Why are most doctors pro-vax? - Page 2

[mamakay]

I think they get traumatized when they're going through their residency and see people die from infectious diseases. They have to tell moms "Your baby died" and husbands "Your wife died". I think the thought of preventing deaths with something simple and easy like a vaccine makes them happy. I mean, if I were them, I'd probably feel that way. Who doesn't want to prevent deaths?

And there's so much pressure and reinforcement to just think "vaccines are good and save lives" in some vague, general kind of way. And to be honest, although I'm pretty moderate on the whole thing, I can see why they think that. "Vaccines" have saved lots of lives. But that doesn't mean everyone has to get every vaccine, or that there's some phenomenal risk in skipping some or all or delaying.

Asking why docs (especially peds) are provax is kinda like asking why priests are Catholic, though. It's just part of what they do. Everything in medicine is like that.
Why are people overwhelmingly the religion of their parents?
People believe what they're taught.

[kate3]

As a provider, I will try to shed some light. I'm an OB/GYN provider, so this post will probably mean nothing to the person who thinks all the "dregs" go into OB (and no, I was no where near last in my class).

The reason most providers are pro vaccines is simple: we have seen people die from preventable diseases. It really is that simple. We are not brainwashed or paid off by drug companies. Drug companies do not fund medical or nursing schools.

Once you have sat at the bedside of a child who is dying from a preventable disease your perspective changes completely. We are very fortunate to live at a time where diseases such as mumps, whooping cough, rubella, polio, and measles are very rare. These are not "minor" illnesses. We tend to forget that when we don't see them often.

This post is not intended to start a war or even change anyone's opinion. Just to show a different viewpoint.

[mamakay]

You've seen people die from mumps????

[mamakay]

Or rubella????

[momto l&a]

I really doubt Dr's in general have time to go into searching out vaccines and their safety or lack thereof.

[AlexisT]

The diseases that are vax'ed for are a mixed bag. Measles, yes, it can kill. Rubella is more of an issue for post-puberty girls, IIRC--you could certainly justify a campaign to vax girls at 14 if they have not had rubella. Similarly, chicken pox isn't a big deal in 7 year olds and I don't thnk we need to vax babies--but the UK's idea of giving it to kids at 14 isn't a bad one as adult chicken pox is not a joke. Polio, that's a tough one. No one sees it today and so we don't think of it as a threat--but ask your mothers and grandmothers about the polio scares of the '40s and '50s. Salk and Sabin were heroes in their day.

My father nearly died of meningitis 20 years ago. I don't know what strain it was, so I have no idea if vaxing would have helped, but I can say that when you have that kind of emotional view of a disease it does affect how you perceive the vax. I was 10 when he was sick and I remember him being in hospital for weeks and I wasn't allowed to see him--I was terrified.

I don't think we can go blaming Big Pharma--because UK GPs are just as pro-vax as US ones, and our medical schools and NHS are funded totally differently. Of course, for the NHS it's a cost-saving issue: it's cheaper to vax everyone than to deal with people getting ill. The NHS is also very public-health oriented.

I thnk that in some ways it's like doctors who are overly aggressive about C-sections--they're stuck in viewing worst-case scenarios and lose perspective on the issue.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by momto l&a

I really doubt Dr's in general have time to go into searching out vaccines and their safety or lack thereof.

I wouldn't expect my neurologist to know a lot, but pediatricians have no excuse, in my book. Vaccines are one of the, if not the, biggest things that they do. So kudos to our residents peds who are seizing the initiative to learn about this stuff. I think it should be taught as part of the curriculum, but that's not your fault, and good job to you guys for learning it on your own.

[kate3]

Yes, people do die from mumps and rubella. It is not common but it can and does happen. Not every case is mild and not everyone is able to recover.
I have seen people die from respiratory failure from chicken pox.

Again, this is not to change opinions. Just to increase awareness that there is not always a "happy ending". You are forever changed by holding a dying child. It is something you never really get over.

[Mirzam]

We are very fortunate to live at a time where diseases such as mumps, whooping cough, rubella, polio, and measles are very rare. These are not "minor" illnesses. We tend to forget that when we don't see them often.

Not in my experience. I have had them all, well not (AFAIK) polio and they were very "minor", self-limiting diseases. Oh, every child I grew up with too had measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox not one single child was in any way damaged from them, let alone died.

With respect, you are repeating what you have been led to believe. And big pharma by way of funding the research that you base *your* hypotheses on does control everything you learned and believe about the medicine you practice.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by kate3

Just to increase awareness that there is not always a "happy ending". You are forever changed by holding a dying child. It is something you never really get over.

Yes, same could be said for those that have experienced a child die from a vaccine reaction.

[momto l&a]

The reason most providers are pro vaccines is simple: we have seen people die from preventable diseases. It really is that simple.

What I want to know is what kind of health where those who died of vac preventable diseases?

IMO that very important info.

[kate3]

Again, the purpose of my posts was not to start a debate. Just to provide some insight into the original question.

I have patients who do not vaccinate for personal reasons and I respect that. Just as I would expect them to respect my personal reasons for seeing the benefit in vaccines.

I didn't post to agrue or convert anyone to thinking a different way. The point I was trying to make is that health care providers have different experiences than people in non health care professions and that shapes our thinking on certain issues.

[JesseMomme]

For my part, I do appreciate the insight, kate3, but this:

What I want to know is what kind of health where those who died of vac preventable diseases?

IMO that very important info.

is still pertinent information.

[giggleball]

Originally Posted by kate3

Again, the purpose of my posts was not to start a debate. Just to provide some insight into the original question.

I have patients who do not vaccinate for personal reasons and I respect that. Just as I would expect them to respect my personal reasons for seeing the benefit in vaccines.

I didn't post to agrue or convert anyone to thinking a different way. The point I was trying to make is that health care providers have different experiences than people in non health care professions and that shapes our thinking on certain issues.

Is your assertion that the vaccination would have prevented the disease? (seriously, just trying to clarify) Would the MMR have prevented the mumps you saw someone die from? I've been reading that most outbreaks are within vax'd populations.....

[LadyButler]

Originally Posted by JesseMomme

For my part, I do appreciate the insight, kate3, but this:
is still pertinent information.

I agree.

Also- a handful (or even more) of children suffering permanent damage- including death- from "VPDs" is not as bad as the thousands of vaccine injured children. Not to mention both the passive and active impacts vaccines have on the immune system.

It truly makes me sick to my stomach that people who are sworn to first do no harm don't even take a second look at the other side of things. Saving some by injuring thousands doesn't cut it for me.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by kate3

Yes, people do die from mumps and rubella. It is not common but it can and does happen. Not every case is mild and not everyone is able to recover.
I have seen people die from respiratory failure from chicken pox.

Again, this is not to change opinions. Just to increase awareness that there is not always a "happy ending". You are forever changed by holding a dying child. It is something you never really get over.

So I take it you haven't actually seen someone die from mumps or rubella? You've just seen the figures and know it can happen?

Right, but according to that logic, we really do need a vaccine for every little rhinovirus and enterovirus out there. Because every once in a while someone dies from the common cold.

It has to stop somewhere.

[mags]

Originally Posted by kate3

The point I was trying to make is that health care providers have different experiences than people in non health care professions and that shapes our thinking on certain issues.

So, what about healthcare professionals who are against vax? I am in healthcare and opposed to vax (from my own research, certainly not due to my formal education). Not all healthcare professionals share the same opinion on vax. Obviously the vast majority are pro-vax, b/c that is, "mainstream," but how about the ones who are against it? From your statement, you make it sound as if healthcare professionals are pro-vax, b/c of their experiences as healthcare providers vs. non-healthcare professionals. That doesn't explain why there are healthcare workers who are anti-vax.

[kate3]

Just to answer the questions:
I have personally seen a death from:
mumps
rubella
chicken pox

All were unvaccinated.
The chicken pox case was an adult. The other two were infants under one year of age. All during my residency.

[mamakay]

What country and year (roughly) were the deaths from mumps and rubella in?

[runes]

i'm a health care provider, too. i work with children with special needs, and from the things that i've witnessed and experienced from my own professional angle, i've seen the harm and long term effects of vaccines on our children.: i've heard the stories and cried with mothers who face the unknown for their children's futures.

if more doctors took the time/effort/energy to take a look at the other effects of vaccines, they might not be quick to tout their efficacy and safety.

while i acknowledge that there is lack of evidence of the role in vaccines in the rise of chronic illnesses and developmental issues, it doesn't take much to scratch beneath the surface to see the glaring flaws in many of these studies.

imo, until there is a long term study that looks at the rates of:
autism/autism spectrum disorders
speech/language delay
diabetes
autoimmune disease
cancer
morbidity/mortality of "vaccine preventable" diseases

in vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated children, including an analysis of formula fed vs. breastfed children in these populations, the jury is still out.

now, who is going to fund a study like THAT?: