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WWYT - boy kissing girls nipples

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
[ETA] There is a more detailed post below for those who only read the original post
I'll set the stage and get some thoughts:

Almost 3 year old girl playing with newly 5 year old boy, sweet neighbor friends who grew up around each other. Mom in the room eating lunch while clothed kids play in room and in a popup tent with attached tunnel. Kids get quiet, you peek in tent and ask what they are playing. They are playing puppies (common pretend play for these kids) and little girl is in puppy stance (on all fours). Sit back down again and listen to kids play. Boy goes to the bathroom, leaves door open, keep girl out of bathroom. They head back into tent. Minutes later girl goes the bathroom, girl keeps door open, keep boy out of bathroom. Boy waits for girl. Girl comes out of bathroom (didn't flush toilet), help girl get re-dressed. Boy goes into bathroom, a minute goes by, boy flushes toilet. Kids go back to playing in room and tunnel and tent. Play in tent gets quiet followed by kissing sounds. Mom heads over to tent, hears girl say she doesn't want to get undressed. Mom sees girl and boy facing each other, girls shirt is pulled down to her waist, stuffed puppy tucked under girls shirt by her waist. Ask what kids are playing, boy doesn't answer, "looks guilty", girl responds "babies". Get kids out of tent, send boy outside, ask girl what happened, says boy kissed her "here" pulls down shirt and points to nipple and "and here on my nipple", points to other nipple. Go outisde. Ask boy what they were doing in tent. Boy doesn't respond. Ask again. Boy says he won't do it again. Ask again. Boy says "I kissed her on accident". Tell boy not to ever touch or kiss girl again. Tell boy he needs to go home. Girl cries because boy has to go home. Walk boy him. Boy says 5 times "I won't do it again". Boy runs ahead home. Get to boys home and ring bell. Boy is hiding, boys mom (mom's are friends) asks what happened, says she will ask boy. Wait outside. Boys mom comes back out, boy didn't give coherent answer, just babbled. TBoy and mom talk more inside. Boys mom returns outside and says boy said he "kissed girls bottom". Tell boys mom above info.

I am looking for general thoughts about this scenario, tell me what you think please.
post #2 of 20
Is he familiar with nursing? If they were playing puppies maybe he was nursing from her?
post #3 of 20
While I think it's obviously normal behavior to be "pretend kissing" I think it's odd that he kissed her on her nipples and not just on her mouth. It makes me think he must've seen this somewhere.

I would bring it up with the mom and have her talk with her son. It wouldn't be ok with me for him to be kissing my dd on the nipples. I'd also have a short, lighthearted, age appropriate talk with my dd about kissing, private parts, and keeping our clothes on.

ETA: I didn't think about the nursing thing. That could be where he has seen that.
post #4 of 20
Did the girl seem upset by it? It honestly sounds to me like they were playing "nursing." DD (2.5) is always offering to nurse people. But what was going on in the bathroom?
post #5 of 20
I know someone will come along and write this much more eloquently than I will but, I think there was a strong and unnecessary overreaction that evoked a lot of shame and embarrasment for both kids, but especially the boy.

He's five. I think some very clear explaining about appropriate touch, including explanations that you always stop touching/kissing anyone anywhere as soon as they ask would've been appropriate. I would've said something like, "It's okay to kiss your friends on the hand or on the cheek, but you should check with them first to be sure they want a kiss (or a hug or whatever)."

Repeatedly asking a child something that they are denying is shaming and embarrassing. I would've said, "Boy name, girl name said you kissed her nipples. (noting I'm not asking. I'm just stating what I've been told) That makes us both uncomfortable. You may not do that again."

And that would've been followed by either continued but directly supervised play or by announcing matter of factly that the play date was over, followed by a walk home and then giving the mom a phone call letting her know what happened.

I'm guessing this was your daughter (and I could be wrong; maybe you are the mother of the boy or maybe this happened to others entirely). Either way, the mother of the girl was clearly and understandably feeling protective, but I think the reaction was extreme and probably made both children feel as if they had done something very wrong and very shameful, which I don't think either of them did.
post #6 of 20
Originally Posted by ani'smommy View Post
Did the girl seem upset by it?
It says in the OP that the girl was heard saying that she didn't want to get undressed. This concerns me and if it were my child, I would have probably reacted very strongly based on that. It doesn't sound like a consensual game and that is not Ok.
post #7 of 20
I agree with Shonah'smom that the response was very shaming.

I would have assumed they were playing nursing (dd has been weaned for a year and a half but still pretends to nurse from her dad and I to be silly).

I think stepping in to say "Girl's name doesn't want to play like that. Please come up with something else to do" would have sufficed.

Chasing the boy back home and going back and forth with his mom certainly embarrassed and shamed him unnecessarily.
post #8 of 20
Seems like the boy was just curious, but technically knew he shouldn't have been doing it. Really, not a big deal to me. I'd simply have asked him to please not play that game again since little girl doesn't want to. And kissing is for cheeks, hands, etc.

I would not let them play in the tent again for a while. They'd need to be out where I could see them at all times.

And I'd tell DD that she needs to make sure that her places are hers and that no one else touches them right now. Nipples are a huge deal, but they are hers, not the little boys. We'd have a talk about saying "NO!" when someone is asking us to do things we don't want to or don't feel comfortable with.
post #9 of 20
Originally Posted by tiffer23 View Post
Seems like the boy was just curious, but technically knew he shouldn't have been doing it.

I'm not sure that he did. I think a lot of the reaction of the boy is a direct result from the immediate and pretty intense reaction of the mom of the girl.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Ok, I wrote that post with the intention of having people just look at the incident, and trying to get some ideas on what people felt. If this was something to be concerned about or just 'doctor' type play. I did not explain that clearly. I also purposely left direct quotes and emotion out of it so the focus was more on the activity, I seem to not have done achieved my goal. I will give you some background, and explain my responses as the mother of the girl.

We are an AP family living in a rural suburb in the bible belt. We are the only family I know of in our neighborhood who nurses. This boy was not breastfed, and I have not breastfed in front of him. DD self weaned a month or so ago, after a long period of only nursing at night. As far as I know this boy doesn't even know what a nipple is. His family has personal and religious convictions that prevent them from using actual terminology for body parts.

We have had no issues with this boy and he plays with our 6 year old and his two older brothers (10 and 11). I had no reason to suspect anything innapropriate was going on. This is probably the 2nd time he and our 2 year old have played together w/o either ones siblings who were all at school today. His mom and dad both work and he stays home with grandma and sometimes gma and gpa.

Some of the things I said that I simplified purposely to save reading time and emotion:
When I went over to the tent to see what they were doing: "What are you two playing?" In a curious, lighthearted tone. Not accusatory.

sent him outside: "Ok, we're done playing with the tent. I will put it away and we will go outside and play on the swingset" (Boy runs outside on his own giving me a minute to ask DD in private on our way out about what happened - at this point I also said to boy to give me more time with DD "Hey (boys name) why don't you show me how high you can swing on your own w/o anyone pushing")

asked the boy what happened: "Hey (boys name) what were you and DD playing in the tent" At this point I was intentionally not trying to be accusatory or degrading because I wanted his personal view. I did not want to put any ideas into his head and wanted to give him the chance to tell me on his own. I felt I was being pretty fair here. I did not get in his face or raise my voice (that is not something I am inclined to do). I remained calm and removed from him (on the deck where he was on the playground on the side of the yard) to not intimidate.

Tell boy not to ever touch or kiss girl again: "(boys name) it's not ok to kiss DD there or to touch her body"

Tell boy he needs to go home "Ok kids, playdates over, (boys names) mom is probably done with her phone calls (she was working from home today) and we have to go get DD's sister from school" Boy runs home, as he does all the time.

It went on like that. When we went to the moms house I stayed outside with DD to give them the space to talk about it on their own, to give them the space. When they had their time I went in with DD and had a cup of coffee with mom and we mused about it and doctors play in kids. I won't go in with the direct quotes and hope you can infer from above how I reacted. I feel I handled it eloquently, and I offered boys mom a hug.

I didn't want to make a big deal out of it all, especially in front of DD who is too young to understand or infer negativity in the whole thing.

So, is this normal doctors play or something more to be concerned about?

Thanks for your replies mamas.

[ETA] At this point I am not worried for our DD about this incident. I am though wondering if we should be concerned for the 5 year old boy, if this is a possible warning flag of something happening to him by someone outside his immediate family. And no, this was not a consenual act. DD is still two, and the boy is 5. There was no reciprocation on DD's part and she has never before asked anyone to nurse on her nipple (though our eldest who nursed till age 4 loved to pretend play nursing). She seemed to be doing 'what she was told' in order to play the 'game'. At this point we are still processing how this will impact their interactions. That said, I do feel I handled it fairly, but I feel there is a difference between kissing on the lips, and on the nipples (and belly button which I left out earlier). The boy and our eldest (age 6, she was 5 he was 4 ay the time) informed us last year that they had kissed, we all laughed about and made a no kissing rule.

I do feel this scenario is different, the boy has played alone with our eldest DD and I am confident he has not done this type of thing to her (though we haven't discussed with her, still trying to figure out if we should because of our close relationship with the boy and his whole family). The age discrepancy and the fact that we are talking lip to nipple kissing and not lip to lip or touching which I think I may view differently cause me to think twice about this incident.

Hope I've cleared up any possible confusion.
post #11 of 20
Originally Posted by Shonahsmom View Post
I know someone will come along and write this much more eloquently than I will but, I think there was a strong and unnecessary overreaction that evoked a lot of shame and embarrasment for both kids, but especially the boy.
I agree with this. It sounds like age-appropriate explorative play, and it also sounds like they were playing nursing.
post #12 of 20
Sounds like normal play. My mom actually told me of when she caught me and my friend (who was a boy) .we were under the bed and she asked what we were doing, and I guess my friend told her we were "looking at pictures", obviously he couldn't pronouce very well lmao, we were both 3, because when mom looked we were looking at PECKERS..
post #13 of 20
I also think this sounds like normal play. I would see it as a good opportunity to talk to all kids involved about what you do when someone says no/and what you do if someone touches you and you don't want them to, but I personally would not worry on it.
post #14 of 20
I wonder if the boy had heard one of your kids talk about breastfeeding at some point and was curious about it? If he had never heard of that before, perhaps he was trying to test this surprising new theory that milk could come out of a nipple?

I would be cautious but I don't think that this incident, in and of it itself, is necessarily cause for alarm. The fact that the boy said he kissed your daughter 'on the bottom' is kind of weird, but if, as you say, the family doesn't talk about the names of 'private parts' very well, he may have only been taught that private parts are the parts under your bathing suit, and not really understand ??? Reaching a bit here, I know, but maybe? Also, maybe he said something like 'somewhere private' and the mom assumed 'on the bottom' ??

My first thought reading that they said they were playing "babies" was of a sexual nature. But on second thought I definitely think nursing. Funny how even on MDC our first idea of mouth on nipple is not of breastfeeding. (is there a smiley for shaking my head at myself?)
post #15 of 20
he may not have seen his mom nursing but perhaps he has sen puppies nursing.

what bothers me is he seeme to know it was not appropriate. I think you handled it fine. when stuff like this happens I just remind them that we don't play that way and clothes always stay on. For kids who know it is inappropriate but do it anyway we address that (knowing the rules and breaking them). But we don't realy make a big deal out of it. if however inappropriate behavior becomes a pattern we end playdates all together with that kids. also during playdates kids are kept close by so these sorts of things can be addressed quickly before they turn into something mome.
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
My first thought reading that they said they were playing "babies" was of a sexual nature. But on second thought I definitely think nursing. Funny how even on MDC our first idea of mouth on nipple is not of breastfeeding. (is there a smiley for shaking my head at myself?)[/QUOTE

I didn't think of a possible pretend nursing link either until reading it in the responses, and I nursed two kids for a total of over 6 consecutive years nursing. Like I said, the 5 year old was not nursed. It was both of the kids who on their own choose the word kiss, and our 2 year old (an early talker) is fully aware of the differences between nursing and kissing and the uses both words appropriatly. I hadn't considered this but it is a possibility, just not my first inclination.
post #17 of 20
Sounds like perfectly normal childhood play.
post #18 of 20
Normally I would say it was no big deal, just explain to them that it's not appropriate to play that way. But in this case the boy knew that what he was doing was wrong. That's kind of concerning.
post #19 of 20
I probably would have reacted the same way. Sorry I dont want a boy kissing my daughters nipples and especially after she says she doesnt want too. I would have spoken to the parents and explained that I was very concerned about what he did and tell them they need to talk to him. If he came over again, I wouldnt let them play anywhere that I couldnt see them. If it happened again, he wouldnt be allowed over anymore.
post #20 of 20
I agree, sounds like they were playing Mommy's and Daddy's. The main thing that needs to be enforced with the boy and girl is that if one person says they aren't comfortable or acts like they don't want to play a game, the game stops.

The girl needs to know that her friends won't be taken away just because she has denied them or said something. The boy needs to have re-inforced that games that involve other's privacy and particularly games that the other person does NOT want to do are not to be pushed.
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