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why do you not homeschool? - Page 5

Poll Results: why do you not homeschool?

 
  • 8% (17)
    I never even considered homeschooling.
  • 12% (26)
    I don't think homeschool provides adequate socialization.
  • 5% (12)
    I don't think homeschool provides adequate academics.
  • 38% (79)
    It's just not practical for our family.
  • 33% (69)
    Other (please explain).
203 Total Votes  
post #81 of 174
Other

We would consider it if we didnt live in the best school district in the county that is building a brand new school in 2008. We are also connected to the highest scoring middle and high schools. There is so many things I could not provide.
post #82 of 174
I voted "other". We homeschooled my older son. He then went into a Sudbury-modeled independant school for a few years and this upcoming year we will try out our local public school for 4th grade. He didn't enjoy homeschooling so much. It was a struggle. I think some of that was because I needed to work part-time at that point, and I was in school finishing my degree, as well. It was actually really hard.

That being said, I feel that homeschooling is the most natural and intuitive situation for *my* family. It has been hard sending him off each day, even though I have had much faith in the schooling sytem he's been exposed to/immersed in.

Luckily, the public school he's going into is pretty good - even from the viewpoint of someone who's homeschooled, and experienced a wonderful private program. So we'll see. I am prepared, however, to pull him out if things come up that we're uncomfortable with that we can't seem to "fix" and we'll go from there.
post #83 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
My son was 6 when he went back to school.


With all I've learned in Sociology and Cultural Anthropology I really don't think homeschooling provides enough socialization for kids in general ~ that is, socialization within their peer group. They don't learn how to interact appropriately with kids their own age.

Knowing the social, unwritten / unspoken "rules" that our society operates with is called "cultural capital" ~ when people lack that cultural capital it makes their interactions extremely difficult.

Example: when I would take my son to the park and he'd play with the kids who had been in public school, they would all line up to get a drink, single file, take a short drink and move on... whereas he had no concept of the pattern, and despite being introduced to that in the park environment (where homeschool advocates would say he'd have the opportunity to socialize to their norms as well) he had no idea what was going on. He wanted to just ask them for a turn and drink his fill instead of waiting in line and then taking a short turn... I mean, this is a dumb example but, it's this kind of cultural capital that makes our society work.

In a homeschool environment, generally kids seem to learn that they can always stop, take breaks whenever, get snacks whenever, and stop and return to lessons they missed... and then later on in life, having to develop the understanding that the classroom structure can't be bent around people's needs is a difficult process. In college, I've befriended several kids who came to college direct from being home-schooled pretty much their whole lives, and they lacked so much cultural capital it was almost painful to watch. They had no idea how to actually interact with their peers, how to "shoot the breeze" with non-hs'ed students, or that their justifications for personal ethics didn't matter one bit to their professors (as in the case of one girl who wanted an exemption from dissections or collecting bugs for our Zoology course because she thought it was "mean").

Furthermore, most of them have had their media intake severely limited, which meant that when people around them made jokes about various pop culture elements (which come up far more frequently than I had ever realized, having never *had* to consciously think about it myself) they were completely clueless. One of them had to consistently stop the professor during the lectures and ask for definitions of just common stuff, things that everyone that goes to public school generally knows, like about malls and stuff ~ that we're exposed to if not personally at least vicariously.

And one hs'ed girl ~ she had experience babysitting and I had called about hiring her as our sitter... and while she may have had experience watching children is was completely obvious she had no clue about how to interact with an "authority" figure (an employer). She completely brushed off the entire job, never returned calls, was catty and flippant...

I'm sure that not all home-schooled kids are like this, but it seems like every one I've met around here come out extremely socially inept ~ including the ones whose groups make it a point to go to museums, go travelling, etc... and in a way it makes a lot of sense. They are isolated from the social norms of the broader society, and socialized instead with their small, intimate (usually religious-based) groups. And this all hasn't even taken into consideration the general lack of diversity that you can *only* find in larger-scale settings.

There's nothing *wrong* with socializing within a small group ~ but I think people need to know that it will probably cause problems later on.



WITH THAT SAID: I am NOT saying that the American public school system is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Education in the U.S. has a LOT of problems. But I don't think homeschooling is the best answer for kids.

This is funny -- I have an MA in Biological Anthropology, and I lived with a hunter-gatherer tribe for a while while in grad school.

And I don't agree with a single thing you've written.

First of all -- kids don't need to know "how to interact with kids their own age." They need to know how to interact with other kids, regardless of age. So if my 4 year old wants to hang out with 7 year olds, and vice-versa, that's just fine. It's artificial to group kids strictly by age.

Regarding taking turns, etc. -- both my 4 year old and my 2 year old know how to do this because they have to wait for each other (and me!) when we all want the same thing (for example, a drink from the water fountain).

I met quite a few homeschooled-to-college students at Harvard (where I went to grad school), and my husband has had a few in his classes at MIT (he's a Professor). Both of us have been impressed with the maturity level and inner drive of the previously homeschooled students. They all understood that the classes were for everyone and had no problem following the rules, etc.

As for the Zoology class example -- good for her! Why should a student compromise her values for the sake of conforming to the mean?


As for being isolated from broader society -- isn't that what happens to school-kids? They are stuck inside a building all day while the homeschoolers are out living life. My kids play with kids from a variety of cultures, we visit museums, hang out in Chinatown, travel the US and go overseas at least once a year, etc. etc.

Sorry, your post addresses so many myths that I couldn't help but respond.
post #84 of 174
I think kids need to learn to interact with people of all ages, not just kids their own age.

The social unwritten and unspoken rules of society are best handed down from the older generation to the younger generation IMO. Relying on other children to do this job to our child amounts to them creating a separate youth culture into which, we all know, adults are not invited.


My .02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post

With all I've learned in Sociology and Cultural Anthropology I really don't think homeschooling provides enough socialization for kids in general ~ that is, socialization within their peer group. They don't learn how to interact appropriately with kids their own age.

Knowing the social, unwritten / unspoken "rules" that our society operates with is called "cultural capital" ~ when people lack that cultural capital it makes their interactions extremely difficult.
post #85 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds View Post
The social unwritten and unspoken rules of society are best handed down from the older generation to the younger generation IMO. Relying on other children to do this job to our child amounts to them creating a separate youth culture into which, we all know, adults are not invited.
Thanks -- well said.
post #86 of 174
Thanks Redwine and Pumpkinseeds.
post #87 of 174

I have seriously considered it

but it's not the best solution for us.

Most homeschooler's in the area we live are religious. I don't mind but many don't participate in homeschool groups etc.

We found it really hard to find activities and social opportunities for our family and that schooling worked better for us.
post #88 of 174
I chose "other".

When DD was set to start school, we were considering homeschooling. But Dh was very apprehensive so we agreed to put her in French Immersion and if it didn't go well, we'd pull her out and homeschool her. If she didn't start French Immersion in kdg or gr 1, she'd be unable to do it ever, so we felt that the chance to learn another language was worth it.

The same goes for all our kids - French Immersion, then homeschool if a change is needed. Two reasons we chose FI is because the school is awesome and all our kids are ahead come kdg, so this keeps them challenged. The English school in our area is not that great, hence homeschooling if FI doesn't work out.
post #89 of 174
First, I wouldn't call them Myths since I've experienced them personally.


And second, of course kids don't JUST need to interact with kids their own age. What I'm saying is ~ look, in a culture where like 90+ % of the kids in the country attend public school and are socialized to those norms, those kids who aren't socialized are, in a way, socially handicapped.

As I said, the American system of education isn't the best ~ but it beats confinement to small homogeneous groups, which is what most homeschooling groups are.
post #90 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
And second, of course kids don't JUST need to interact with kids their own age. What I'm saying is ~ look, in a culture where like 90+ % of the kids in the country attend public school and are socialized to those norms, those kids who aren't socialized are, in a way, socially handicapped.

As I said, the American system of education isn't the best ~ but it beats confinement to small homogeneous groups, which is what most homeschooling groups are.
But I see schools doing exactly what you say HS does -- small homogenous groups -- aka, classrooms assigned by grade level...
post #91 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by heket View Post
But I see schools doing exactly what you say HS does -- small homogenous groups -- aka, classrooms assigned by grade level...
Even the smallest age-grouped classroom tends to be larger and more diverse than the average homeschool group.

But then, I'm generalizing based on experiences here in severely rural Middle Of Nowhere, where hs groups tend to be 5 to 10 people max, and religion-based.

I'm sure if you compare say... a rural classroom in southern Wisconsin (v) a 30-member homeschool group in New York City... this generalization wouldn't hold true.



Furthermore, I'm still not saying that ps classrooms in America are ideal. They're far from ideal. If we're going to hold up a standard of education, let it be... Japan, say. I'd call their system darn near perfect.
post #92 of 174
I'm sorry - I guess I don't understand why so many hsers are responding to this thread. Certainly you are entitled to post anywhere you want, but in a thread entitled "why do you not homeschool?" it seems to me that attempting to refute people's clearly-labeled _opinions_ takes this thread a bit OT and makes it more of a debate than anything else.

Surely not what was intended by the OP...
post #93 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
Even the smallest age-grouped classroom tends to be larger and more diverse than the average homeschool group.

But then, I'm generalizing based on experiences here in severely rural Middle Of Nowhere, where hs groups tend to be 5 to 10 people max, and religion-based.

I'm sure if you compare say... a rural classroom in southern Wisconsin (v) a 30-member homeschool group in New York City... this generalization wouldn't hold true.
So you cannot say most homeschool groups then, only most of the homeschool groups that you know of, right? The homeschool group we belonged to for 4 years had well over 100 families, secular inclusive, extremely active. And we had the choice of several more groups of similar orientation, some with even larger memberships, within a short driving time. And it wasn't New York City!
However, the group we currently belong to in a smaller town has about 14 families, 35 children attending every single week. Ranging in age from age 3 to age 15.

However, the homeschool group, unlike the public school classroom in lots of cases, is rarely the only socialization opportunity for homeschoolers. Unfortunately, you are still spouting stereotypes.

Okay, I'm dipping into the learning at school forum, so I will bow out. However, I invite you to spend some time in Learning at Home and Beyond. I hope you will observe, read, and learn with an open mind. Today's homeschooling is not what you claim to have experienced. Not at all!

Thanks!
post #94 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkpmomtoboys View Post
I'm sorry - I guess I don't understand why so many hsers are responding to this thread. Certainly you are entitled to post anywhere you want, but in a thread entitled "why do you not homeschool?" it seems to me that attempting to refute people's clearly-labeled _opinions_ takes this thread a bit OT and makes it more of a debate than anything else.

Surely not what was intended by the OP...

We're allowed, as long as we play nice! And are making efforts to dispel "clearly labeled opinions" that just may be well known stereotypes. Kwim?
post #95 of 174
But.... Aura Kitten has already done some homeschooling, IIRC. So those are her impressions of the HS community in her area. Kinda like I often see folks commenting on the negative impression they have of their local school district's management, educational philosophy, lack of diversity, underfunding, poor disciplinem etc.

I don't know how it makes sense to say she's just rattling off the ol' HS stereotypes out of sheer narrow-mindedness.

I mean, I don't think HS is necessarily sunshine and roses, either, and I think there are some legit criticisms of HS as most of us know it. The social skills thing, frankly, is a legit one to me. I remember too well the agony of learning to "swim" in social situations that my mom hadn't already carefully prescreened. Steep, steep learning curve, there!

I think it was worth it all for me, mind you, but I don't deny that there are often major issues. Not everyone will see them in the same light.

Doesn't mean I'm necessarily an ignorant sheeple, just that what I've seen of the HS movement as a homeschooled kid wasn't always as flattering as it's painted on MDC.

That said, I know that there are a lot of diverse situations out there, and it is really impossible to successfully generalize. On either side.
post #96 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
First, I wouldn't call them Myths since I've experienced them personally.


And second, of course kids don't JUST need to interact with kids their own age. What I'm saying is ~ look, in a culture where like 90+ % of the kids in the country attend public school and are socialized to those norms, those kids who aren't socialized are, in a way, socially handicapped.

As I said, the American system of education isn't the best ~ but it beats confinement to small homogeneous groups, which is what most homeschooling groups are.
Hmmm..I think you're mising the point., Most homeschoolers aren't "confined" to anything -- that's a big reason why people choose to homeschool...so they can be a part of the community at large.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the "socially handicapped" issue. Again, ALL of the homeschoolers I've met (ages range from 2-18) have been nice, respectful, intelligent, self-motivated individuals. They get along with people of all age ranges, and there has been ZERO "teen attitude" in the teens. So maybe you've been meeting the exceptions to the rule..?
post #97 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
Even the smallest age-grouped classroom tends to be larger and more diverse than the average homeschool group.

But then, I'm generalizing based on experiences here in severely rural Middle Of Nowhere, where hs groups tend to be 5 to 10 people max, and religion-based.

I'm sure if you compare say... a rural classroom in southern Wisconsin (v) a 30-member homeschool group in New York City... this generalization wouldn't hold true.

Furthermore, I'm still not saying that ps classrooms in America are ideal. They're far from ideal. If we're going to hold up a standard of education, let it be... Japan, say. I'd call their system darn near perfect.
Yes, I think this is why I find your comments regarding homeschooling...well, unbelievable. I live near Boston, and there are MANY homeschoolers around here, of all ages and colors.

So perhaps we should say that -- just like institutionalized schooling -- the experience of homeschooling may differ depending on where you live and the community you're a part of.
post #98 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkpmomtoboys View Post
I'm sorry - I guess I don't understand why so many hsers are responding to this thread. Certainly you are entitled to post anywhere you want, but in a thread entitled "why do you not homeschool?" it seems to me that attempting to refute people's clearly-labeled _opinions_ takes this thread a bit OT and makes it more of a debate than anything else.

Surely not what was intended by the OP...
I don't want someone who is considering homeschooling to receive (what I consider to be) a very wrong impression.

There are a lot of homeschoolers here who are living homeschooling, and who flat out don't agree with Aura Kitten. It's our right to jump in and say -- um, maybe that's the case in the very rural, very specific community in which you live -- but that's NOT the case for everyone else.
post #99 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes View Post
But.... Aura Kitten has already done some homeschooling, IIRC. So those are her impressions of the HS community in her area.
Well, kind of. She put her son in school when he was 6, right. So she only explored homeschooling for Kindergarden. Maybe that's not enough time to get a genuine feel for the local homeschooling community, or to find out what possibilities are out there? Or maybe it was enough time, who knows.
post #100 of 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWine View Post
There are a lot of homeschoolers here who are living homeschooling, and who flat out don't agree with Aura Kitten. It's our right to jump in and say -- um, maybe that's the case in the very rural, very specific community in which you live -- but that's NOT the case for everyone else.
My rural community is like what Aura Kitten has described. I don't have experience with socially maladjusted homeschoolers and I do know some wonderful homeschooling families but for various reasons they were not part of our social circle and we never were close to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWine View Post
Well, kind of. She put her son in school when he was 6, right. So she only explored homeschooling for Kindergarden. Maybe that's not enough time to get a genuine feel for the local homeschooling community, or to find out what possibilities are out there? Or maybe it was enough time, who knows.
We only homeschooled through part of Kindergarten and I thought it was enough time. The resources we had then were not meeting our needs and I wasn't ready to wait a couple of years.
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