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FFer's offended? - Page 2

post #21 of 369
If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?

I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others. This is rarely the case! It is, believe it or not, perfectly possible to be a rabid, ranting lactivist here, and a supportive, helpful, caring person in general. Every one needs a safe place to vent!!!

To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.

Speaking for myself, I KNOW that there are moms who tried desperately to breastfeed and could not. I KNOW that they NEED formula at this point. I think any attempt at nursing or relactation is courageous, honorable, and admirable. I can totally empathize with any mother whose heart is broken that they were honestly, truthfully, UNABLE to breastfeed.

But let's be HONEST here. When I come to complain about the ignorance about breastfeeding or the despicable marketing tactics of formula companies, I'M NOT MAKING PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS!!! And I don't think anyone else is either! Even if it may seem so when a post is about an acquaintance who stoped nursing after a few days. Those posts, to me, seem more about the lactivist trying to work out her own feelings on the subject, so that she can go forward and be supportive of her friend or acquantance as a mother, breastfeeding or not.
post #22 of 369
i think BM is best, and i wonder why so many FF, but i usually don't think they suck as moms or people because they choose (or don't choose, as in BCBD's case) to FF...
my main goal as a lactivist is to make sure that BFing is allowed, respected and no longer seen as "innappropriate" if done in public. i want to educate people about the benefits of BM, but i also don't want to become what i hate, which is someone who hates on other people. the reason i get so angry as a lactivist is because non-bFer's try to hate on NIP, or EBF or BF in general...so i don't want to be that way to FF, because you teach more with love and understanding than judgement.
in my heart of hearts, i think people who FF who don't have to are kind of weird, because i love to BF...but i know that instead of alienating people by getting on my soapbox and attacking FF, i would rather hear why they BF, find out how they were raised, how they view their bodies, how their family and friends are, how their birth experience and after care was...and other reasons why FF is something they have chosen to do...
we talk a lot about gentle discipline with our children, and i think that the best way to teach people is through love and understanding...reaching out rather than condemning. that's hard, and i am not saying i always do it.
that's the end of my deep thoughts for the day
post #23 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellymama View Post
i think BM is best, and i wonder why so many FF, but i usually don't think they suck as moms or people because they choose (or don't choose, as in BCBD's case) to FF...
my main goal as a lactivist is to make sure that BFing is allowed, respected and no longer seen as "innappropriate" if done in public. i want to educate people about the benefits of BM, but i also don't want to become what i hate, which is someone who hates on other people. the reason i get so angry as a lactivist is because non-bFer's try to hate on NIP, or EBF or BF in general...so i don't want to be that way to FF, because you teach more with love and understanding than judgement.
in my heart of hearts, i think people who FF who don't have to are kind of weird, because i love to BF...but i know that instead of alienating people by getting on my soapbox and attacking FF, i would rather hear why they BF, find out how they were raised, how they view their bodies, how their family and friends are, how their birth experience and after care was...and other reasons why FF is something they have chosen to do...
we talk a lot about gentle discipline with our children, and i think that the best way to teach people is through love and understanding...reaching out rather than condemning. that's hard, and i am not saying i always do it.
that's the end of my deep thoughts for the day
good post!
post #24 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by My4Boys View Post
If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?

I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others. This is rarely the case! It is, believe it or not, perfectly possible to be a rabid, ranting lactivist here, and a supportive, helpful, caring person in general. Every one needs a safe place to vent!!!

To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.

Speaking for myself, I KNOW that there are moms who tried desperately to breastfeed and could not. I KNOW that they NEED formula at this point. I think any attempt at nursing or relactation is courageous, honorable, and admirable. I can totally empathize with any mother whose heart is broken that they were honestly, truthfully, UNABLE to breastfeed.

But let's be HONEST here. When I come to complain about the ignorance about breastfeeding or the despicable marketing tactics of formula companies, I'M NOT MAKING PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS!!! And I don't think anyone else is either! Even if it may seem so when a post is about an acquaintance who stoped nursing after a few days. Those posts, to me, seem more about the lactivist trying to work out her own feelings on the subject, so that she can go forward and be supportive of her friend or acquantance as a mother, breastfeeding or not.

NIP is VERY common where I live. People who are against NIP IMO are just negative people, who for whatever reasons have unrealistic thoughts and views on what is natural and healthy.
post #25 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by My4Boys View Post
I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others.
bolding mine

ITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by My4Boys View Post
To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.
These are my thoughts exactly. That is why I post here. I am not going to apologize for my opinions. And my opinions are general, or for my family only. Not for anyone personally.
post #26 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by My4Boys View Post
If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?
Because you're asking the wrong people. Whether or not we were personally able to BF, everyone on a lactivism board is supportive of it. Go to MainstreamParentingBoard.com and post the same question; I suspect you'll get different responses.

It would be like if I went to one of my Jewish forums and posted asking if people were offended by circumcision. You're not going to get many people saying yes.
post #27 of 369
Not that I'm exactly your run of the mill formula feeder, but no, I'm not. I formula fed after failing to breastfeed (I produced no milk and didn't have access to milk bank). Undiagnosed thyroid issue likely caused it in hindsight, so I still have hope for bf'ing my next. The only time I get offended is when other lactivists who didn't know me assumed that I was just a lazy parent and didn't care to hear WHY I used formula, who didn't think I felt real, honest heartbreak at not being able to develop a bf'ing relationship with my daughter, as I had my heart set on extended breastfeeding when I was pregnant. It did help me seat myself in a non-judgemental attitude towards other moms. I reserve judgement until after I know them and their story.
post #28 of 369
As a bit of an outsider here, as I've formula fed my boys and haven't the slightest notion what extended breastfeeding is like for mother OR baby, I want to say that the concept of lactivism is an important one. And the implementation of it - when I read posts about nurse-ins held in response to poor public response to a nip "incident", for example - is a critical one. What happens here, from my perspective, is that the generalized concept is accidentally applied personally.

When I first visited this board, I was terribly hurt. I thought that *I* was being attacked, personally, by every staunch bf advocate on mdc. I perceived judgement for my breast reduction choice, and I got myself quite angry over it. In reality, it's just not that way. Lactivists are angry at the ESTABLISHMENT that promotes ff'ing and prevents/sabotages breastfeeding by every woman in America. They're not angry at ME, or at YOU, for making a choice for your children, regardless of you made that choice. Sometimes, the posts feel personalized. Sometimes, it feels like you're under attack. Well, maybe it hits close to home for you and it's time to evaluate yourself. I've realized how guilty I feel for choosing a breast reduction without really thinking through the consequences, and I'm working through that guilt myself. It took coming here, reading through this forum and other bf forums to learn that about myself.

It's not about ONE PERSON. It's about the generalized YOU. If you're personally offended, you're either reading it wrong or you have something to deal with on your own.
post #29 of 369
I have to agree with some of the PPs who have reminded us that this is the lactivism area. I come here because I want to converse with others who think breastmilk is best and make no apologies for it. We have to apologize too many other places than to have to do so on the LACTIVISM board. I personally am not gonna ever be rude to a mom who FFs by no choice of her own and probably not actually rude to a mom who does it by choice, I might kindly speak my mind, but not rudely. But I would, to answer the OP, imagine that by-choice FFers probably are offended by bf as for some they choose to FF because of societal, sexual, etc hang ups about nursing. For instance think about the people you have offended (many who don't even have boobs) because you BF or NIP. It is human nature to find fault in something different and this case is no different I imagine.
post #30 of 369
Personally, I think the LACTIVISM board is the place where people should be MOST concerned about the feelings of formula feeders - because if you're trying to change people's minds about breastfeeding, then understanding their feelings is pretty damn important.

I don't know why so many people seem to think that "lactivism forum" is equivalent to "place where we can hang out and say nasty things about people we disagree with."
post #31 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by My4Boys View Post
If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?

I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others. This is rarely the case! It is, believe it or not, perfectly possible to be a rabid, ranting lactivist here, and a supportive, helpful, caring person in general. Every one needs a safe place to vent!!!

To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.

Speaking for myself, I KNOW that there are moms who tried desperately to breastfeed and could not. I KNOW that they NEED formula at this point. I think any attempt at nursing or relactation is courageous, honorable, and admirable. I can totally empathize with any mother whose heart is broken that they were honestly, truthfully, UNABLE to breastfeed.

But let's be HONEST here. When I come to complain about the ignorance about breastfeeding or the despicable marketing tactics of formula companies, I'M NOT MAKING PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS!!! And I don't think anyone else is either! Even if it may seem so when a post is about an acquaintance who stoped nursing after a few days. Those posts, to me, seem more about the lactivist trying to work out her own feelings on the subject, so that she can go forward and be supportive of her friend or acquantance as a mother, breastfeeding or not.
: Well said Momma.
post #32 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by pookel View Post
I don't know why so many people seem to think that "lactivism forum" is equivalent to "place where we can hang out and say nasty things about people we disagree with."

I disagree with this statement. I have never said a nasty thing about people.

You mostly hear about moms who try to bf and then have problems and quit and ff. I have never heard about a mom who tries to ff, realizes it is not a good choice, and then bf's. I wonder why that is? I would like to help mom's make a good choice from the beginning.
post #33 of 369
I havent' been on the boards long, so I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone on here chose to formula feed?? If people are interested in the slightest about this website they are probably educating themselves and socializing with like minded individuals, and most likely are NOT the type of people who would be against nursing in public. I may be wrong?
post #34 of 369
bfing is not a 'privilege', nor is human milk 'liquid gold', it's just normal. default.

walking, seeing, chewing, hearing, breastfeeding: all these things come standard. sometimes things go whack and organs don't function as they should- it's always good to appreciate things working as they ought, but someone needing glasses to see is a different situation than someone choosing to walk around blindfolded.

it's just normal. not heroic (in most circumstances), not 'extra', not anything but the everyday act of a postpartum female mammal lactating.

i wouldn't feel guilty if i needed to wear glasses. i wouldn't feel guilty to use a wheelchair if i needed to, to get around. why would i feel guilty about giving my infant formula if i had no alternative? (and mythical affordable milk banks aside, most women who cannot for whatever reason successfully lactate will need formula).

glasses aren't that uncommon either, but it would be rather odd to wear them if you didn't need them (and highly expensive when we expect society to provide glasses for people who can see perfectly well, because it's their 'choice').
post #35 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
bfing is not a 'privilege', nor is human milk 'liquid gold', it's just normal. default.

walking, seeing, chewing, hearing, breastfeeding: all these things come standard. sometimes things go whack and organs don't function as they should- it's always good to appreciate things working as they ought, but someone needing glasses to see is a different situation than someone choosing to walk around blindfolded.

it's just normal. not heroic (in most circumstances), not 'extra', not anything but the everyday act of a postpartum female mammal lactating.

i wouldn't feel guilty if i needed to wear glasses. i wouldn't feel guilty to use a wheelchair if i needed to, to get around. why would i feel guilty about giving my infant formula if i had no alternative? (and mythical affordable milk banks aside, most women who cannot for whatever reason successfully lactate will need formula).

glasses aren't that uncommon either, but it would be rather odd to wear them if you didn't need them (and highly expensive when we expect society to provide glasses for people who can see perfectly well, because it's their 'choice').
I do feel guilty that I have to ff. IMO Breastmilk is like liquid gold compared to formula in my daughters case because it would be so much better for her stomach.
post #36 of 369
i can honestly alot of these post have exellant point of views. i freqent this lactivist forum because i want to relate with those who have the same views and values on bf as i do. i only have one friend at the moment who is bf'. i am glad i encouraged her to do so. sometimes i feel like we have to walk on eggshells in this forum so we dont offend someone who ff. i will say it again, i realize that some women cant bf because the have genuine medical issues or that they have adopted. no one here is trying to attack these women. most lactivsts here can empathize. they had no choice. but i know when i am in public and i see someone ff their baby i feel bad for the baby who misses out for what ever reason the mother had. that is just my honest feeling.
post #37 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by steph76 View Post
I am sure that some are and some are not.

I would guess that if they have any guilt they are offended.

Of course someone that tried and was unable to bf is probably very sad also.
It does make me sad. I mean, I"m happy to see it portrayed, but it's just another reminder I've failed to do what every mammal can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
bfing is not a 'privilege', nor is human milk 'liquid gold', it's just normal. default.

walking, seeing, chewing, hearing, breastfeeding: all these things come standard. sometimes things go whack and organs don't function as they should- it's always good to appreciate things working as they ought, but someone needing glasses to see is a different situation than someone choosing to walk around blindfolded.

it's just normal. not heroic (in most circumstances), not 'extra', not anything but the everyday act of a postpartum female mammal lactating.

i wouldn't feel guilty if i needed to wear glasses. i wouldn't feel guilty to use a wheelchair if i needed to, to get around. why would i feel guilty about giving my infant formula if i had no alternative? (and mythical affordable milk banks aside, most women who cannot for whatever reason successfully lactate will need formula).

glasses aren't that uncommon either, but it would be rather odd to wear them if you didn't need them (and highly expensive when we expect society to provide glasses for people who can see perfectly well, because it's their 'choice').

Well, if you're in a wheel chair, say, do you thinking you'd have people askig you "so, do you HAVE to be be in there or did you just not want to walk?"?

Cause I've had that happen with ff'ing. Still upsets me. And when I did explain, (which I should NOT have had to, it was beyond rude to ask that), I wasn't really believed. I couldn't even finish the explanation before people were saying "that's normal, it can hurt, and it's normal for baby to lose weight at first." Adn then turn away and not let me even finish the story.


So excuse me if I think lactivists are usually rude & judgmental. (I mean more irl than here, altho I've seen it here)

As for the OP, no, it doesn't bother me at all. I think both should be portrayed. I don't mean it should be exactly even, I do think nursing should be portrayed a lot more than it is.
post #38 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2snugbugs View Post
I disagree with this statement. I have never said a nasty thing about people.
I don't think most people have, but it certainly happens from time to time. I don't want to get specific because that's against the UA, but I have definitely seen hurtful things said here before.
post #39 of 369
Look, who are these people irl 'judging' the ffers? I've never said it was 'poison', I've never laid bs on ffing aquaintances-there are jerks everywhere, and a very minute percentage of 'lactivists' are included in that bunch.

Whereas jerky people irl often talk smack about (and to) bfers. of This whole argument is revolving around some straw tit. I have never met one person in my life that went around saying rude things to ffers. It's the freaking majority in this culture, I'm supposed to believe rude lactivists are everywhere, dumping on the women who can't bf?

If you are statistically unfortunate enough to run into one genuinely asshattish lactivist, is it going to lead you to what- stop feeding your child? What power do they have over you (unlike novice bfers who can easily be bullied & shamed in this culture out of successful nursing entirely)?
post #40 of 369
No, not at all-- I actually wish lactivists were more vehement in some ways! If that were the case, I'd have seen more NIP than I have (which might have helped me figure out how to latch DS before it was too late) and there would probably be more milk banks out there, and DS would be getting more than 2 ounces of breastmilk per day on top of his formula.
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