Fake gunman attack on 6th graders

[4evermom]

by teachers!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05...rss_topstories

I wasn't sure if this should be in education or current events , but I hope those poor kids aren't traumatized for life .

[purplegirl]

Originally Posted by 4evermom

by teachers!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05...rss_topstories

I wasn't sure if this should be in education or current events , but I hope those poor kids aren't traumatized for life .

I just read about this. These children will be traumatized, if not for life, a very long time. I just can't imagine how a group of adults would ever think this was a good idea:

[mlec]

Unbelievable. What ignorant adults. Kinda scary they are educators.

Side note, this is prob. currrent events.

[girlsmamma2]

OMG!!!!!!!!! I would totally yank my kid out of that school. What were they thinking? My dd was in the hospital for 3 days when she was 3 yo, and to this day she is still traumatized by anyone in a white coat or that even has writing on their shirt. It has stuck with her for a long time. Why would they ever do this, especially on elementary kids who cannot proccess why adults they trust during the day would do this. My lord. I just can't believe it. I think I would be so outraged as a mother I would file some sort of suit against them and I am not like that at all. I hope they get their butts sued off. What a lack of judgement on their part. Why would not one of them at some point think this was wrong?

[CerridwenLorelei]

they have done this

at a school 45 mins from us too

( I saw the main thread title on main page and thought 'oh no they did it again??

[GuildJenn]

I read the press release from the school and although it acknowledged that the incident was "over the line" I was so unhappy to read phrases like "many students found it funny." Apparently the school has a tradition of the grade 6s going to a camp and then the teachers play a prank on them, and this was the prank.

However I went to look up the press release again (http://www.cityschools.net/schoolsites/se/index.html) and it had been taken down and the school announced disciplinary action:

"Director of Schools Marilyn Mathis has suspended lead teacher, Mr. Quentin Mastin, and assistant principal, Don Bartch, for unprofessional conduct and neglect of duty due to actions taken with Scales Elementary School students on May 10, 2007 at Fall Creek Falls State Park. The suspension is without pay and will commence on May 14, 2007 and continue through the end of this school year ending June 1, 2007."

I have to say if this were my son's school (he's too little though ) he definitely would not be in their care overnight; I might pull him right away. That was incredibly poor judgement on the part of the teacher and assistant principal.

[Hannah's Mom]

I saw the press release "apologizing" yesterday, as well. I'm glad they took it down; it showed the teachers and administration still failed to understand why people were so upset. I'm glad that disciplinary action was taken. Can you imagine the fallout if a group of students planned a "prank" like this? They'd all be expelled.

[Flor]

Hmm. Not sure what to think. We have a lock down drill every 1-2 months at my school. The kids do not know it is going to happen. Usually the staff is told that morning, but there are always people who do not know. We get the signal, turn off the lights and hide agaisnt the wall. The police and the prinicipal go around and bang on the windows and shake the doors. Not to scare the kids, but to show them 1. they are not supposed to laugh, or yell out, they must remain silent even if there is something happening outside and 2. the point is do not let anyone in, even a police officer or a principal. If they are supposed to enter, they have a key. So, the only difference is that the kids were told it was real. I wouldn't tell my students it was real if I knew it wasn't, but there have been times when I didn't know it was a drill.

[UUMom]

Proof that ignorance and insanity is alive and well in every facet of our society.

That said, my kids would be outta there. I would never trust the judgement of those adults on anything else ever again. Clearly, they slept through their tenrderness and compassion to small children classes in college.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by Flor

Hmm. Not sure what to think. We have a lock down drill every 1-2 months at my school. The kids do not know it is going to happen. Usually the staff is told that morning, but there are always people who do not know. We get the signal, turn off the lights and hide agaisnt the wall. The police and the prinicipal go around and bang on the windows and shake the doors. Not to scare the kids, but to show them 1. they are not supposed to laugh, or yell out, they must remain silent even if there is something happening outside and 2. the point is do not let anyone in, even a police officer or a principal. If they are supposed to enter, they have a key. So, the only difference is that the kids were told it was real. I wouldn't tell my students it was real if I knew it wasn't, but there have been times when I didn't know it was a drill.

Years in the future, when all those kids grow up traumatized and later write about the inasnity of their educations, this will show us all how ignorant we were. How little we respected childhood. These 'drills' will seem as ridiculous and worthless as the 1950's Duck and Cover fiasco.

I'm sorry, but that is just *wrong* on every level.

[ChristaN]

It's funny that you mention lock down drills as my 6 y/o and I were just discussing that this morning. Her school has held a few lock down drills, too. While I can appreciate having the kids know what to do in a terrible situation, I have mixed feelings about lock down drills.

I reminded my dd to go to the bathroom before school this morning and she responded by telling me, "don't worry, mom, I always go before school b/c I won't go to the bathroom at school anymore." When I asked her why, she told me about the "bad guys" that could be hiding in the bathroom or anywhere in the school and how she didn't want to be out in the halls or in the bathroom alone where these "bad guys" could get her.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Flor

Hmm. Not sure what to think. We have a lock down drill every 1-2 months at my school. The kids do not know it is going to happen. Usually the staff is told that morning, but there are always people who do not know. We get the signal, turn off the lights and hide agaisnt the wall. The police and the prinicipal go around and bang on the windows and shake the doors. Not to scare the kids, but to show them 1. they are not supposed to laugh, or yell out, they must remain silent even if there is something happening outside and 2. the point is do not let anyone in, even a police officer or a principal. If they are supposed to enter, they have a key. So, the only difference is that the kids were told it was real. I wouldn't tell my students it was real if I knew it wasn't, but there have been times when I didn't know it was a drill.

This is where living in Canada seems like an incredible cultural gulf. I have never even heard of a lock down drill before. So this is to practice what happens if a school is invaded, or something?

[Qestia]

Originally Posted by Flor

Hmm. Not sure what to think. We have a lock down drill every 1-2 months at my school. The kids do not know it is going to happen. Usually the staff is told that morning, but there are always people who do not know. We get the signal, turn off the lights and hide agaisnt the wall. The police and the prinicipal go around and bang on the windows and shake the doors. Not to scare the kids, but to show them 1. they are not supposed to laugh, or yell out, they must remain silent even if there is something happening outside and 2. the point is do not let anyone in, even a police officer or a principal. If they are supposed to enter, they have a key. So, the only difference is that the kids were told it was real. I wouldn't tell my students it was real if I knew it wasn't, but there have been times when I didn't know it was a drill.

I'm putting this on my list of reasons why I would consider homeschooling. This is absolutely insane on so many levels. I would not send my child to a school that did this.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by Qestia

I'm putting this on my list of reasons why I would consider homeschooling. This is absolutely insane on so many levels. I would not send my child to a school that did this.

I don't really have an opinion about it either way, but I don't think it is that unusual. I've worked for 3 different school districts in different parts of the states, and they all did the same thing. Actually, parents are always asking me about this: what is our safety plan? Do the kids know what to do? I attend PTA/Spanish PTA and the parents are always pushing the administration to do more drills and plans.

My district has had several real lockdowns this year, so I do appriciate the kids knowing what to do. The lockdowns were not from a gunman coming to get the school but in two cases, there was an armed suspect being chased by police on foot near the school and one where someone saw two men with rifles walking near a school. I don't want to scare them, either, but . . . .

more later.

[Qestia]

I guess there are a few reasons I have a problems with it, to clarify.

1. traumatizing children who have no reason to be -- either by making them think they're actually in danger at that moment or could be at any moment
2. I don't see the reason for them, I'm sure if a gunman were outside in the cases Flor mentioned the kids could follow directions right then and there without previous multiple drills.
3. I feel this is placing too much responsibility for safety on the kids, kind of like gavin debecker's arguments about not teaching your kids how to protect themselves--that's the adults job--and if the adults fail, I don't think elementary aged children are up to the task
4. if that is the reality of safety in our society in this day and age then yes, I would rather take full responsibility for my DC safety and not leave it in the hands of school adminstrators
5. more concern with efficacy, if someone actually wanted to endanger the children this would do nothing to help (remember that school in Chechnya, not to mention VA Tech). it's probably as nominally effective as hiding under your desk in the event of nuclear attack.

[Flor]

Ok, I couldn't write more earlier because I was at school. Today a student in my class was taken out of my class and searched and he had a knife and a ski mask in his bag. He was a 7th grader. That doesn't have anything to do with a lock down, but I do get nervous about safety as a teacher. I am also very worried about the possibilty of being the adult in charge of 30 middle school students in case of an emergency. When I see other situations on tv, I wonder how I would react. Of course, I want to take care of the kids in my class, but I'm a mother, too, and want to be safe in my job. At my school there are 1200 kids and maybe 70 adults? I think the kids need to know what to do in case of emergency. Especially if it is at lunch, or between classes when they aren't clearly assigned to a specific adult. I don't want to scare kids unnecessarily, but I do think it needs to be practiced just like we practice fire drills and earthquake drills. Actaully, we've had no earthquakes or fires in my district this year, but we've had at least three lock downs, so it doesn't seem that crazy to me. I wish it seemed crazy.

[cottonwood]

Practicing drills is one thing, staging it so the kids think it's real is entirely another. I can appreciate the need to know what to do in case of an emergency. There are ways to accomplish that without subjecting the kids to the psychological equivalent of a real situation. I can't believe these teachers haven't been fired. Idiots.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

Practicing drills is one thing, staging it so the kids think it's real is entirely another. I can appreciate the need to know what to do in case of an emergency. There are ways to accomplish that without subjecting the kids to the psychological equivalent of a real situation. I can't believe these teachers haven't been fired. Idiots.

Yeah, I agree. It is just when I read the report, I was struck by how closely it could resemble a drill we'd have. We don't intentionally tell the kids it is real, but often there are teachers who haven't gotten the message about the drill, so they assume it is real. Our principal and police officers don't cover their faces, but they do shake all the door handles and try to enter rooms and we can't see who is doing it. I think we could practice this all less often.

[trini]

What an awful situation. (Referring to the link provided by the OP.) They should definitely be fired. Poor judgment, indeed.

I am a teacher, too, and I HATE lockdown drills. I even hate fire drills. And tornado drills. And reverse evacuation drills. I hate them all. But I hate the lockdown drills the most. And yes, we have had real lockdowns several times. One lasted more than an hour and I had no idea what was going on but I knew it was real. I was really scared, but kept the kids calm. I quietly read a story to them in the dim coatroom that we were hiding in. I had them visualize in their minds. It happened to be the perfect story!

As a kindergarten teacher, I've had kids cry during fire drills but not lockdown drills, though. The fire alarm scares them. Every time we have a drill, I TELL THEM it is a drill. And we don't have anyone coming around banging and shaking doors. That is horrible. When it's not a drill, I honestly say I'm not sure what's going on, but this is what we are going to do.

We are required to practice drills once a month (and tornado drills monthly during "tornado season"). I think that is way too much.