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Originally Posted by mz_libbie22  I don't have unlimited funds to travel the world that I, as the parent, make a point to provide this knowledge through books.
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And of course books (and tv, and radio, and the internet) are good for imparting knowledge about things we can't directly experience. The question is, who decides what to use these things for. You, or your kid?
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| It seems like with unschooling, the quality of the education still is dependent upon the child's environment and the amount of effort put forth by the parents. |
I agree with this. It's easier for my kids to have access to quality materials because my dh and I value that and we make it a priority in our lives.
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| The child is still being taught, though certainly in a more subtle and child-friendly way than you see in a school. |
My kids learn, but I don't "teach" them unless they ask me to. They learn from working with me, from hearing books, from watching videos, from taking trips, from discussing things, etc., but I don't choose what to "teach" them.
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| It seems like unschooling parents are denying their natural role as teacher by saying their kids are 100% in responsible for their own education. |
My kids are responsible for deciding what to learn and when. I am responsible for assisting them in whatever way they ask in order to accomplish the learning goals they set for themselves (and that sounds very formal, but it's not; we don't write up goals or even discuss them, but my kids know what they want to learn and when they are done with it).
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| I feel like some credit is owed to the parent for all the time spent reading aloud, explaining things and answering questions, transporting kids to museums--that's teaching! To me, parenting and teaching are the same things. |
Fair enough. I agree that my kids learn a lot from me. But it's not because I prioritize what they need to know and intentionally try to impart it to them.
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| Even talking is a taught skill. Though it seems to arise spontaneously, it is still something babies are taught (by example) to do by their elders. |
Perhaps, but do you decide which sound or which word your child will work on today? Do you tell your child he can't move on to "da-da-da" because his "ba-ba-ba" is still a bit unclear? When your child says, "kitty," do you tell him that kitty is on the schedule for next week and that this week's word is "doggy"? I'd imagine not. Your child learns by example from you but at his or her own pace and according to his or her immediate needs and capacities.
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| When I make choices about what toys to buy, what books to read at bedtime, what activities to do, etc. I have a specific intention and that is to create a learning rich environment. |
A child can have a learning-rich environment even if they choose their own activities. I assist me kids in choosing books, toys, trips, etc., but my intention is to provide them with information to make their own choice, not to make the choice for them because I know better what's in their best interest. My kids don't know all the options because they are young; my job is to assist them to make choices in an age-appropriate way. If we are going out to dinner, I don't say, "We are going out for Thai food so you can have a cultural experience." That woudl be unnecessarily restrictive. Nor do I say, "Here's the phone book with every restaurant in the city. Pick one." That would be unnecessarily overwhelming. What I do is take in mind their food preferences and previous experiences at certain restaurants and make a few suggestions. They can choose on or come up with their own suggestion, and we all decide together. (Although, of course, occasionally I decide where I want to go and invite them to join me if they so desire, but since I decided *I* want Indian food, that's there *I* am going. And I give the kids the same courtesy.)
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| I want my DS to know the story of Odysseus, so I make a point to read it to him. |
There are definitely books I think my kids would like. So I
ask them if they want me to read them. If they say no, I don't, no matter how much I
wanted to read it to them. What will my kids gain being forced to sit through a book they don't want to hear?
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| By the definitions I've come across on this board, my intent to impart knowledge on my DS means I wouldn't be considered an unschooler. |
To me it's your intent to choose what your son does that makes you not an unschooler.
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| But how can you not do this with young kids? |
By offering kids options and letting them choose (or choose not to choose, as the case may be).
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| I am perfectly fine admitting that I don't trust my 5 yr old to learn it if the need arises. |
That, also, makes you not an unschooler (at least in my book). To me, the fundamental idea of unschooling is trust. Without that, nothing else "unschoolish" that you do makes you an unschooler.
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| It seems unschoolers don't see any information as more important to know than others. |
At least for me, I do think that there are certain things that are more worthy of knowing than others. But it's not my job to make that decision for my kids.
dm
The first example is exactly how I am "hearing" him.
But I'm still going to respond, because fourlittlebirds took the time to explain what she meant to me. 
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Literally. All over myself.
I was more wondering what you meant by other methods having their own goals, not so much wondering if you were talking about a, b, c, or the relationship between them. But I agree, I think I get what you're saying, and it's time to let this go 
