article claims plastibell= no cutting or pain - Page 2

[Daisyuk]

I think, like the States, that it's partially money based. It costs a lot for 15 mins work, and Dr Russell keeps on opening clinics to do it. I have a feeling that he's been personally responsible for the rate rise in Queensland - I read somewhere that he'd got onto the local health board, and it took a year for the local intactivists to get him off of it - but in the meantime the rate rose to nearly 20%. Last time I looked, it was dropping back down again. No idea where I saw that though, and I didn't keep the link, which is a bit unfortunate.

I'm sure Prof. Short must have shares in Hollister or something, he pushes plastibells so much, he always seems to be advocating the plastibell in almost every article I've ever read, and he's been photographed with them too. He was even over here lecturing in Manchester about his work on HIV prevention - which also apparently included circumcision. Maybe he gets his funding from Hollister or a subsidiary or something, I don't know. (When I've got time, I'll try and find out - lots of weird things get explained if you follow the money trail).

They're also lying. Using the plastibell always involves pain and cutting. Why are they telling lies for something that is so obvious and and easy to prove?

[glongley]

Anybody here from Australia that would be willing to write a letter to the editor of The Age debunking this misinformation? These are outright lies, and deserved to be soundly discredited. I wouldn't think they'd print or take anything as seriously from people writing from outside of Australia, as from Australian residents.

http://www.theage.com.au/contacts/index.html

Gillian

[Dave2GA]

TigerTail is right on the money.

[serendipity22]

botch jobs

Oh, it's the Australian Schoen,

Yes, and not only that he keeps in contact with Schoen and quotes from him.

Short is another circumnutter who wants to get his hands on every penis he can and denude it.

Not quite right, Short like Morris is not a practicing medical doctor, he just pushes circ.

The latest inference about Russell he is doing at least one botched job a week, though I would have to get some more official information.

[joandsarah77]

I'm from Australia....I am no good at letters though. I will copy one if somebody can write it.

[Lula's Mom]

They need to be handed link to the Stanford Plastibell teaching video, which is fresh in my mind since I just re-watched it yesterday. There absolutely IS cutting. With sharp, shiny scissors.

In fact, the doctor cuts along the crush line, then tries to pop the glans out, but finds he hasn't cut far enough to do that. So he has to pick the scissors up and cut that baby some more.

The procedure is the same for every circumcision up to a point- the doctor has to insert a blunt instrument under the foreskin and sweep it around (in this video, it seems like an interminably long process). And then he has to cut into the foreskin in order to peel it back away from the glans. How else would he get it uncovered?

They need their little bubble of "no cutting!" happiness burst, in a big way. :

[SarahLi]

Questions...
1- I'm guessing this is not the plastibell method but some new fangled method. I've never seen a string used with the plastibell method. If he is claiming there is no cutting, it must be a different method.

2- If it was so PAINLESS, why would they need an anesthetic cream (which only numbs the surface by the way)?

3- How can she claim it was painless unless she had seen the procedure? Even then, I've helped Dr.s with circs in the past, and the Dr. will say the baby feels no pain after the anesthetic... But the baby will quiet down and then start screaming again as soon as they clamp or cut.

The article title is grossly biased. No pain but plenty to gain? HAH. Try lots of pain and lots to lose. That's what I think this article should be titled.

[Lula's Mom]

Sarah,
the Plastibell definitely uses a string. It's what cuts off the circulation and causes the skin to die and fall off. Here's a site with pictures of the device and procedure: http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/description.html I don't know why your doctor's method does not involve a string. :

You can also watch the video I linked to above- it shows the whole procedure, string and all. And it also shows the doctor cutting the foreskin away with his scissors after the ring and string are on. I had forgotten how he "trims it up".

So I wrote a letter to them. I figure they report on news from around the world, and on the 'net they know they've got readers from all over. My voice is just as important as the voice of an Australian reader!

I was horrified to read your recent article, "No pain, but plenty to gain". I know what is *lost* to circumcision (what amounts to 15 square inches of highly innervated, erogenous tissue in an adult man!) But I've never seen undisputed scientific proof of any benefit.

I'd advise your author to watch the teaching video from Stanford University to see how a Plastibell circumcision is performed, before claiming that there is "no cutting" involved. http://newborns.stanford.edu/Plastibell.html

There may not be a scalpel involved, but a blunt instrument is used to separate the foreskin from the head of the penis, and then the foreskin is cut through with scissors. This allows the doctor to peel back the foreskin and expose the red, bleeding glans, onto which he will place the Plastibell cap.

Visit this website to see pictures of the Plastibell and other instruments used in circumcision: http://noharmm.org/instruments.htm

It sounds so nice and benign to say that the Plastibell's plastic ring causes the foreskin to just "drop off". How does it sound if we describe it as cutting off the blood supply to the foreskin, so that the once-vital and functional tissue necrotizes? Over the course of a week, the skin of this perfect newborn baby dies, turns black, and falls off. It is worthy of mention that this method is associated with a higher incidence of complications than other methods. I do not believe for one minute that it's a painless procedure. It is only that its victims do not have the words to express their agony.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom

Sarah,
the Plastibell definitely uses a string. It's what cuts off the circulation and causes the skin to die and fall off. Here's a site with pictures of the device and procedure: http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/description.html I don't know why your doctor's method does not involve a string. :

You can also watch the video I linked to above- it shows the whole procedure, string and all. And it also shows the doctor cutting the foreskin away with his scissors after the ring and string are on. I had forgotten how he "trims it up".

So I wrote a letter to them. I figure they report on news from around the world, and on the 'net they know they've got readers from all over. My voice is just as important as the voice of an Australian reader!

Great job

I wish you have also included the Foreskins protect against HIV evidence/new study. BTW, this link of yours didn't work for me . If you could please give me the link with the info, I'd really appreciate that (I'm so sick an dtired of people claming circ prevents HIV, I would find this link very handy.
thanks,
yulia.

[Lula's Mom]

There were so many things I wanted to include, but I knew their eyes would start to glaze over if it got too long! Since they didn't say anything about HIV, I didn't specifically address it either.

Ohhh, I just realized you were talking about my sig link. Thank you for telling me!! I'll go check it out.

[Lula's Mom]

The site I had linked to in my signature is no longer there. Neither is another site with the same info that I had bookmarked. I am easily swayed by conspiracy theory, so I think They are going around shutting up the scientists who discovered this! But CIRP still has it up, and I've linked to their article. Does it work for you now?

[Daisyuk]

There's also this one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030500357.html


And the Journal of Cell Biology:
http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/full/177/1/5a

And I VERY much like this one:

The authors conclude that "Langerin is a natural barrier to HIV-1 infection, and strategies to combat infection must enhance, preserve or, at the very least, not interfere with Langerin expression and function."

Nat Med 2007.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553129
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=17334373

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

There's also this one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030500357.html

How interesting -- and scary -- that the entire article fails to mention ONCE where Langerhans cells are found. You'd never know that circumcision removes them from reading this article unless you knew (and I bet dollars to doughnuts that most Americans wouldn't) that the foreskin contains mucousal tissues.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Yeah, plastibell = licking off by kittens.

ROFLMAO....



Write me a PM. I want to quote you "for real".

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by Nathan1097

ROFLMAO....



Write me a PM. I want to quote you "for real".

Oh, I can't take credit for the "licking off by kittens" phrase! That was someone else's and I borrowed it shamelessly. :

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Oh, I can't take credit for the "licking off by kittens" phrase! That was someone else's and I borrowed it shamelessly. :

I knew I'd seen it around.... but who was its originator?!

[Quirky]

Hmmm, possibly Jen, or possibly Sarah (who's no longer with us on this forum)???

Whoever it is, I really don't think they'd mind being quoted without attribution.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Hmmm, possibly Jen, or possibly Sarah (who's no longer with us on this forum)???

Whoever it is, I really don't think they'd mind being quoted without attribution.

Ok. Well I'd love to stay and type about it but I'm SOOO tired. I've been working on circ stuff ALL day on the computer and such. Now its time to go snuggle with DBF.

[party_of_seven]

This is slightly OT from the article, but my MIL has sworn up and down that the plastibell didn't involve any cutting. Apparently dh was circed using the plastibell method, and she felt good about her choice because she thought it was more humane and therefore OK. She argued with me incessantly until I showed her a video of a plastibell circ.....I haven't heard a word out of her since.

Dh was born in the 70s, so I think the idea of plastibell=no cutting has been around for quite a while. :

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by party_of_six

This is slightly OT from the article, but my MIL has sworn up and down that the plastibell didn't involve any cutting. Apparently dh was circed using the plastibell method, and she felt good about her choice because she thought it was more humane and therefore OK. She argued with me incessantly until I showed her a video of a plastibell circ.....I haven't heard a word out of her since.

Dh was born in the 70s, so I think the idea of plastibell=no cutting has been around for quite a while. :

Likely so. I wonder why having any skin on your body ROT off is preferable (even in someone's mind) to just having a cut wound.