why do you not homeschool? - Page 7

[shanghaiteacher]

Hi I would like to give you some information about how to apply Montessori methods in a home learning environment. Check out www.montessoriboard.com

[Sasha_girl]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

When I was invesitgating homeschooling, I had a lot of really important and really critical questions, many of which were about education and socialization and I found conversations that were critical to homeschooling, especially those where people who had not-so-good experiences with homeschooling were sharing their thoughts, shut down in exactly this way. I think it's a huge liability for homeschooling and definately put me as a concerned parent off the issue.

If it doesn't apply to your situation and you have no outside experience then why should it be addressed? If you live in a very rural community with a low crime rate in the heart of the Midwest and someone says, "I can't believe you send your child to school! Aren't you worried about gang activity?" your answer would likely be, "There isn't a gang problem in this community."

Some situations just don't apply. I don't have to worry about my (homeschooled) kids being indoctrinated with religion as fact, or kept at home around the kitchen table, or being isolated from those of a different color or religion--all criticisms *I* have seen about homeschooling. Why should I spend a lot of time defending myself--even in my mind--against arguments that have no bearing on my individual circumstance?

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by Karenwith4

I don't think it is her perspective people are taking issues with. I think it is more with the fact that she attempted to position herself as an expert both in homeschooling (when in fact her child went to school at age 6), and on Sociology and Cultural Anthropology. Using her expertise as her premise she then makes sweeping statements about how socializing in small groups will cause problems later on, or that all homeschool groups are homogeneous, or how school is the only place for children to acquire cultural literacy.

Thanks, but you know what? I can work out how much weight to give to different perspectives without needing to have others point that out for me. But now we have a whole bunch of other people trying to position themselves as better and more complete experts than others rather than sharing their perspectives, without answering or respecting the original question and the conversation that grew up around it. And I can decide how much -or really, how little- weight to give to those perspectives as well.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

Thanks, but you know what? I can work out how much weight to give to different perspectives without needing to have others point that out for me. But now we have a whole bunch of other people trying to position themselves as better and more complete experts than others rather than sharing their perspectives, without answering or respecting the original question and the conversation that grew up around it. And I can decide how much -or really, how little- weight to give to those perspectives as well.

I don't doubt your ability to make your own assessments and weigh which perspectives and opinions you agree with. But I also don't think that those who have different and perhaps broader experiences than Aura Kitten should be discouraged from speaking up when they see stereotypes and generalizations being stated as fact. All experiences are valid are they not? And wrt to critical thinking, part of the process is to weigh the source and their biases against their opinions. As Aura Kitten positioned herself as an expert, it makes perfect sense that someone with similar background and an opposing views outlines what their background is does it not? No one is telling you what to believe - they are simply (and respectfully) adding more information to the discussion so that those who are open to the topic can explore more. I don't see any harm in that.

[Aura_Kitten]

Wow I didn't realize so many people were hatin' on my contributions to this thread.


You all would have been horrified the last few class sessions of my sociology class ~ the professor has made it abundantly clear why Homeschooling is detrimental to children in society.


But it seems like the hs'ers responding to this thread don't want facts, they want to preserve their ideology with whatever supports their beliefs.



Do you think it was easy for me to accept the notion that homeschooling was detrimental, when I myself had been an avid home-schooler for a number of years?



Geesh.
This thread is just ridiculous.

ETA ~ I am not just here to "spout off stereotypes as facts," but to share what I have come to learn over the years. You can agree or not agree.
I also did NOT "attempt to position myself as an expert" ~ what a stupid ASSumption.

This is a thread about WHY we made the personal decision to NOT homeschool, the last time I checked. It was not "let's tear down the decisions and evidence driving those decisions of people who have chosen not to homeschool their children."

*Unsubcribing*
I have more important things to do with my time then try to educate narrow minded people who only want to argue.

[UUMom]

[QUOTE=Aura_Kitten;8194033

You all would have been horrified the last few class sessions of my sociology class ~ t
. [/QUOTE]

Omgosh, and here I was thinking you might be a disgruntled community college teacher or something. You're an undergrad.

[ecoteat]

It looks like the last few posts are part of an interesting discussion/debate, but no time to read that now...

My daughter is only 1, but she will probably go to public school. She can go to the school for the town we live in (bleh) or the town I teach in (). I got lucky and got a job in an excellent school that I would love to have her go to. We could homeschool with dh being a WAHD, but I see no reason to with our school options. Also, eventually she'll be in my class for 2 years, so I would be teaching her anyway!

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten

You all would have been horrified the last few class sessions of my sociology class ~ the professor has made it abundantly clear why Homeschooling is detrimental to children in society.

What college are you attending? I strongly suggest you transfer.

[momtokea]

You all would have been horrified the last few class sessions of my sociology class ~ the professor has made it abundantly clear why Homeschooling is detrimental to children in society.

Aura Kitten,
Is this just the opinion of your professor, or is it based on research? If it is based on research, I am sincerely interested in reading this research for myself. Please let me know how and where I can get a hold of this research. Thanks!

[Tiffany_PartyOf5]

My son wants to play with kids daily.. and not just his siblings... we dont have ANY kids his age in the neighborhood and playdates just dont do him justice.. he wants an all day playdate LOL.. so we are going to try preschool this next year.. we may homeschool him in the future or we may do his siblings or whatever.. we are just going to play it by ear for each child and do what is best for each individual

[laralou]

We've done both. Ds prefers school. He is really smart and sees the pros and cons in both, but for him school wins out. So I let him go. Do I hate it a lot? Yes. Do I appreciate the friendships he has made and the learning he has done (in particular, how to cope with suddenly having 8 different teachers with 8 different sets of expectations and assignments)? Yes

I haven't decided what to do with the girls yet. I think I will homeschool them, but at some point they will decide to go to school like big brother.

[onlyboys]

We have a great Montessori program that my boys are enrolled in. So, homeschooling isn't necessary for us. Montessori provides a much richer, more constructed atmosphere for my boys that I could never give them. I'm really happy with where they are right now. When they get to high school, then they can choose what they want, and if they want to be homeschooled, I will. It would be easier for me then anyway, just based on preference and education.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by velochic

Originally Posted by velochic View Post
One of our main reasons is because we want dd to have a truly multi-cultural, multi-lingual education.

Originally Posted by eloquence

And that is precisely why WE homeschool.

: How many cultures can you represent homeschooling? To me that is the exact reason to NOT homeschool... people really thinking they can expose their kids daily to the cultures of the world by keeping them at home. How many languages (spoken by a native speaker) are your kids exposed to on a daily basis? How many different ethnic foods do they get to sample? How many different ethnic holidays do they celebrate every year?

Over 70 countries and languages are represented in my dd's international school. She'll also get a degree recognized by the ministries of education in France, Canada, all of Latin America, Spain, and some African countries. Somehow I doubt that your homeschooling curriculum is approved at that level.

[townmouse]

Originally Posted by velochic

: How many cultures can you represent homeschooling? To me that is the exact reason to NOT homeschool... people really thinking they can expose their kids daily to the cultures of the world by keeping them at home. How many languages (spoken by a native speaker) are your kids exposed to on a daily basis? How many different ethnic foods do they get to sample? How many different ethnic holidays do they celebrate every year?

Over 70 countries and languages are represented in my dd's international school. She'll also get a degree recognized by the ministries of education in France, Canada, all of Latin America, Spain, and some African countries. Somehow I doubt that your homeschooling curriculum is approved at that level.

: The ignorance and classism. Where to begin.

If "my" child went to school, he would not be going to a la-di-dah international school with 70 countries represented. He'd be going to a low-income, failing, 98% white school on the edge of a not-quite-major city. He'd be exposed daily to racism and narrowmindedness.

With homeschooling, ds doesn't get "daily" interaction with people from 70 different countries, but he does get a much more integrated experience. He goes to homeschool gym class, where his friends are "from" all over the world. He meets Darfur refugees at our little branch library, muslim kids at his music class, children from China and Ethiopia at church, hispanic kids on our street....and in all this he has zero exposure to racist attitudes that I know are rife among the low-income white people of this community.
Also, we use a homeschool curriculum that has a focus on making sure the children don't have a white european male worldview. In his daily studies, the children in his school books are very diverse in regards to gender, race, country, income level, and religion.

I am doing the absolute most that I can to raise a white child in a mostly-white, low income part of town to see himself as part of the big, wide world where people come in a rainbow of colors. So far, so good! I can take him anywhere and see the same result: he easily makes friends wherever he goes. He doesn't "see" barriers that our society often encourages. My chosen task would be impossible if I took him down to the local school and signed him up.

Now, if I were rich or happened to live next to a school like your child's, I wouldn't have to arrange playdates and drive my son all over town to find friends. Aren't you priviledged that your child can go to such a fine school? If your lot in life ever lessens, you should consider homeschooling.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by townmouse

: The ignorance and classism. Where to begin.

If "my" child went to school, he would not be going to a la-d-dah international school with 70 countries represented. He'd be going to a low-income, failing, 98% white school on the edge of a not-quite-major city. He'd be exposed daily to racism and narrowmindedness.

70% of the kids that go to this school, do so on some sort of scholarship. Every single "class" is represented in this school. It truly is the picture of diversity. It's not "la-d-dah", it's quite the opposite. Some people always have to find a way to try to shoot down something that's a good thing.

I'm damn glad that my dd gets to go to a school like this. If you don't have one, or your kids don't attend one, there's no need to have an attitude about it. My point is that the reason we don't homeschool is because dd has a chance to go to a school like this. We've not always lived in the US and we probably won't during dd's entire education. Go back and read my first post. Perhaps then you'll understand why having 4 or more languages and multiple cultures are in important to us.

It has nothing to do with our lot in life. We sacrifice every single day to pay our portion of her tuition. Why don't you keep your stereotyping to yourself because you haven't even the slightest clue what we have to do to have her in this school. The sacrifice is WORTH it to me because dd spends every school day with kids and teachers from all over the world... both the poor ones and the rich ones, AIDS orphans, and rich doctor's kids, black, white, and every other color of the rainbow. I'm sorry but I don't see how homeschooling can offer anything close to that.

As for playdates... we don't have playdates - we live 45 minutes from the school!! Dd has plenty of friends right here in town to play with. What does that have to do with homeschooling or not, anyway? Like homeschoolers don't set playdates with kids? Geesh!! Take the chip off of your shoulder.

ETA: Oh, and before we knew dd could go to this school, I looked into homeschooling. Every, single homeschool group I contacted and met with were 100% white, middle-class, protestant. Imagine how many sideways looks I got when I said that my husband is Middle Eastern, non-christian, and we are bilingual at home. If I HOMESCHOOLED, there would be 0 diversity. And diversity for us, in this white-bread town, is more important than anything concerning education. School is the ONLY place dd is exposed to diversity.

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by velochic

: How many cultures can you represent homeschooling? To me that is the exact reason to NOT homeschool... people really thinking they can expose their kids daily to the cultures of the world by keeping them at home. How many languages (spoken by a native speaker) are your kids exposed to on a daily basis? How many different ethnic foods do they get to sample? How many different ethnic holidays do they celebrate every year?

Over 70 countries and languages are represented in my dd's international school. She'll also get a degree recognized by the ministries of education in France, Canada, all of Latin America, Spain, and some African countries. Somehow I doubt that your homeschooling curriculum is approved at that level.

Sounds like you've found a wonderful school that fits the needs of you and your family. Hats off to ya.

I still wouldn't send my kids, though. Bad kids-to-teacher ratio, lack of freedom to make individual curriculum, lack of family freedom to vacation whenever, kids still have to get up too early (IMO), peer-orientation issues would still occur, peer-pressure issues, classroom pressure to make everyone conform to the mean, teaching to tests, etc. etc. etc. etc.

I live in a culturally rich area. So in anwer to some of your questions above...my kids are exposed to about 8 foreign languages on a daily basis. She plays with friends from Serbia, Brazil, Ecuador, China, Italy, Germany, Canada (Frnech speakers), and India on an almost-daily basis. As far as foods, we eat out at different types of restaurants here and in nearby NYC on a semi-regular basis. Also, we try out recipies at home. My kids are too little to care about any holidays except for Christmas, but next year I plan on explaining/celebrating holidays from around the world.

Really, it's easy to incorporate this stuff into your everyday lives if you live close enough to a city. Homeschoolers aren't exactly home staring at their four walls all day long.

[velochic]

Well RedWine, cultural diversity is more important than any of those things you listed. IMHO, at some point in her life, she's going to have peer pressure. I'd rather her experience it, and learn to deal with it when the stakes aren't as high as they will be once she leaves home. I'd rather her deal with peer pressure first when she is being challenged about her shoes, or her homework, or teasing another classmate, and not when she is being challenged to try street drugs or random sex. As for vacation, we are restricted not by dd's classes, but by the fact that my dh is a professor and we can go only when HIS schedule permits (which is almost identical to dd's). You are in the same situation, no? Getting up early... she gets up early anyway. At least when she goes to school, *I* get to go back to sleep. Oh, and the school does have tests, but I'm one of those rare people that believe that homework (and lots of it) and tests are good. Even if I homeschooled, we'd be having tests. Thankfully, dd's school doesn't do any standardized testing until the kids are about to enter the International Baccalaureate program in high school.

As far as language goes... being exposed to a language does nothing toward fluency. A kid might pick up "yes", "no" and count to 10, but any passive exposure to language is useless. I studied language acquisition as an undergrad, and really the only thing that is useful at this age (5) is immersion. I've posted over on the gifted forum about my dd's language abilities, and it really has come only from immersion. Her first 3 anyway. Her 4th language is only passive fluency now, but it was acquired through immersion. By the time she is able to acquire language through rote teaching, she'll have grown beyond the "Critical Period" and will not be able to acquire it like a native speaker. This is EXTREMELY important to us that she be multilingual, not just to be able to ask where the bathroom is, but to converse on all levels that a native speaker does. You just can't provide that through homeschooling unless there is a secondary (or tertiary) language spoken in the home using a proven method such as OPAL (one parent, one language).

And as for NYC being nearby (as I recall, you said you're in Cambridge... my dh is an MIT grad, so we know the area), I wouldn't call that very nearby, but if you have ready access to it (via train, I assume), then that's great! We have Chicago that nearby, but we don't go there often enough to really have much exposure to the cultural diversity there.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by velochic

Well RedWine, cultural diversity is more important .

While I think your experience is nice, (and better most) you do not seem to want to understand what homeschoolers get to experience outside the confines of one classroom.

I am glad your school is working for you. Your way is not wrong, and our way is right for us, which doesn't stop at academics, or the learning of another language or two.

The fact is, what we get in our daily lives, in a natural way, is rocking. I know you don't see that.

We are very blessed to have an awesome opportunity to be free *and* learn.

[jkpmomtoboys]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how this turned into a homeschooling debate.

Don't the homeschoolers have their own forum where they can spout ps'ing stereotypes like this:

Originally Posted by RedWine

Bad kids-to-teacher ratio, lack of freedom to make individual curriculum, lack of family freedom to vacation whenever, kids still have to get up too early (IMO), peer-orientation issues would still occur, peer-pressure issues, classroom pressure to make everyone conform to the mean, teaching to tests, etc. etc. etc. etc.

I mean, honestly, none of this happens at our little, alternative, public school. So implying it happens everywhere is therefore a stereotype....I thought we were all working on avoiding that.

[heket]

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(Sensing possible thread lockdown...)