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Would you leave your child in a hotel room? - Page 8

post #141 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyTamara View Post
Think about it this way: Don`t you ever go outside on cold winterdays?

Haha, I've been living in south Florida for the past 11 years....the coldest it gets is about the 40s, and no.....I don't enjoy going outside in that weather

I was raised in Pennsylvania, with cold winters....but I was *always* cold. I've never been a fan of cold weather!

I'm not criticizing the Scandinavian practice at all--simply curious! The babies sound very cozy and happy in their snugglies and their prams
post #142 of 262
No, I would not. Not even with a baby monitor in a smaller hotel- I remember reading in a blog about someone doing this, and it surprised me. Too many flights up (usually), too many people with access to keys, too unfamiliar for the child.
I'm not perfect, but I just wouldn't.
Although, thinking...I don't travel much. I could see how, maaayyybe if the kid were out and you thought you were close, how it could maybe be tempting if you could see the room or something. But I still think that's wrong- I hope I wouldn't do it (certainly wouldn't now). Still seems unfair to a child should they wake up alone. It's still not your house- too many other people, noises, distractions.
post #143 of 262
I have one thing to say about Scandanavian babies and prams. I lived in Russia, near Scandanavia (in Karelia) for two years. They also occasionally leave babies outside to sleep in prams. The reason is otherwise the baby will get HOT in all those clothes, and they don't think it's good for the baby to keep waking him or her to dress/undress. Times have changed in Russia and unfortunately the practice was getting more dangerous because of the social disruption following the end of communism, but climate-wise, it was the same deal.

I always worried about DD in the cold winter we had: we'd be out in the cold, she'd be all bundled in the carrier, then I'd go inside and I couldn't take her out of the wrap and undress her in every single store. Besides waking her and making her VERY cranky, that is. But I think she did get very hot in some stores. I tried not to stay very long. I appreciate the fact that I should do everything for my baby but... Occasionally shopping does not seem to me like such a horrible thing to do, parenting-wise.
post #144 of 262
Thread Starter 
What about the other risks that we all take every day? When does taking precautions get to the point where we are being overprotective? At what point does being lax lull us into a false sense of security and cause us to make unwise decisions? We will be going to a Club Med this summer and have signed up our DD (who will be 3) for the "Mini-Club", which I am hoping she will love. Will she be safe there? The child-adult ratio will be within the legal requirements but what if the adults are preoccopied with other children for a couple of minutes and a stranger takes my DD, or she runs into the pool?? Another example, the grocery store. DD likes to sit in the cart for a while but then she wants to get out and walk. Periodically, I have to look at the shelves to pick the food that I want to buy so of course, my eyes are not always on DD. Should I keep her in "shopping cart prison" the whole time? Or is it better to teach her to stick by me, at the risk of losing her a couple of times in the store or even something worse?

Regarding people who have keys to the hotel room, note that the McCann's case was a real break-in through the window. It was not the case of an employee with a key to the room. But of course there is also that risk. I am thinking that the real risk factor in the McCann case, however, was that the room was on the main floor and anyone could get access through the window. I keep thinking about those poor parents and that poor little girl. I sure hope they find her.
post #145 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
What about the other risks that we all take every day? When does taking precautions get to the point where we are being overprotective? At what point does being lax lull us into a false sense of security and cause us to make unwise decisions?
Good points. I guess each parent has to assess *their perceived* potential risk of each situation and determine their course of action based on that. For me, I can't imagine a situation in which leaving my child unattended in a hotel room would seem like a reasonable risk to take, and I certainly can't imagine referring to the refusal to do so as overprotective.

I, too, am very sad for the McCann family, and FWIW I'd never walk up to them and say, "Nice job letting your daughter get kidnapped," -- I wouldn't offer them anything but the most sincere compassion and kindness -- but since this is a discussion board, I guess I'm talking more conceptually and generally about the scenario rather than literally pointing a finger at that father and that mother.

[Thanks to the pps who explained about why babies are left outside stores in some countries -- for some reason I hadn't thought of the overheating factor! I looooved using my BundleMe when DS was tiny because he could be all snug when we were outside and then I could open it up to give him some ventilation when we were inside. But I'm in Southern California, so I do admit that my experience with extreme temperatures is rather limited! ]
post #146 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post
Good points. I guess each parent has to assess *their perceived* potential risk of each situation and determine their course of action based on that. For me, I can't imagine a situation in which leaving my child unattended in a hotel room would seem like a reasonable risk to take, and I certainly can't imagine referring to the refusal to do so as overprotective.

I, too, am very sad for the McCann family, and FWIW I'd never walk up to them and say, "Nice job letting your daughter get kidnapped," -- I wouldn't offer them anything but the most sincere compassion and kindness -- but since this is a discussion board, I guess I'm talking more conceptually and generally about the scenario rather than literally pointing a finger at that father and that mother.
Very, very well said. I find it criminal to leave 3 toddlers alone in a hotel room for half an hour. At least with my own toddler, that would simply be asking for something horrific to happen. And I can't help but wonder if it's because the parents are two rich white doctors that they aren't being called out by the media for what they did.
This story has just been haunting me and I feel such deep sorrow for Madeleine. I hope they find her.
post #147 of 262
Nope...haven't done it and wouldn't do it. No matter how inconvenient it may be. When truly necessary, we pick our sleeping tots up and pop them into a sling...and hope they go back to sleep. Otherwise, we just wait with them until they wake up. Great opportunity to take a nice bath in the tub, watch a grown-up movie, read, splurge on room service, etc...

I wouldn't feel comfortable hiring a stranger to watch my kids, either. Maybe I just haven't been in enough of a pinch... I don't know.

We've talked about paying to bring along a trusted babysitter from home and will probably try that out someday. Or just cajole the grandparents into coming...
post #148 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStarMom View Post
And I can't help but wonder if it's because the parents are two rich white doctors that they aren't being called out by the media for what they did.
No, it is because people in the UK are aware of the circumstances of how it happened (that the parents did so under a false sense of security - MANY parents were doing the same in the resort) and know that the price these parents are paying is already high enough. Also we all feel like something so horrible can happen to anyone, even to those of us who would never leave their children alone

As I said earlier, I always found it amazing at how little compassion Americans seem to demonstrate to stories they hear in the news: it is like anger is the automatic reaction. I remember that in the 5 years I lived there, whenever there were news of a child dying, they ALWAYS had a comment like: "police is considering to press charges against the parents" There were no tragedies, no freak accidents - somebody HAS to pay :

And yes, you can throw your tomatoes : I am just fed up of reading horrible things about Madeleine's family in American websites (generally) while for the most part, only finding compassion and support in European ones
post #149 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
Regarding people who have keys to the hotel room, note that the McCann's case was a real break-in through the window. It was not the case of an employee with a key to the room. But of course there is also that risk. I am thinking that the real risk factor in the McCann case, however, was that the room was on the main floor and anyone could get access through the window.

That may be my post you are referring to, and I was referring to someone who shared a story about people doing the same thing, but from 9pm to 3am, not checking on the child, in Las Vegas. I'm seriously doubting there is a high level of background checks on every hotel employee in Las Vegas. I would personally never sleep in a room in any hotel without the extra, can only be opened from the inside latches/locks, so I would never leave a child there without those in place.

It sounds like the resort in Portugal is really nice and probably had good background checks on employees.

But Vegas is a little too wild of a place for me to be trusting anyone.
post #150 of 262
Nope - I would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. We travel a lot and stay in many hotels and it has never crossed my mind to leave them even for a second.
post #151 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
No, it is because people in the UK are aware of the circumstances of how it happened (that the parents did so under a false sense of security - MANY parents were doing the same in the resort) and know that the price these parents are paying is already high enough. Also we all feel like something so horrible can happen to anyone, even to those of us who would never leave their children alone

As I said earlier, I always found it amazing at how little compassion Americans seem to demonstrate to stories they hear in the news: it is like anger is the automatic reaction. I remember that in the 5 years I lived there, whenever there were news of a child dying, they ALWAYS had a comment like: "police is considering to press charges against the parents" There were no tragedies, no freak accidents - somebody HAS to pay :

And yes, you can throw your tomatoes : I am just fed up of reading horrible things about Madeleine's family in American websites (generally) while for the most part, only finding compassion and support in European ones
You're absolutely right!
post #152 of 262
I agree. I'm paranoid about leaving my kids out of my sight. I lived in the Dallas area when a little girl was snatched off her bicycle and killed, and it terrified me.
People leave their children in hot cars every summer and they die from heat exhaustion. But in some places it's commonplace to leave minors unattended. Here in Hawaii I can't believe how many really little children are taking care of their younger siblings after school with no adult supervision. It's common for a 10 year old to be the oldest one in charge! I can't imagine leaving my 10 year old 'in charge.'

It makes you wonder how people can be so unaware.....but I think this girl's poor parents have probably been punished enough by the media attention and the anguish they are going through. I can't imagine how awful they must feel, or how terrifying it would be to not know where your child was, or if they were even alive.

Even when a parent does something this dumb I can't say they deserve to lose one of their kids. We've all done things at one time or another that in retrospect could have had tragic results given the right combination of circumstances. No matter what we think of these parents, all the charges and recrimination in the world aren't going to help. People who take children are pretty crafty, remember Polly Klaas? At this stage of the game, how she came to be missing isn't even the issue. Finding her is.
post #153 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
I remember that in the 5 years I lived there, whenever there were news of a child dying, they ALWAYS had a comment like: "police is considering to press charges against the parents" There were no tragedies, no freak accidents - somebody HAS to pay :
I've noticed the "somebody has to pay" attitude myself. I wonder how Europeans have managed to rise above it?
post #154 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I've noticed the "somebody has to pay" attitude myself. I wonder how Europeans have managed to rise above it?
Or why Americans feel the need to sink down to it?
post #155 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
As I said earlier, I always found it amazing at how little compassion Americans seem to demonstrate to stories they hear in the news: it is like anger is the automatic reaction. I remember that in the 5 years I lived there, whenever there were news of a child dying, they ALWAYS had a comment like: "police is considering to press charges against the parents" There were no tragedies, no freak accidents - somebody HAS to pay :
I've noticed this too.

Have you heard the expression, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me"? Stories in the American media have changed this saying to "fool me once shame on me". It is almost as if the media (and a lot of the public) blames victims for being insufficiently cynical. That's why I don't pay attention to the mainstream media here.
post #156 of 262
I would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room (not even my 9 year old!) for more than a minute (within sight of the door). If I'd need to be gone more than that, I'd take the kids. I'm just now to the point that I will leave my 9 year old in the car with her younger siblings if I am running in some place where it will be quick, and I can see the car from where I am. I leave her a cell phone, so she can call mine or 911 in case of an emergency (that's mostly for her feeling of security, because I stay in sight).

As a parent, I have blamed myself for stupid decisions that have caused my children harm. For example, I let my older kids go outside while my ex was mowing the lawn, because they were whining about it (I always made them stay outside, and my ex and the kids always gave me grief.) The *ONE* time I allowed it, there was an accident, and my DD was blinded in one eye by a rock. It was a total fluke accident- the rock came from from a strange angle- but to the day I die, I will blame myself for letting those kids go outside when I, as a parent, knew there were risks. Plenty of parents allow their kids outside with no harm, but it happened to me.

I can't blame these parents for something bad happening, I am sure they blame themselves enough, but I do think that is negligent, and I would think so even if nothing bad happened.
post #157 of 262
CrunchyCate,
post #158 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post
Or why Americans feel the need to sink down to it?
Good point.

But I just wondered if someone could give us some insight into the European way of looking at horrible misfortunes.

Since so many Americans have this "automatic pilot" response of blaming someone, anyone, for every. single. thing. that goes wrong -- I don't know if we're so much "sinking" as just "staying' in that mentality.

Is it that Europeans are more comfortable with releasing control over their lives? Meaning, I think many of us who blame the victim, do so because it helps us maintain a sense of control over what happens to us. Just so long as we're never that "irresponsible" or "naive" or whatever -- that horrible thing will never happen to us or our loved ones.

How do Europeans "deal?"
post #159 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Good point.

But I just wondered if someone could give us some insight into the European way of looking at horrible misfortunes.

Since so many Americans have this "automatic pilot" response of blaming someone, anyone, for every. single. thing. that goes wrong -- I don't know if we're so much "sinking" as just "staying' in that mentality.

Is it that Europeans are more comfortable with releasing control over their lives? Meaning, I think many of us who blame the victim, do so because it helps us maintain a sense of control over what happens to us. Just so long as we're never that "irresponsible" or "naive" or whatever -- that horrible thing will never happen to us or our loved ones.

How do Europeans "deal?"
Actually, I think it's because Europeans are less obsessed with parenting in general and in particular less obsessed with trying to make themselves look like perfect parents by putting down other parents. They are also more likely to make a realistic evaluation of danger and understand that though things like this do happen, they happen pretty damn rarely so it makes no sense to blame the parents for it when it does happen. They blame the perp instead. Radical, huh:
post #160 of 262
There's a HUGE difference between running in to pay for gas, out to check the mail, or to the bathroom and leaving your children unsupervised in a hotel room in a foreign country while you go out to eat and for drinks. I would NOT leave my young toddlers in a hotel room or a house or anywhere without an adult to go out for dinner and/or to have drinks. I think anyone who would needs to take some parenting classes to learn what can (and look what DID) happen when children are left alone. I'm not saying we should blame the victim, but the fact is that if they had been supervising their children, this wouldn't have happened. The fact is anything can happen when you leave little ones alone to go out to eat. A temporary lapse of judgement is understandable, we all make mistakes. But come on, you don't leave your 4 year old home alone to go out to eat, and you certainly don't do it in a hotel room where there's a spare key down there, and the maids have keys, etc. That's not comparable to your child getting hit by a rock because you were mowing. Leaving your kid alone while you go eat dinner is foolish, and now I have one more reason not to do it. I hope these people get their daughter back safe and sound, but I really hope they think twice the next time they don't feel liek bringing their children to dinner.
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