I Know This is Wrong...but WHY?? - Page 3

[sarbear]

Originally Posted by AppleCrisp

Well, its going from bad to worse. I spent all afternoon taking apart the crib and putting the mattress on the floor. Same old story - slept soundly until 1 a.m., then up SCREAMING, rolling, and kicking for THREE HOURS. I don't know what I'm going to do. I haven't gotten any sleep in almost a week. The child simply will not sleep. I am at my wits end. And he wants to be latched on ALL NIGHT. I feel like I'm going to go nuts if I don't get those little teeth off my nipples for awhile. DH is so angry with me, angry at the whole situation, and won't help except to tell me he needs to Ferbered and its all my fault for setting him (DS) up for this by letting him sleep with us. I really have no ideas left at all except to have this child permanently attached to my boobs all night long.

Off to make some coffee and cry into my yogurt.

Oh no Well, I posted on a similar thread going on at the moment of my CIO questions as I to am suffering from sleep deprivation, so I feel your pain...
Have you read NCSS? I haven't read Ferber, so I can't speak to that, but we are trying some of the techniques Pantley recommends and having mild success. Off to my yogurt...

[WhaleinGaloshes]

You have all my sympathy.

I really want to re-iterate my support and very strong belief that you did not set him up for this -- nature did. It is very difficult to go through in our modern society where we try to do so many things with only small, nuclear support systems, etc....none of which helps you right now. But I can't help but wish that you didn't have such a strong voice whispering in your ear that you *caused* this.

You're going to hate me but...is he teething? The one year molars kept my DD wide awake for several hours between 1am and 5am. I really believe it is a very painful process for those big, broad teeth to break through. And the thought of CIO/Ferberizing a baby in pain is a special kind of awful for me.

My advice, annoying as it is going to be, is to try to make your life easier, nap, get help from DH and family and friends to help you rest and give both yourself and your baby a bit more time. If you can't do that and still take care of Baby and yourself at the same time -- which I do not want to imply is any kind of failure it's just a reality of life, sincerely -- I suggest Jay Gordon's article: http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp -- not for nightweaning but hopfully for shifting the nursing into a new pattern giving you a hunk of time off.

You'll get through it, you really will. It is very hard what you're doing. I hope you get some rest soon.

[Lovemy3babies]

I cant co-sleep, although I tried and wish I could. At night I wanna cuddle my babies and sleep. But I am SUCH a light sleeper, I never slept when they were even in the room with me, so they had to go

With that said, I am now SO glad that I cant. My sisters son was in her room forever, and whenever he wakes up, she would feed him, let him get up and play, ect. So now, he NATURALLY wakes up every night at the same time, 1 am, to eat and play.

I am very proud that all my kids sleep through the night. And the twins are 20 and have been for a year. Joshua has since maybe 2 months old. He will sleep 10 hours straight at night. I would feed my kids their last feedings, put them in their beds, door closed, lights off, and voila, asleep for the night. I didnt coddle them to sleep, and they learned to sleep. Very quickly may I add. A mother nursing and cuddling is stimulating to a child. And it does make them continue to need it. And no, it is NOT normal for a 14 month old to not sleep for more then 2 hours.

Like I said, I wish I could co-sleep cause I love snuggling, but I know that it isnt best for out children. They are champ sleepers, and I need that. And they need that. If they dont sleep good, they get crabby all day. I just put my kids down for their nap in their beds, and they are playing They will be asleep in no time. They dont even cry in there because they know that mommy will come and get them in just a few minutes. Good luck.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies

I cant co-sleep, although I tried and wish I could. At night I wanna cuddle my babies and sleep. But I am SUCH a light sleeper, I never slept when they were even in the room with me, so they had to go

With that said, I am now SO glad that I cant. My sisters son was in her room forever, and whenever he wakes up, she would feed him, let him get up and play, ect. So now, he NATURALLY wakes up every night at the same time, 1 am, to eat and play.

I am very proud that all my kids sleep through the night. And the twins are 20 and have been for a year. Joshua has since maybe 2 months old. He will sleep 10 hours straight at night. I would feed my kids their last feedings, put them in their beds, door closed, lights off, and voila, asleep for the night. I didnt coddle them to sleep, and they learned to sleep. Very quickly may I add. A mother nursing and cuddling is stimulating to a child. And it does make them continue to need it. And no, it is NOT normal for a 14 month old to not sleep for more then 2 hours.

Like I said, I wish I could co-sleep cause I love snuggling, but I know that it isnt best for out children. They are champ sleepers, and I need that. And they need that. If they dont sleep good, they get crabby all day. I just put my kids down for their nap in their beds, and they are playing They will be asleep in no time. They dont even cry in there because they know that mommy will come and get them in just a few minutes. Good luck.

Spoken like a mama of easy sleepers. No offense intended, but your post sounds really self righteous, especially to a mama like the OP, who is struggling so hard to get a good night's sleep.

Your assertion is that you don't "coddle" your kids to sleep- implying that those of us who cosleep DO? Hardly. I did not coddle my son at night- if he woke & needed to nurse, I nursed him. In the daytime, if he was hungry, I'd feed him, & I didn't consider that coddling, either.

You say:

A mother nursing and cuddling is stimulating to a child. And it does make them continue to need it. And no, it is NOT normal for a 14 month old to not sleep for more then 2 hours.

I disagree. Joe barely woke up at night if I nursed him. If he would stir & I did NOT nurse him, he'd wake fully & cry- that is stimulating, & not in a good way. It might not be normal for YOUR 14 month old to not sleep more than two hours, but it was certainly normal for Joe. He had needs, & I met them, & because of that, today he is an amazing sleeper. He falls asleep when he is tired, wakes up when he is rested, & he can sleep anywhere. I am so glad I did it the way I did it.

[Aura_Kitten]

My dd JUST started sleeping for a solid 6-8 hour stretch (ie "Nighttime")... and she'll be 3 in a few months.


Sorry if this has already been asked but, is there any reason you can't co-sleep? I would be way easier on you than having to get up constantly.

[Aura_Kitten]

Originally Posted by easy_goer

You have all my sympathy.

I really want to re-iterate my support and very strong belief that you did not set him up for this -- nature did. It is very difficult to go through in our modern society where we try to do so many things with only small, nuclear support systems, etc....none of which helps you right now. But I can't help but wish that you didn't have such a strong voice whispering in your ear that you *caused* this.

You're going to hate me but...is he teething? The one year molars kept my DD wide awake for several hours between 1am and 5am. I really believe it is a very painful process for those big, broad teeth to break through. And the thought of CIO/Ferberizing a baby in pain is a special kind of awful for me.

My advice, annoying as it is going to be, is to try to make your life easier, nap, get help from DH and family and friends to help you rest and give both yourself and your baby a bit more time. If you can't do that and still take care of Baby and yourself at the same time -- which I do not want to imply is any kind of failure it's just a reality of life, sincerely -- I suggest Jay Gordon's article: http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp -- not for nightweaning but hopfully for shifting the nursing into a new pattern giving you a hunk of time off.

You'll get through it, you really will. It is very hard what you're doing. I hope you get some rest soon.

YES that. s to the OP!

[JuicyPakwan]

[QUOTE=joesmom;8209445]Spoken like a mama of easy sleepers. No offense intended, but your post sounds really self righteous, especially to a mama like the OP, who is struggling so hard to get a good night's sleep.

Your assertion is that you don't "coddle" your kids to sleep- implying that those of us who cosleep DO? Hardly. I did not coddle my son at night- if he woke & needed to nurse, I nursed him. In the daytime, if he was hungry, I'd feed him, & I didn't consider that coddling, either. ]

ITA!!! I have a sister that has genetically good sleepers. She does not CIO she nurses and her babies sleep through the night almost from the beginning. She even sleeps with them but most of her babies preferred their own sleep space. She often didn't believe in sleep problems or that others where doing something wrong. It is very frusterating to have this kind of problem judged against what I consider the anomaly of a baby that sleeps through the night.

I have many friends who use CIO never cosleep and have HUGE sleep problems with their kids same as some of us who co sleep and visaversa some of my friends who CIO or cosleep and have excellent sleepers. So I think it is a load of crap you can TRAIN a child to sleep beautifully. Either they do or they don't end of story.

To OP many of us have been where you are I am currently there with a 12 mo. old who wants to nurse for and hour+ to go for naps or night. It is a phase they do grow out of it. A week is hardly a pattern and is as previously suggested probably a growth spurt of some kind whether it be teeth or whatever. It is my understanding that most physical growth happens at night and can be uncomfortable/painful. The nursing all night does drive me bananas especially if I have been nursed dry on both sides it becomes painful. And for your dh tell him the next time he is pregnant and gives birth he can choose how to get the baby to sleep better and take all the blame when it fails. Accompany that with a big smack to the back of the head.
(jk, I think)

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by joesmom

Spoken like a mama of easy sleepers. No offense intended, but your post sounds really self righteous, especially to a mama like the OP, who is struggling so hard to get a good night's sleep.

You are MUCH more polite than me.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by Anakna4

It is my understanding that most physical growth happens at night and can be uncomfortable/painful.

Now that you mention this, I can tell you that Joe has been having "growing pains" in his legs the last few weeks. He has literally grown at LEAST an inch in the last month, so the pains are not a surprise, but yes, they do occur mostly at night. So that is a pattern that continues through childhood. Interesting...

Originally Posted by D_McG

You are MUCH more polite than me.

Thanks. I'm not, really. I am just sickeningly sweet when I need to be. That isn't what I WANTED to post. :

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

And no, it is NOT normal for a 14 month old to not sleep for more then 2 hours.

Of course it is normal. Even as adults most of us wake multiple times to roll over or get up and go pee or wake up hungry etc etc. : Both mine were every hour to 2 hour wakers until past 2yo.

Just because your kids slept thru the night dosnt mean that all kids can or will do this. Kids do most of their growing while asleep so it only stands to reason that they will be restless sleepers. And need to nurse at night to get all the nutrition they need. Of course not all kids will need to do this but from what I have read most will.

[AppleCrisp]

Originally Posted by easy_goer

You have all my sympathy.

I really want to re-iterate my support and very strong belief that you did not set him up for this -- nature did. It is very difficult to go through in our modern society where we try to do so many things with only small, nuclear support systems, etc....none of which helps you right now. But I can't help but wish that you didn't have such a strong voice whispering in your ear that you *caused* this.

You're going to hate me but...is he teething? The one year molars kept my DD wide awake for several hours between 1am and 5am. I really believe it is a very painful process for those big, broad teeth to break through. And the thought of CIO/Ferberizing a baby in pain is a special kind of awful for me.

You'll get through it, you really will. It is very hard what you're doing. I hope you get some rest soon.

Thank you for being empathetic. Its possible he's teething - he's 14 mos and only has 6 teeth and its been months and months since he's gotten any. I can't get a good look in there.

I do want to night wean, desperately, but he is even more desperate - that's why we were up for all that time last night. He was determined to nurse, and I was determined not to. But at times I just can't take the physical contact anymore - he also has roving hands and has to yank and pull on the other boob the whole time, and with the heat its been awful, as much as I love him, having his sweaty, sticky little hands pinching me and trying to get under my shirt all night is just too much.

Thank you for the link.

[Kewpie]

I used to think I "did" something to DD, met her needs too much, held her too often in her early days. She was almost 2 before she slept through the night and now at over 3, still needs someone to be next to her to fall asleep. She was, and is, a higher needs kid. She spent the first 6 months of her life in my arms, no slings, no swings, no strollers, no cribs, not because I necessarily wanted it that way, but she'd scream if she wasn't.

Now I've had the ultimate nature vs. nurture experiement...twins! Born the same time, spent their first two weeks in identical environments (special care nursery) before coming home, in the same "routine". And oh my, they are SO different. DS puts himself to sleep most of the time. Hates the sling, isn't terribly fond of co-sleeping, prefers to be sprawled out flat on his back. DD on the other hand is shaping up to be a lot like her sister, she needs help getting to sleep.

So there, two kids, same environment, same parenting...totally different needs. Of course they're only 5 weeks old, all this can change.

[gwynthfair]

Originally Posted by AppleCrisp

Well, its going from bad to worse. I spent all afternoon taking apart the crib and putting the mattress on the floor. Same old story - slept soundly until 1 a.m., then up SCREAMING, rolling, and kicking for THREE HOURS. I don't know what I'm going to do. I haven't gotten any sleep in almost a week. The child simply will not sleep. I am at my wits end. And he wants to be latched on ALL NIGHT. I feel like I'm going to go nuts if I don't get those little teeth off my nipples for awhile. DH is so angry with me, angry at the whole situation, and won't help except to tell me he needs to Ferbered and its all my fault for setting him (DS) up for this by letting him sleep with us. I really have no ideas left at all except to have this child permanently attached to my boobs all night long.

Off to make some coffee and cry into my yogurt.

Wow. Nearly the exact same thing happened to me last night. My DD, who USED to sleep through the night woke up at 12:30 to play and didn't go to sleep again until after 3:00. I was so frustrated. DP just went and slept on the couch. :

I can tell you one thing. All this nightwaking might be good and normal for her, but it certainly isn't for me. I got about 4 hours of sleep and I AM CRANKY! Unfortunately, I have to be to work at the same time everyday regardless of when she decides to sleep.

Anyway, I feel for ya. :yawning:

[nylecoj]

Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies

I am very proud that all my kids sleep through the night. And the twins are 20 and have been for a year. Joshua has since maybe 2 months old. He will sleep 10 hours straight at night. I would feed my kids their last feedings, put them in their beds, door closed, lights off, and voila, asleep for the night. I didnt coddle them to sleep, and they learned to sleep. Very quickly may I add. A mother nursing and cuddling is stimulating to a child. And it does make them continue to need it. And no, it is NOT normal for a 14 month old to not sleep for more then 2 hours.

Bleh. You are *proud* that your kids are good sleepers? Why? All you did was feed them, put them down, and leave. I'm gonna go out on a lark here and say that if the rest of us, with crappy sleepers, did that very thing, our kids were be screaming within seconds. I know mine would.

It's great that your kids sleep - really, but why do you have to post about it here, when the OP is obviously struggling so much? Go to a thread devoted to "Mother's of Exceptional Sleepers", although I bet you won't find that so easily considering *most* babies are not like yours.

Sorry for ranting, but it's incredibly frustrating to those of us with challenging sleepers to have people like you come along and make it out as though we are coddling our kids, or are in some way inferior to you and your fabulous sleepers.

Grrrrr.

Applecrisp - No sage wisdom here. I've decided that I need an attitude adjustment about dd's sleeping because otherwise I was super cranky. I found that if I sleep with her, (or even lay down and then steal away half an hour later or so) she'll sleep for about 2.5 hours for her first nap. I've been laying down with her and conking out the past few days and although the house is a mess and the laundry is piling up, *I* feel much better.

I'm so so so sorry that dh isn't understanding the situation ... that's awful.

Remember this mama - right now you are sacrificing yourself for your baby. It's hard and drives you crazy, but please pat yourself on the back for a job well done because you have not given in to all those people who tell you it would be easier to just let the munchkin cry it out.

(FWIW, I would totally go nuts if I had to keep my nipple in my babe's mouth too)

Hang in there.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by nylecoj

Bleh. You are *proud* that your kids are good sleepers? Why? All you did was feed them, put them down, and leave. I'm gonna go out on a lark here and say that if the rest of us, with crappy sleepers, did that very thing, our kids were be screaming within seconds. I know mine would.

Now, see, that's what I wanted to post!

[A Boy's Mama]

I posted this in another thread but I meant to post it here, so sorry for the cross post!

For me, the solution to severe sleep deprivation was moving my son into his own bed and night weaning. And honestly, reading over and over again that the solution to my sleep deprivation was to just nurse the baby in my sleep was laughable because it was just not possible for us for several reasons. It was frustrating because I felt like I was somehow doing it all wrong or that I somehow just wasn't up to the task of parenthood. So at almost 8 months of age, I moved him to his crib and in the course of him getting used to sleeping in his crib he night weaned himself and started sleeping through the night. I did this for me because I knew that something had to change because up until that point, I felt like I was white knuckling it just to get through every day. My need for sleep was desperate. Something very interesting happened once my son started sleeping through the night... my generally grumpy and difficult to soothe baby became HAPPY. And he started taking naps during the day and he started being able to focus on playing with me and his toys much more than he had before. So it turns out that it wasn't just me that was suffering from sleep deprivation, so was he.

I'm posting this not because I think that cosleeping and nursing on demand during the night are bad things (of course they're not!) just that it's not always the best option available for every family. Sleep is not a want but a need for everyone and when someone's sleep needs aren't being met, then something needs to change. If that means bring the baby into bed and nurse on demand rather than whatever was going on before, then so be it. If that means trying other sleeping arrangements like maybe the baby sleeping in his own space, then ok. The point is, sleep is not a luxury but just as important as eating healthy food and drinking water and everyone's sleep (including mama's) should be made as high a priority as eating and drinking.

For the record, my son has been a great sleeper ever since moving to his own bed. He loves his bed and is now so proud of his new big boy bed that he shows everyone who comes over. Bedtime is a happy time and he knows that if he calls out for me, of course I will come.

Once I started getting the sleep I needed, parenting became easier and fun and happy and all of the things I knew it would be.

Sorry for such a long post!

Edited to add: Moving my son to his crib was not an overnight process. It was not totally easy (which is why it wasn't an easy decision to make but again, I was pretty desperate at this point) but with a lot of soothing and back patting and encouraging, he was fine in his crib. It meant for less sleep in the short run (which was a TOUGH decision to make!) but I knew it needed to happen and it was almost immediately obvious that it was the right decision to make for my family.

[OGirlieMama]

Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies

I am very proud that all my kids sleep through the night.

How about instead of proud, be grateful? Because you are a very lucky lady, and it probably has very little to do with anything you did or didn't do.

[Jane Plane]

Originally Posted by A Boy's Mama

I'm posting this not because I think that cosleeping and nursing on demand during the night are bad things (of course they're not!) just that it's not always the best option available for every family. Sleep is not a want but a need for everyone and when someone's sleep needs aren't being met, then something needs to change. If that means bring the baby into bed and nurse on demand rather than whatever was going on before, then so be it. If that means trying other sleeping arrangements like maybe the baby sleeping in his own space, then ok. The point is, sleep is not a luxury but just as important as eating healthy food and drinking water and everyone's sleep (including mama's) should be made as high a priority as eating and drinking.

ITA

What a great post.

[Jane Plane]

And I agree that having a child sleep through the night is sometimes more an art than a science, and even when you think you've got the science down, why tempt the gods by posting about what great sleepers you've got!

[Maiasaura]

i had a horrid sleeper. it does end. it does, it does. hang onto that one phrase that makes you want to deck the person that says it: THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

my ds is six now, and we still cosleep and he does still nurse some, though only for a minute and not every night (but only at the beginning of the night, now).
for comparison, when he was little, it took anywhere from 30-45m to put him down for a nap, and anywhere from 1-3 hours to get him to bed at night. i tried *everything*, i mean it. except CIO. that is the one thing i would not do. though believe me, there were nights that i wanted to, i was so frustrated.

AND i'm a single mama. so it was *always* on me.

so.....i had like six pillows on the bed, and i hid behind them: a fluffy novel, a more in-depth read (something mind-enhancing, lol), water with a sports cap, tissues, and sometimes even hershey kisses and i ALWAYS made sure my bladder was empty because i never knew how long i'd be there.
there were times, i admit it now, that i lay there, nipple in mouth, breathing deeply, and to all outward appearances relaxing, but with the most horrible violent thoughts in my head. in my head i was pounding the headboard. i was sometimes throwing my kid through the window. i was screaming at the top of my lungs.
but not always. what got me through it was knowing it would end someday and that i was doing for my super-high-need child what he obviously needed.

i'm not even sure when it all ended, but i can assure you it wasn't 14 months. it was more like around age 3 or so. AND it was gradual, or i'd remember when it ended!
anyway he's 6 now and you'd *never* know he had sleep issues. he sleeps solidly through from the time he goes down, till morning. unless he has to pee, or is squirmy for some reason. he's so out of it that if i don't get him up, in his first hour asleep, to pee, he wets the bed. he talks in his sleep at 11ish every night, for a second or two. he's pretty regular.
and i am SO GRATEFUL.

i'm grateful that for whatever reason he needed, i was there for him when he was little.

don't worry, mama!!! it WILL end. i promise. and you are doing a fantastic job.

i'm sorry your DH isn't on board with you. would he be willing to sleep separately for awhile? if you are committed to parenting your ds to sleep, maybe it can be just on you. i did it. it was hard, but it's doable. oh, and it's still OK (here's permission, in case you need it ) to "sleep when the baby sleeps". that's one thing i did, make sleep a priority, and i still do. i'm always the rested mama maybe one day i will not need 9 hours a night! i got it in fits and starts when my ds was little. now i get it all in a row. woohoo!

hang in there, mama. you're doing just fine.

pamela