Living frugal when others around you are not..

[mykdsmomy]

This is sort of a two part question. First of all, most of my friends live on a budget but I wouldnt call it super frugal.
In order for dh and I to get out of our debt (which is all medical by the way ), we need to do some serious frugal living!

How do you manage to be frugal when others around you are living it up a bit? How do you explain to your children who are used to you buying them little things here and there, that we just cant do it?

We eat at In n Out about 1x a week (sometimes chick fil A).....DD12 seems to ask me for something nearly every day...."can we go to the bookstore", "can we go to Target?" "We never go anywhere".....and free places dont count for her.....plus the kids have gotten picky with food so dd12 will NOT eat PBandJ....the others dont like sandwiches.....so I feel like if we dont have food in our house that they like, they simply wont eat....then I feel bad that they dont have choices they like...

I also feel bad making them eat cheese sandwiches when their friends at the park are eating In n Out......yk?

(this is part of my problem as a parent.....I want the kids to be happy all the time and I know it's not possible but I feel bad and want to give them treats but we really cant afford it.....)

have any of you cut back and how do you explain it to your dc? Thanks mamas!!

[oneKnight]

Sonds like your 12 year old is guilt-tripping you into getting whatever she wants at the moment. I want it and I want it now!

Your long-term goal in life is raising a healthy, well-adjusted, capable adult. Getting unhappy over eating sandwiches really won't hurt in the long run. Food is food. Mom doesn't cook 3 different meals for lunch.

Does she get allowance? She eats PB&J or she buys what she wants out of her own allowance. When the allowance funds run out, she can mooch off her rich friends or eat PB&J like the rest of the family.

Thing is, you've got to put your foot down. We only eat out once a week, period. If you give in once, then she will just keep trying to guilt trip you until you give in again, and no peace till you give in again.

MUCH easier said than done.

[emilys_mom1]

The only things that I get from my friends are," How do you have time to make all that food (bread, crackers, granola bars, etc.) with 3 small kids."

I want our family to stay healthy and learn that it is fun to make things at home. My children are learning that it is a treat to be able to go out to dinner or lunch somewhere. It is something that they get to earn with good behavior or special occasions.

I like to keep up with the "Jone's" just as much as anyone else does, but we choose to do it differently. I have even started to rub off on some of my friends which is really nice.

[1growingsprout]

Well first off unless dd 12 has a job and is paying for groceries there is NOTHING wrong w. PB&J (unless there is a food allergy). point blank, dd, we are going to the park for a picnic, do you want grape, strawberry jelly or just PB and leave it at that. If they are hungry they will eat.

Just cut out the trips to target etc all together. Instead of getting a small something, why not rediscover they have already... im sure there are toys that have long been forgotten about, reintroduce them. Go to the library, books, movies, magazines are free. While there pick up a kids craft book or 2 and get some ideas of things to do at home with misc. 'junk' you already have. I cant tell you how many TP rolls have become binoculars, swords, spyglasses, etc. some glue, colored paper and string and you have hours of fun.

Dont feel bad they are eating cheese sandwiches when others have take out...thats the way life is....

Ive said many times 'i dont have the money for x' Its better to learn that lesson at 5 or 6 or 12 then 25 YKWIM? plus with summer being right around the corner, the kids should be outside more and less inclined to want junky toys...

[gargirl]

Hi,

First of all, let me just say that we are going through this too. My older kids are basically fine (ds 13 and ds 10) but my little one is an Imp! (ds4 almost 5) My 4 year old wants a toy every time we leave the house. He wants fast food like pizza and soda and he is a horribly picky eater. I have been struggling with him since he weaned.

He has a short list of foods he will eat:
Sesame tofu
veggie dogs w/ketchup
pizza
rice
dry cereal only certain kinds
peanut butter sandwiches
bagels...
and JUNK FOOD.

That is pretty much it... it is horrible. He even cries about me making regular popsicle because he saw some in the store with Dora on them. No WAY.

Anyway, we are just having to be firm and put our feet down about this whole thing. We explain to him that we cannot have everything we want all time or we will not be able to buy enough food or pay for our house. We also use a list with him. I keep "wishlists" for each member of our family and we update them all the time crossing off items we received or realize we don't really want and adding new things. Basically, the list is kept so that when it's Christmas or a birthday we know what each person really wants and we can tell grandparents and anyone else who calls to ask for ideas.

Just the fact that an item is on the list makes my kids happier. Food is a tougher prospect....

My big kids will eat practically anything I give them, though I know certain items are not their favorite and minimize how often they see those. My youngest... *huge sigh* I am struggling to get him to eat with us. He has to sit at the table with us for meals and we do all we can to get him to eat at least a little of what we are eating. Sometimes after he finally tries a food he finds that he likes it and will eat more, sometimes he is adamant that he "hates" it and that is that! Ugh. When I am making something I know he won't eat, I save a small portion of parts of it that he will eat. Like giving mashed potatoes from our Sheep's Pie or whatever. We will also put a tiny bit of the other stuff on his plate and encourage him to try it. It really is tough.

I don't think that having kids and ourselve learn to live within our means is abusive, just the opposite really. Sure my kid's friends may have the latest and the greatest but how many hours is their dad gone working? How stressed are their parents by their credit card debt? Living within our means is a great thing to teach our children, it is a GIFT. My parents taught this lesson to me through their example and that is something I thank them for. My husband's parents lived and still live way beyond their means and he suffers for it. He years after the latest electronic gadgets and wonders; "why can't we have that?" His dad, living on a smallish pension went out and bought all new furniture and a $2,000 TV, while here we sit on couches we were given with our older free TVs etc. My husband was very jealous of the TV and nice furniture... until yesterday... when his dad called and asked if he could borrow money. (!!!) I find it hilarious that he thinks we have any. That cracks me up. Between our mortgage, car payment, career training loan and all our insurance and stuff we are just glad there is enough left over for food, gas and something for birthdays/holidays. s

Hang in there with your kids. They need your teaching and example. You are doing a great job. I promise they will not actually suffer from having to be frugal.

[Amys1st]

I think 12 years old is old enough to explain what a budget is and how your family owes money. Introduce an allowance and teach your children that there are some dispointments in life no matter what, even if its happy meals over cheese sandwiches. Believe me- you will be doing your child a favor and also their future spouse and children. Giving your children what they want when they want it so not to upset them is no favor to them or you for that matter. You will also teach being resourceful.

sorry so blunt but it needed to be said. Well I am not really sorry but it sounds nice at the end of a blunt statement.


OTH, your statement about In & out burger makes me crave it sooooo bad!! We hit that place on the way from the airport when we come there.

[Thystle]

In the end YOU are the Parent. NOT them.


It's hard to change all of that around because unfortunately you let this situation develop for so long. Not trying to be mean, but it's the truth.




Kids NEED to learn that they can't have everything they want, that parents are not their servants and that the world is NOT full of roses all the time.

If they never learn all of that... what kind of adult do you think they will grow up to be? What kind of parent?




Work through and deal with the guilt. I bet you have past baggage from your childhood that is probably putting a spin on it. I think many of us have gone through that. Dig down to the root of why you feel the way you do.


Realize you are setting them up top repeat all of this with their kids if they don't learn to respect you and to understand the real world.




None of this is mean... it happens to alot of people. The guilty feeling is the hardest to deal with! {{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}






They will not die or burst into flame... they will learn to be better people in the end.



Good luck!

[Thystle]

One idea to amke it all "seem" cooler...


Start cutting your PB&J's with cookie cutters and making cool shaped "finger foods" for the kids.

Make it seem like a tea party.


Check out kids cookbooks for weird and fun recipes at the library. And involve the kids in finding a picky recipes.

Turn it into a homeschool lesson.


Let their food be soo cool that the other kids will be envious.

And then you can just feel all "mighty and proud" when the other moms just take the easy route and get the same old burger.

[Metta&Karuna]

Hi, just chiming in here, we had to go on a radical belt-tightening in the last few months. At homeschool co-op, the other kids have pizza, and they have pb & j, and it's across the board: I am buying a complete minimum, and it's been a big adjustment. I do not want them to experience as deprivation. I talk to them, saying that we do have money for what we need, but not all of what we want, and we have to be really clear about what we are spending our money on, so that we are getting what we want most, and not stuff that is a lower priority.

Also, I think it's a good lesson in anti-materialism. I talk to them a lot about my values, and how the best things in life really are free, and basically conveying the subversive point of view that businesses want to make you think that paid activities and food out is going to make you happy, but it's a trick. It's helpful that this has been a theme all along, so they really get that going into nature or the park or a friend's house is going to meet their real needs and bring real satisfaction.

I also think it helps that my kids don't watch TV. I think it would be much harder if they were being inundated with all that marketing that opposes the values I'm describing.

Still I do try to be careful how I talk about things. I try not to say, "We can't afford X," but rather, "I don't think that's the best use of our money today."

It's hard for them, I think, but my firmness does definitely help. Like with the pizza thing, they adjusted quite well, with some grumbling, but not a pitched battle, once they saw that I was entirely serious about the no-food-out plan. I think if I were inconsistent or guilty they would suffer more and bug me A LOT.

[Mallori]

Amy Dacycyn had an idea about this in her "Tightwad Gazette" book. I can't articulate this word for word, but basically, when kids are given a certain amount, it takes more and more to please them. So, when parents give in to the guilt trip, they are allowing the kids to take it up a notch, and so on and so forth. If her kids are dis-satisfied with the level that they receive, she gives them less. I've applied this with mine time to time, and it works!

I can also attest to the fact that when kids are hungry, they will eat. They might complain for a while, but they will eat what is there. Convenience foods are VERY hard on a budget. If they are old enough, teach them to cook/bake.

I guess I think the biggest thing that needs to change is your attitude, no offense, i've been there myself. Kids will adjust.

[mykdsmomy]

I really appreciate all your responses I have a confession to make though....I think I have set a bad example for them in my habits as well...

I have a Starbucks habit...I go every morning....it's my thing. My dh works 12 hour days....I'm home alone with 6 kids and I'm tired. The one thing that keeps me going is my Starbucks.

If dd12 asks if we can get a Jamba Juice and I say no, she will say "Well, why can you get a coffee?" I see her point but part of me also thinks....she's the child and doesnt have the same types of stress that I do....she's also not the one taking care of the family...in a way, it's my salary...

I guess I'm just sick of the guilt I feel whenever I get something and they dont I wind up buying them a doughnut or something from Starbucks because I feel bad....but then the bill is 3x's as much.

DD also has a problem with anyone being in the spotlight....yesterday she didnt wish me a happy mother's day....she was mad all day that I wouldnt take her to Barnes and Nobles....

Anyway....I guess this is my own guilt coming through.....I really need to think/pray about this.......

[fiesta'smom]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

I really appreciate all your responses I have a confession to make though....I think I have set a bad example for them in my habits as well...

I have a Starbucks habit...I go every morning....it's my thing. My dh works 12 hour days....I'm home alone with 6 kids and I'm tired. The one thing that keeps me going is my Starbucks.

If dd12 asks if we can get a Jamba Juice and I say no, she will say "Well, why can you get a coffee?" I see her point but part of me also thinks....she's the child and doesnt have the same types of stress that I do....she's also not the one taking care of the family...in a way, it's my salary...

I guess I'm just sick of the guilt I feel whenever I get something and they dont I wind up buying them a doughnut or something from Starbucks because I feel bad....but then the bill is 3x's as much.

DD also has a problem with anyone being in the spotlight....yesterday she didnt wish me a happy mother's day....she was mad all day that I wouldnt take her to Barnes and Nobles....

Anyway....I guess this is my own guilt coming through.....I really need to think/pray about this.......

Is there any way you could get your Starbuck's fix at home by buying their coffee and making it yourself? You might even choose to buy it AT Starbuck's once or twice a week as a real treat. That might free up enough cash to buy some alternative sandwich goodies a couple of days a week.

I was one of those kids who hated PB&J. It really grossed me out. I have no idea why! As an adult I didn't mind it, but now we don't eat it at all because our granddaughter is so allergic that we don't even keep it in the house.

Another idea would be to doctor up the peanut butter. Try mixing in yogurt, honey and raisins (if she likes those things) and see if she likes that. It makes a yummy sandwich...or maybe she'd prefer it on crackers?

Starbuck's goodies are so expensive! Would the kids enjoy an ice cream cone from McDonald's once a week instead? Some kids really enjoy going out. It's just important to them...kind of like you needing your Starbuck's. Chances are you and your daughter are actually very much alike. I know it probably makes you crazy to hear that, but I later figured that out about my son and I. We used to just really get on each other's nerves and it turns out that we were very similar in parts of our personality types. Who knew?

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

We eat at In n Out about 1x a week (sometimes chick fil A).....DD12 seems to ask me for something nearly every day...."can we go to the bookstore", "can we go to Target?" "We never go anywhere".....and free places dont count for her.....plus the kids have gotten picky with food so dd12 will NOT eat PBandJ....the others dont like sandwiches.....so I feel like if we dont have food in our house that they like, they simply wont eat....then I feel bad that they dont have choices they like...!

My dad was good about saying no to me . If I didn't like what they were serving then I just didn't eat; my parents didn't cater to "kiddie" tastes. They ate brussel sprouts and lima beans anyway .

I don't know how old your other kids are but would you consider discussing the family finances with the 12yo? Have her subtract the bills from your total income plus what you pay on your debt and show her how long it will take you to pay it off? And if she wants different food or cooler outings she has to take the initiative to find things withing your budget. I finally found a free Shakespeare in the park production this month!

Is the 12yo old enough to help with habitat or some other volunteer work that helps families or other children?

You can get starbucks at the market now, too

[Mallori]

Yeah, again, I think it's your attitude that needs to change. Without that, you cannot expect the kids to. They need boundaries, firm ones that they cannot manipulate around.

I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but you asked, and I want to be honest. About the starbucks, coffee is not stress relief, it is an addiction. I would suggest to cut the daily habit, and do it during your personal time, when you are alone and getting a break from it all. It also cannot be good on the pocketbook. Find an alternative. Stress makes justification a lot easier, I know all about that.

Frugality is a hardship that a lot of people fail at because they don't make the attitude adjustment that comes with it. I used to get a lot of flack for not buying when out with certain people. Now I just say, why in the world would I want to pay $X for that, when I don't need it, will get rid of it in ___ time, or I can get ___ for much less?, etc. It's easy to fall into the mindset of keeping up with the Joneses....but once you start to see the benefits of frugality on your happiness, your finances, it becomes easier to perpetuate frugality and apply it to more aspects of life.

As you can see, spoiling children has no benefits.

[kijip]

I highly recommend scraping together the funds for an at-home coffee maker or espresso machine and nixing the daily Starbucks if possible. I know it is said a lot but it always bears repeating $3 a day at Starbucks is over $1000 a year. I imagine you have many things you would love to have a $1000 for. It will be easier to impress the money limitations and situation on your kids if they see you making changes with them. Try doing your Starbucks out just once a week and see how much you can save. Take the money you are not spending there and put it in a jar- it will add up fast and give you a cushion of savings as well as maybe for money for the whole family have a treat together, like baseball tickets or a camping trip or whatever your family is into.

My husband has had to nix an expensive coffee habit and finds his thermos full of coffee from home works just fine when he wants a coffee.

Also, could you take your dd to the library instead when she wants to go to Barnes and Noble? That can be as fun and encouraging reading is never a bad thing.

[milosmomma]

Okay, I feel like I'm not 100% justified in giving advice because dd is only 2 and doesn't ask for anything. However, I want to throw a couple thoughts in....

My dh & I grew up in fairly similar financial circumstances, but they were presented in a completely different way and led to completely different attitudes toward money. Jason's parents always told their kids that they couldn't afford X, didn't have enough money for Y. Basically, every problem they ever had was blamed on the fact that they didn't have a lot of money. My parents were very crunchy, etc and never put a big importance of "stuff". When I asked for something, they didn't make a big thing of it, but they'd say things like "This shirt is made very cheaply" or "Food at McDonald's isn't healthy at all". They DID talk up home-made food, free things to do, etc. Honestly, it wasn't until years later that I realized that we were poor! Of course I went through my rebellion and bought crappy trendy clothes and fast food (still do at times), but at least I was using MY money on it!

I agree that 12 is a good age to learn about the family's budget, but I aslo agree with the pp that said they avoided saying that they couldn't afford X. Maybe just phrase it in a way that makes it sound "cool". (Don't all 12 year olds think that hippies are cool??? )

And yeah, definitely kick the Starbucks habit.

[SusannahM]

To answer one of your questions, I really don't worry about what my friends are or aren't doing. When I invite them over, I invite them over to my house, not out to dinner. Or, we invite them to BBQ with us at a park. Everyone always enjoys themselves, especially since the kids are much freer and more well-behaved in these settings than in a restaurant, anyway.

With your 12-year-old, could you maybe find some discount stores to at least start easing her into it? There's a store in Dallas (we used to live in that area) where no book was over $5, much better than B&N, and they were all new. When I was that age, too, I loved it when I discovered thrift stores! It was like a scavenging hunt to find good stuff. I also loved the library, mostly because I could bring home 12 books instead of 1, and I could bring home books about things I thought I *might* like instead of having to be so picky and choosing 1 book. Also, my mom introduced me to sewing, so I could go to the mall or clothing stores and just browse to get an idea of the styles, then try to come home and make something for myself (didn't actually sew much, but once I got the idea in my head that I could make something so much cooler than what I'd seen, at least it curbed my spending).

[KariM]

We had to tighten up the budget quite a bit after DD was born and I had fewer hours available to work my home-based business.

I explained our buget to DS and explained that some of our choices are strictly related to cash flow and others are values based (protecting our environment, feeding our bodies healthy food, etc).

When he asks to buy something that doesn't fit our values or that we can't afford I'll give him the option to use his own money (from his *small* allowance or gifts from family members). I'll explain why the family won't or can't purchase the item.

He still complains from time to time but at the age of 15 he is able to understand our rationale, even if he doesn't always agree.