belting/beating when they got home? Would that still not warrant a call?

Heffern, I am sorry you had a mean neighbor, they're usually the sort to report (along with family members) maliciously. But what ended up happening with CPS? Did they take your child away? Or did they say the allegations were unfounded and drop it? If someone makes allegations of neglect, they have to look into it - what if you weren't you, and you were a mom who was passed out on meth in the bedroom and didn't feed your kids all day? Does anyone acknowledge that this happens every day in America?

Kentucky, I couldn't find your story.The only thing that came up with a search of your username and cps on google is something about how you wish your husband would've called CPS on his ex for your DSS for neglect. So I guess you're not totally against CPS. Is that what you were referring to?
post #99 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
What if they said they were gonna get a belting/beating when they got home? Would that still not warrant a call?
I'm in Texas. You'd be laughed at if you called CPS over someone who said they were going to beat their kids.

It's expected.

Heck, schools can still paddle here. No one would blink at dad with a belt.

-Angela
post #100 of 251
I have called cps several times in the past for children being beaten (not spanked, beaten) in public, and once for a baby riding unrestrained in the bed of a pickup truck on the state highway. I would not report for the situations in the op because, unfortunately, those actions are not illegal. I absolutely think they should be illegal, but they are not, so there's nothing to report. I would call cps if I thought the child (not "the family," because I don't give a crap about inconveniencing an abuser) would be better off with governmental intervention in his life. I don't have a high opinion of governmental "services," so I would have to decide that whatever he was going through at the hands of his family was worse than whatever the state would do to him.
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