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Would you leave your child in a hotel room? - Page 12

post #221 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imogen View Post
Does it take more or less energy to judge someone, than it is to feel compassion for them?

How does it feel to judge parents, especially a Mother who looks so ill, distressed and heartbroken she looks on the verge of physical collapse?

What purpose does judging these parents serve? Is it actually producing anything positive to help these parents? Is it helping to ease their pain in anyway?

If Maddy is not found, her parents will have to live with their decision for the rest of their lives.... while all those judging and condemning Maddy's parents will return to their normal lives in days, weeks, months and years to come, as it becomes another forgotten news story, Maddy's parents will be waking everyday with the knowledge of what may have happened to their daughter.

I have no judgement for them, they have my deepest sympathy.

Peace
:
post #222 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
I would never express anything but my deepest condolences to the family. But, I do think it's appropriate to discuss these sorts of things away from them. I would not want to add to their grief or guilt, but I do feel like people are entitled to their reactions.

Just as people are entitled to their reactions to the person who took Maddie. Surely some people out there feel compassion for this abductor and would call for nothing but forgiveness and understanding of the probably awful things that brought him to this place. I think its fine to feel whatever, but to criticize others for not feeling that same way? I don't get that. To say that people whose gut reaction to him are less than compassionate have sunk to a lower level or that they shouldn't feel that way or express it--I dunno....if that's where you are with it, cool. But not everyone else is, you know?
You make a very good point. I have a hard time feeling compassion for people who abduct children, and for people who use them for financial gain in the child sex-trade (which I hope isn't what happened here but somehow fear it could be). Yet if I learned anything about the childhoods of the people who end up using children like this -- maybe I would feel some compassion. I know I was able to gain some compassion for terrorists after learning more about their backgrounds.

But I also agree with the pp's who argue that compassion isn't a finite quality. Also, regarding the poster who said she could feel compassion but not pity for the parents -- well, I actually think compassion is a deeper form of love than pity. So, if you're saying you feel pity for parents of lost children who don't have J.K. Rowling and a website, and for the lost children, but compassion for these wealthy parents -- well, you're actually preferring them over the poor parents with lost children?

Of course, maybe you're saying you feel deep compassion for ALL involved in cases like this, but reserve your pity for the poor, and for the lost children. So the latter two groups get BOTH pity and compassion, while Maddy's parents just get compassion?

Really, I think for the purposes of this thread, the words "pity," "feel sorry for," and "compassion" kind of have the same meaning. But if it helps some to make these sorts of distinctions, and "reserve" certain emotions for certain groups -- I agree with monkey's mom that everyone's entitled to their own reaction. We're expressing our opinions on a message board, not harassing Maddy's parents.
post #223 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electra375 View Post
OMG!!! They left a child and her 2, 2 yr old sibs in a room while they had dinner!!! That is horribly selfish. She's 3!!! Sleeping or not, no child that age should be left alone EVER!

I've stayed at many hotels with my children (From 1 to now 4) and I've not left my children to even unload the van, they came with me in a single file line back and forth as I unloaded our bags.

That "Single File Line" thing is creepier than leaving your kids in the room. What if one of them got hit in the parking lot? While you had your arms full of stuff and multiple children? I can't imagine. Sounds like fun!
post #224 of 262
There was a post about this on the board a long time ago...someone wanted to know whether or not it was okay to leave her child alone at a bed & breakfast place to go eat breakfast.

I think the general consensus of the thread was that we, in America, live in a culture of fear. We think things that are very rare should always be accounted for and ignore things that happen all the time. I don't remember the exact statistics, but I think your child is more likely to die from food poisoning from eating fast food than he is to be kidnapped. Yet people rush to say they'd never leave a child alone on that 1 in a million chance that their child might be taken, but don't hesitate over buying them McDonalds for lunch.

That's not to say I would leave my children alone, but the fear of kidnapping wouldn't even be a factor in my decision. It would be for other reasons already stated - my son doesn't sleep without me anyway, and if he did I wouldn't want him to wake up in a strange place and be scared. He might get into trouble, ect.

The point in, professionals who take children will take them at any shot. And no one is perfect enough to avoid every single split second where your children could be taken. The "huge risk" that these parents took was in 3 children under 3 getting themselves hurt or in trouble. The risk that someone would break in and take one of the children is so minute and yes it happened but how many people do this every day in other countries and never have their children taken?
post #225 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post

But I also agree with the pp's who argue that compassion isn't a finite quality. Also, regarding the poster who said she could feel compassion but not pity for the parents -- well, I actually think compassion is a deeper form of love than pity. So, if you're saying you feel pity for parents of lost children who don't have J.K. Rowling and a website, and for the lost children, but compassion for these wealthy parents -- well, you're actually preferring them over the poor parents with lost children?
no, to clarify what I am saying; I can understand their suffering for having lost their child; I can 'suffer with' [this is the meaning of compassion] them in this respect.

But, I have trouble understanding how they could leave these small children alone. I cannot pretend to understand something that I do not understand. I just can't wrap my mind around this...

I have trouble with the word "pity," reading Nietzsche will do that to you. And I don't select or "prefer" one set of people having experienced evil over another set of people experiencing evil. But evil exists in the world; and all we can do is ask for His Mercy and try to be that Mercy in the world.

There is also something voyeuristic about this whole media circus that doesn't sit right with me... There are children and family members kidnapped in Iraq (just to name one case) every day. Why don't we see these children's faces in the media everyday? Or does the frequency and number make us loose interest?

I am not really drawing any conclusions; I am not saying that these people are light-skinned and rich and therefore they are more interesting to the media and the world. I am observing am remarking.
post #226 of 262
Well, the bed-and-breakfasts I stayed in in Britain were peoples' HOMES: going to breakfast means you walk from the bedroom to the dining room. Somewhat different from leaving one building to go to another.

Still, since I wouldn't know everyone staying there -- I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my child in one part of the house while I was in another. Just because it's a home, that doesn't mean it's identical to being in my OWN home, or the home of a friend or family member where I know everyone.
post #227 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post
But, I have trouble understanding how they could leave these small children alone. I cannot pretend to understand something that I do not understand. I just can't wrap my mind around this...
As I've shared before, it's waaay outside my frame-of-reference, too. But I just know these parents must be really torn apart right now.

Quote:
There is also something voyeuristic about this whole media circus that doesn't sit right with me... There are children and family members kidnapped in Iraq (just to name one case) every day. Why don't we see these children's faces in the media everyday? Or does the frequency and number make us loose interest?

I am not really drawing any conclusions; I am not saying that these people are light-skinned and rich and therefore they are more interesting to the media and the world. I am observing am remarking.
You may have a point there. I'm still glad this family's being helped: I just wish, like you, that there was equal treatment for poor families who experience this.

I also think there may be some point in what other posters have said -- about press/police making more negative assumptions about poor and/or darker-skinned people who've left their children for the same amount of time. There may be some racism involved in that.

That said, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of negative assumptions being made about these rich, white parents. I'm just still hoping to hear the little girl is found, and that she's all right.
post #228 of 262
It's not about culture differences. It's about what can happen to a child without parental supervision That a culture is comfortable with something or that something is the norm doesn't make it responsible. Vaxing is the norm here; it's what we do as a culture. Does that make it responsible?
post #229 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
It's not about culture differences. It's about what can happen to a child without parental supervision That a culture is comfortable with something or that something is the norm doesn't make it responsible. Vaxing is the norm here; it's what we do as a culture. Does that make it responsible?
No, but at the same time, I disagree with the people who talk about parents who vax, or circumcise, as if they're horrible criminals intent on harming and mutilating their children. I say this even though I've had some condemn me for not vaxing.
post #230 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
It's not about culture differences. It's about what can happen to a child without parental supervision That a culture is comfortable with something or that something is the norm doesn't make it responsible. Vaxing is the norm here; it's what we do as a culture. Does that make it responsible?
The culture part of it is understanding their neck of the woods, so to speak. I lived in an area where there were armed guards at each entrance of the compound when I was growing up. Were my parents wrong to place me in a situation where armed guards were a necessity? The answer will be different for each person.

The fact that you can't wrap your brain around doing things differently doesn't make it wrong. It makes you unaware of the culture. It doesn't make you right and them wrong. It makes each culture comfortable where they are.

As far as vaxing...eye of the beholder I would say. Does it make a person irresponsible to choose unassisted homebirth, homebirth, homeschooling, unschooling, public schooling, or any number of parental choices? No. It is the person who knows their culture or their environment and makes those choices based on that knowledge.
post #231 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini View Post
The culture part of it is understanding their neck of the woods, so to speak. I lived in an area where there were armed guards at each entrance of the compound when I was growing up. Were my parents wrong to place me in a situation where armed guards were a necessity? The answer will be different for each person.

The fact that you can't wrap your brain around doing things differently doesn't make it wrong. It makes you unaware of the culture. It doesn't make you right and them wrong. It makes each culture comfortable where they are.

As far as vaxing...eye of the beholder I would say. Does it make a person irresponsible to choose unassisted homebirth, homebirth, homeschooling, unschooling, public schooling, or any number of parental choices? No. It is the person who knows their culture or their environment and makes those choices based on that knowledge.
Very well said! And just what I was trying to get at a few pages back on this thread when I brought up the question (which no one answered) as to whether it was neglectful to bring up a child in the US (gun violence, high crime, etc.).
post #232 of 262
I think it's shades of risk.

Is it risky to have guns in a locked safe? In an unlocked safe? Laying around the house? Loaded, on the coffee table?

There's always risk in life. No doubt. But, I don't know that you can leave a loaded gun on the coffee table and when a child gets hurt with it, default to, "Well, life's full of risks. Driving is risky, too." If the parents where not willing to take reasonable measures to lock up the guns and protect the kids' safety, then it doesn't matter if the dog accidently knocked the gun off and it fired and hurt someone. Just b/c it's a freak thing, doesn't mean that the parents shouldn't do more to protect the kids.

Leaving kids in a hotel room, of that young age, and not being able to hear them or see them, and checking on them in 1/2 hour intervals seems like a lot more risk than one should reasonably take to have a nice dinner.

In most cases in the US, as I understand it, the child protective service laws are kind of in hindsight. So, if a child is left alone and suffers and injury, or picks up a loaded gun and hurts himself or someone else, there is a sort of "after the fact" decision made that b/c the child was harmed, there is a ruling of "neglect." It's not necessarily against the law to leave kids unsupervised with loaded guns, and it's probably a cultural norm in some places to do just that, but if a kid is hurt as a result it seems like there can be repurcussions and charges afterwards. I think that's fairly reasonable, myself. That people are making allegations of "neglect" against this family seems logical to me given the risks they took and the outcome.
post #233 of 262
My heart totally goes out to Maddie's parents. I agree with the poster about "degree of risk"--obviously, to them, it seemed reasonable to go for dinner. And maybe their comfort level is higher than many other posters but they felt that they were close enough/the hotel was secure enough that this was okay.

I just grieve for them. No one should have to go what they are going through right now.

That said, I might have done something similar. We go to a B&B in Stowe, Vt every year, and I would have felt VERY comfortable leaving my little girl (also named Maddie) in a room with siblings while we were downstairs, eating.
post #234 of 262
Madskye...I was wondering if anyone would have the courage to say that they might see themselves doing something similar to the Mcanns.

I just cant believe how unsympathetic some people are being.:
My DS just turned 4 on April 2nd and I just don't know how I could even keep breathing if something like this happened to him. I feel so bad for this poor family. I really hope they find Maddie.
post #235 of 262
I will never let my kids alone in a hotel room, never.

In this case, i don't pity the parents I'm afraid for the child, becuase of their irresponsability they kidnapped their daughter.
And about culture, my husband is British as well and he will never let the kids alone in the hotel room:
post #236 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummyto3girls View Post
I will never let my kids alone in a hotel room, never.

In this case, i don't pity the parents I'm afraid for the child, becuase of their irresponsability they kidnapped their daughter.
And about culture, my husband is British as well and he will never let the kids alone in the hotel room:
And all this time, I thought it was some sicko. : The words I have for you, I can't say here.
post #237 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonprysm View Post
And all this time, I thought it was some sicko. : The words I have for you, I can't say here.
My thoughts exactly.

Wow.

Attachment parenting and gentle discipline are concepts that begin & end with children, I guess. Too bad that they don't necessarily translate into compassion for adults.
post #238 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
You are "radically" mistaken


The British may not be blaming the parents, but DH who just returned from a trip to Spain and Portugal (where this occurred) reports that the media there AND the "person on the street" is 100 percent blaming the parents for being so selfish as to leave their kids alone so that they could have dinner!

So saying that "Europeans" are not blaiming the parents and don't feel this bevhior was neglectful is simply not correct.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18726957/
Here in Norway the media is NOT blaming the parents. Not at all. And "the person on the street" isn`t either. Not in a big scale, anyway.
post #239 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by kymholly View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Wow.

Attachment parenting and gentle discipline are concepts that begin & end with children, I guess. Too bad that they don't necessarily translate into compassion for adults.
Yeah... This thread makes me sad.
post #240 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonprysm View Post
And all this time, I thought it was some sicko. : The words I have for you, I can't say here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kymholly View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Wow.

Attachment parenting and gentle discipline are concepts that begin & end with children, I guess. Too bad that they don't necessarily translate into compassion for adults.
But, you don't feel compassion for the "sicko."

Which I can understand, but what if someone was telling you the above b/c you don't feel "pity" for the abductor?

Because you think he did something terrible and reprehensible?

I think some of us feel like that about the parents' actions, too.
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