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post #21 of 63
IM not going to reply anymore in the best intrest of keeping this light.

I will moderate myself,
post #22 of 63
Of course boys and men can control what they do and say, but they can't always control the direction their thoughts and penises jump (inside their trousers of course!).

What we can teach our girls is that they are being unfair to their friends and schoolmates if they dress inappropriately because it will make it difficult to concentrate in school. I think most girls want to dress fashionably rather than provocatively, but they need to understand that today's fashions are provocative. We've all heard/read stories about boys having to hide erections when they get up from their seats. I'm not sure all girls understand the effect they're having.

I think it is totally appropriate to talk to the school about your concerns (without naming a specific child) and have them address the kids during health class or whenever.
post #23 of 63
Well thank the gods I homeschool so I don't have to feel obligated to censor my childs clothing lest she be an "unfair" distraction
post #24 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth S View Post
We've all heard/read stories about boys having to hide erections when they get up from their seats. I'm not sure all girls understand the effect they're having.
And this happens even when the girls are dressed like nuns. Boy's penises can be unpredictable. I would think we all know this.
post #25 of 63
spaghetti straps come up often as conversation.


If other students her age in her class can wear spaghetti straps then she should be allowed to too. If spaghetti straps are banned altogether than she should not.

I don't think a child should be punished for their bodies progressing at a different rate than their peers, you have no idea the complexes that can be given by telling a child who is already self conscious about their body that what they wear is wrong unless it is wrong for everyone else their age and they are not being singled out.
post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth S View Post
Of course boys and men can control what they do and say, but they can't always control the direction their thoughts and penises jump (inside their trousers of course!).

What we can teach our girls is that they are being unfair to their friends and schoolmates if they dress inappropriately because it will make it difficult to concentrate in school. I think most girls want to dress fashionably rather than provocatively, but they need to understand that today's fashions are provocative. We've all heard/read stories about boys having to hide erections when they get up from their seats. I'm not sure all girls understand the effect they're having.

I think it is totally appropriate to talk to the school about your concerns (without naming a specific child) and have them address the kids during health class or whenever.
To be honest during puberty a pretty girls face was enough to make the trooper stand at attention. What the girl wears really doesn't make a difference.

I know I've argued the other side of this debate before, but honestly the only dress code I can get behind is one that EVERYONE is held up to. I do agree that young women today probably dress too mature, but I remember when I was in school it was the same issue. So... you have to ask yourself.... Is it REALLY an issue? I don't think so, people should wear what they are comfortable in.

All that being said, if spaghetti straps are deemed appropriate for an 8 year old, and 18 years old but nothing in between? that just doesn't make sense. Just because a girl is developing should not make the clothes any more inappropriate than they were 2 years ago or that they will be any more appropriate in 8 more years.

And as for prebuscent and pubescent boys? They will be distracted by girls, or boys for that matter, during those years regardless of what the person they are fantasizing about is wearing.
post #27 of 63
I personally have never understood why spaghetti straps are so scandalous. I have worn a spaghetti strap camisole almost every day for the past, oh, 7 years, including half of high school. They're comfortable, great for layering, and incredibly versatile. It's mid May, and pushing 90 in Central Illinois. If I weren't pregnant and super bloated and not fitting an anything, I'd be wandering around in my normal spaghetti straps and shorts because that's what's comfortable and seasonably appropriate.

It bothers me quite a lot when people see a normal, simple shirt, and try to sexualize it.

As most people said, it's not anyone but her parent's place to comment on that girls' clothing. And the OP should definitely say something to her son. It's attitudes like that that make women's life hell. Because of people feeling compelled to comment on what I wear and how I look, I can't walk down the street without being harassed on a daily basis. And I'm guessing that these men's parents never told them it was wrong to comment on another person's clothing.
post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth S View Post
What we can teach our girls is that they are being unfair to their friends and schoolmates if they dress inappropriately because it will make it difficult to concentrate in school. I think most girls want to dress fashionably rather than provocatively, but they need to understand that today's fashions are provocative. We've all heard/read stories about boys having to hide erections when they get up from their seats. I'm not sure all girls understand the effect they're having.
I don't think that anyone should have to wonder if their clothing is too sexy. It is not being unfair to boys to have speg. straps on! They can handle it! Why do so many people still view boys as these wild beasts that you don't want to provoke???? Whether or not they might get an erection should NOT dictate what a girl wears.
post #29 of 63
Quote:
She wears the pants with words on her rear, and spaghetti straps that show way too much.
This is common wear for girls here, usually if just hanging out, playing sports, etc. I have seen much more mature/skimpy clothes on 10yo DD friends-short skirts with knee high socks, etc. And it is true, what is a sweet childs outfit on a prepubescent girl is often seen as scandelous on a developing/developed girl. It is up to each parent, not me.

Have I stopped my 10yo DD from wearing certain outfits? Yep. Some things stay in for dress up for her safety. I have taught her it isn't right that some people are gonna see her in that little dress an dressy shoes/boots and judge her or see it as an open door for whatever, but some will and I have to protect her. I tread lightly and she gets it, she has seen and heard how some people react. And she wears spaghetti straps now that it is warm, I never would see that as questionable for any girl.
post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
Well thank the gods I homeschool so I don't have to feel obligated to censor my childs clothing lest she be an "unfair" distraction
:

No kidding....

-Angela
post #31 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemomma View Post
I don't think that anyone should have to wonder if their clothing is too sexy. It is not being unfair to boys to have speg. straps on! They can handle it! Why do so many people still view boys as these wild beasts that you don't want to provoke???? Whether or not they might get an erection should NOT dictate what a girl wears.


-Angela
post #32 of 63
This is reminding me --- When my daughter was in 6th grade, I let her buy a pair of high, wedge-heeled shoes. The shoes were not something I would want to wear, but my daughter loved them, and I didn't think they were that bad. Well -- another mother called me to say, "I can't believe you're letting your daughter wear those shoes!"

To be honest, I wasn't offended at all -- it just seemed funny to me. I remember laughing when I hung up the phone. Not really laughing at the other woman, but just thinking that it was funny that someone was so upset by shoes that I hadn't given that much thought to. My daughter is in college now, but whenever I see that woman, I think of the "shoe incident." But she and I are always friendly when we see each other, we stop and say "how are you."
post #33 of 63
BTW, my DD and I discuss this stuff and it isn't exactly about just the boys. Realize, she wears whatever, I just say no to miniature bratz doll-kwim? Dress up for fun, don't do it just for the attention, the boys, etc. And realize the negative attention you may get if you wear certain things. Life is a lesson, when she is older it will be her choice.
post #34 of 63
I would talk to your DD about how we have different rules in our house than her friend does, and she will not be allowed to wear certain things that her friend is allowed to wear.

And I would talk to DS about respect for women, what kind of language is expected from him, etc. Just because this girl is wearing revealing clothing does NOT give him liscence to make innapropriate comments about her body. She's still a human being underneath.

It's not your place to talk to the girl, or her parents, about what she wears.
post #35 of 63
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses, all of your advice. I will just stick to my family's values. I agree that girls should not be judged by their clothes, I guess that is what I was doing. I've already talked to my son about his comments, just reminding him to be respectful of others.

Shan
post #36 of 63
As a feminist, I believe it is societies collective responsibility to teach both men and women to respect their bodies. And the bodies of others.

That being said, it is not our responsibility to say what it means to respect our OWN body. We can tell what it means to us (clothing that covers more of our bodies, exercise, good food, etc.) but we can't dictate to them what it means to them.... as much as we'd like to.

So I would try to bring up 3 different conversations:

Little Girl: how are you doing... yada yada. How's school - what are you learning. I really like your shoes today - don't you love how ballet slippers make your feet feel like..... how about dd, you and I look through some of the clothing mags... And when you are looking though talk about the history of womens clothing from bras, ect. Maybe point out some clothes and how men make comments and it sucks but we can't eradicate them from the face of the earth can we: !

DD - heart to heart about men and what YOUR expectations are for dress and WHY. Talk about protecting herself from men who have unscrupulous thoughts about her - whatever your reasons are.

DS - women are beautiful creatures aren't they. yesterday I saw something that really upset me. I saw some men whistling at a woman and saying inappropriate things - insert actual words you have heard - and I want to make sure that you know that men don't actually do that. When a man wants to have a relationship with a woman he befriends her and sometimes the relationship leads to a physical level. Sex..... is wonderful, beautiful, special, etc.

10-13 is a hard age for young girls. I know my parents didn't allow me to dress inappropriately.... which doesn't mean that I didn't. It sucks, but we have to support them (young ladies) in their decision. I didn't mellow out until after college when I had to have a professional wardrobe and I fell in love with some of the higher end stores that dealt with the more professional woman.... and I had no money to buy both.

Good luck, you may be the only adult who models your form of "appropriate behavior" for her.

disclaimer - this is just my opinion...
post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post
I don't think there's anything you can say - or should say. She's not sneaking out and putting these clothes on (or you don't say she is) so I assume they bought the clothes and know what she's wearing. Frankly, I would be really ticked if someone decided to have a talk with me about the appropriateness of my daughter's clothes. That's their call to make.

I don't know what to tell you if your daughter starts to try to copy the friend or try out her style, but I would not speak to the friend or her parents about her clothes. That's really their call.

You might consider speaking to your son about the appropriateness of making comments about young girl's bodies and clothes.
Yep, ITA

eta: I keep hearing about how spagetti straps are the issue but really isn't it more HOW the spag. straps fit? I mean, I wear spag straps and I'm, um, curvy but nothing shows. So, yeah, is she wearing spagetti straps that show her shoulders and neckline or is it showcasing abundant jiggling cleavage? Again, it's her call but I do see the distinction for myself at least.

And, yeah, as a Mom of Boys, I'd have an educational chat w/my sons about commenting on women's bodies.

And, yeah, as a wife of a male, I have been told that it's not the amount of cleavage, etc that's displayed to an adolescent male...it's more the fact that the body is female...
post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemomma View Post


I'm assuming you mean the saying "boys will be boys." I don't know where it comes from. Probably the same place that says "girls are sugar and spice and all things nice." :
What is it..."snips & snails & puppy dog tails?"
post #39 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4@38 View Post
well thats were these groovy girl dolls come in isnt it..
maybe offer the little girl a sweater. tell her she looks COLD..
just make sure you tell your daughter thats not the way you'd like to see her dress.. and comeon ladies,, boys will be boys.. i mean theres no excuse but really if you wear a top that shows your clevage are you going to get mad if a guy looks.. what do they excpect.........
I am dumbfounded by this post. THIS is where the seed of misogyny is planted. In the minds of our sons, and we as women and mothers need to be vigilent about teaching our sons to respect the minds and bodies of girls and women from the BEGINNING.
post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
I am dumbfounded by this post. THIS is where the seed of misogyny is planted. In the minds of our sons, and we as women and mothers need to be vigilent about teaching our sons to respect the minds and bodies of girls and women from the BEGINNING.
Wouldn't it be nice if the boys/men/girls/women respected the hearts and minds of others even if some choose to dress in a manner that emphasizes sexual attractiveness?

Why must "sexually HOT" and "respected" be exclusive?

Perhaps the reason is that young girls do not benefit from being sexually active, that choice is widely unwise, and thus these girls are seen as foolish. And it is a bit foolish either way -- foolish to be sexually involved as a child/young teen, or foolish to send a signal that is a clear biological sex invite when you don't intend to follow through.

Just musing. I woke up really early.
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