What to do about MIL and church? - Page 3

[salmontree]

No way would I ever let a child of mine go to a church with beliefs so counter to my own. I plan on teaching my children about other belief systems but that's different then actually letting them go to a church that preaches hate. Odds are, they are also talking about atheists going to hell... What if your ds puts two and two together and realizes that the church is saying that his own mommy is going to go to hell? That would be really scary for a two or three year old to think about..

[lalaland42]

Adding to my pp

I live in the bible belt and have been exposed to some people whose churches bash gays and I have a very strong visceral reaction to hearing a church is gay bashing. To me, sending my child to a church that does this is almost the same as sending my child to a KKK rally. The churches here are not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type, they are the sinner should be dispatched to answer to god type. Your MILs church could be a kinder, gentler gay bashing type but I honestly do not care, I would never take the risk that my child might grow up to follow in the Rev. Phelps footsteps.

[GuildJenn]

I would allow my son to go and decide for himself - at 14 or so. Perhaps as young as 12.

Earlier than that, no, I would not, if this church is teaching things that are directly against your beliefs (and frankly the homophobic bits really make me wonder what all the messages are).

I experienced two periods of devotion to strong religious groups on the part of my family growing up, and both were confusing and upsetting and my therapist has made good money from them. There were other things going on in my family but it was precisely the different messages that made it so weird - and secret, in that my grandfather believed my parents were going to hell and vice versa, and my loyalties got pretty torn.

Also, if you are not attending yourself, you do not know what messages your child has gotten even if you would be able to unteach/counter them.

Just my opinion, but seriously - it's been a therapy issue for me.

[RubyWild]

I'd say a 2.5 year old understands a great deal and is soaking everything in.

[RubyWild]

Originally Posted by philomom

Few people that I know have permanent memories before the age of three. However, I would start to find some other activity for MIL and your child.

Toddlers' brains are rapidly developing schemas for how to understand and categorize information. If the first thing they hear about sexuality is that homosexuality is a sin, they begin developing schemas for sexuality and sin based on these early experiences. Child Development research indicates that foster children exposed to racism at an early age and then removed from that home were highly likely to be racist in the future. Subsequent research found the same results for sexism, empathy, and self-confidence. It would follow then that they would develop schemas for homophobia and thus be more prone to thinking that way in the future.

[mommato5]

At this age he isn't really paying attention to the sermon! I would let him go.

[AbbieB]

I would not allow my young child to attend any church regularly that was not one that DH or I attended.

Attending church is part of teaching values and I want my child to learn my values, not my MIL's, FIL's or my parent's values (let alone a minister teaching hate!)

I would be willing to let my child attend for a special occasion, Easter Sunday, Christmas, that sort of thing, but not on a regular basis.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by liberal_chick

I know, when I was young at least, children's church never talked about things like that. It was all the positive stuff.

Years ago, I let my boys go to church with some of their friends. They were in separate classrooms because of age. DS1's class was all positive, AFAIK. DS2 came home very upset, and asked for weeks if he was going to go to the "fire place." He had frequent nightmares and refused to set foot in a church for almost 2 years.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by alegna

No way I'd let my child be regularly exposed to that.


-Angela

:

[siobhang]

Ever hear the phrase " get 'em while they are young?" It is all about indoctrination, and it is why most families on MDC are hard core about our kids avoiding commercials. Because kids do not have the capacity to tell the difference btw a commercial and a story before age 7. They are completely vulnerable to indoctrination because of their developing brains.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by siobhang

Because kids do not have the capacity to tell the difference btw a commercial and a story before age 7. They are completely vulnerable to indoctrination because of their developing brains.

Did you mean to say something different? Because that doesn't really make sense to me.

And while we're on the subject, do you read fictitious stories to your children?

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

Did you mean to say something different? Because that doesn't really make sense to me.

And while we're on the subject, do you read fictitious stories to your children?

Sorry, what I meant is that when you ask children about the television they watch, they cannot tell the difference btw what is a story/tv show and a commercial to get them to buy something. They don't have the ability to sense the motive or see that the purpose of the commercial is to encourage them to buy something (not even going to touch product placement which blurs the lines for adults).

Research shows that children under the age of eight are unable to critically comprehend televised advertising messages and are prone to accept advertiser messages as truthful, accurate and unbiased.

http://www.apa.org/releases/childrenads.html

If we are concerned about our children's values being influenced by public media and commercials, why would we not have the same concern about them being exposed to religious teachings not in keeping with our family's?

Yes, I do read fictional stories to my kids. but I also expect them to take them at face value. My kids are very young still - they do not have the ability yet to compare and contrast two versions purported to be "true", especially when those are given to them by authority figures.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

Did you mean to say something different? Because that doesn't really make sense to me.

To me it reads like when they are watching TV, they can't tell the difference between teh story and the commercials. So someone is telling them something in order to get them to buy a product and they don't recognize that the information comes with that intent.

In other words they are innocent, they have no filters.

And while we're on the subject, do you read fictitious stories to your children?

Not damaging fiction. Which is what this church is teaching.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by thismama

In other words they are innocent, they have no filters.

yes, this is it exactly.

Not damaging fiction. Which is what this church is teaching.

I don't let my kids read stuff they aren't emotionally or psychologically ready for. I remember a friend of mine bragging that her 7 year old daughter read The Color Purple, and how clever she was. Now, her daughter is clever, but frankly the Color Purple is a very inappropriate book for a 7 year old, not in the least that it deals with some extremely disturbing topics (it disturbed me and I was in my 20s when I read it) that I hope to hell a 7 year old would not have to face.

I don't believe in sheltering kids for their entire lives, but there are appropriate times to introduce certain concepts - such as alternative views of religion and ethics, etc. And those times are well beyond the preschool years, in my opinion.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by thismama

Not damaging fiction. Which is what this church is teaching.

I was comparing fictitious stories to commercials, not to churches.

It was a tangent. Sorry.

Originally Posted by siobhang

If we are concerned about our children's values being influenced by public media and commercials, why would we not have the same concern about them being exposed to religious teachings not in keeping with our family's?

I guess I see it differently because I'm an atheist and don't follow any religious teachings. I don't, however, prevent my children from learning about religious traditions. Because of the way they've been raised, they question all of it.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

I guess I see it differently because I'm an atheist and don't follow any religious teachings. I don't, however, prevent my children from learning about religious traditions. Because of the way they've been raised, they question all of it.

Actually, I am an atheist too, raising my kids in a very religious area - mainly conservative protestant. We belong to a UU church which teaches a broad religious tradition - sermons and RE classes discuss the teachings of Jesus, Mohamed, Gandhi, Buddha, as well as secular humanists, poets and philosophers, etc etc..

There are certain core values that the church teaches, including respect, tolerance, equality, and love for all (and yes, I know there are many churches which teach these values). And the UU church absolutely lets children question all beliefs - part of our creed is an independent path to spirituality.

However, our church does NOT believe in sin, guilt, evil as a concrete thing (vs an abstract thought) nor shame. There is NO belief of being saved, going to Hell or heaven, or any kind of concept of "good people" vs "bad people".

Our church doesn't even address these concepts as a comparative discussion at this age - certainly not to the preschool age group, and not even to the older kids - teenagers definitely get into these discussions.

I do not want my children believing there is a physical place called Heaven that they can only get into if the believe or do x and y. I do not want my children believing in Hell as a punishment for their misdeeds. These are very powerful concepts and can be planted in very fertile minds. Kids are pretty concrete at this age - if you tell them about heaven, even as a metaphor, they will believe it has a street address and that they can go visit whenever they wish.

I think the key issue here is age. It isn't about whether it is right or appropriate to teach kids about these concepts at all - I think it IS absolutely right for kids to fully understand differing belief systems, even if they/we don't agree with them

The issue is what is the right age to do it at. I personally believe that 2 1/2 is far too young - I think 6 is too young. 10 makes more sense to me, in my opinion.

Now, I understand there are many people on MDC with a variety of beliefs and I am not knocking them. I am sure there are parents who do believe in Heaven and Hell and sin and so forth and are very conscientiously teaching their kids about these things. And more power to them.

Those beliefs are not what my husband and I want to teach our children, and we will avoid all teaching of those concepts to our kids at THIS age - when they are unable to understand that there may be differing belief systems that actually contradict each other.

My 2 cents

Siobhan

[bandgeek]

Sorry, there's so many replies now, I just can't reply individually to the ones I want to, so I'll just clarify some things.

I've always intended to expose my children to many religions, even ones I don't agree with. This is the way I was raised and this is the way my mother was raised. I feel it's the best way for kids to realize they have a choice and they can think for themselves. And the fact that I married a Christian seals the deal. I can't just raise my children in an atheist household and call it good. I HAVE TO expose him to beliefs I don't agree with because my DH is also a parent in this family. It's not simply about sheltering my child from everything I don't agree with. I have to find a balance.

I realize that children are impressionable, which is exactly why I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to find a balance with this particular church. I believe my MIL would be a lot different if she'd been exposed to more than just this church or if she'd been told she had a choice. I don't think the same thing could happen to my son because he's not going to be going to only this church and he's going to know there are other options. He's young, he's impressionable, but it's a far different situation. How do you shelter your kids from the stuff you don't agree with, yet expose them to it so they can be well-rounded?

I'm still not sure what to do. I was 6 when I started to go to church with friends and family members and even at that age, I was forming opinions about what I was told in those churches. I imagine I would have had opinions at an even earlier age. I don't know though, so I can't say. That's why it's so confusing for me.

[Cherry Alive]

I would not be happy with a relative or friend taking my kid to a church that preaches intolerence during it's sermons (ex- gay bashing). I think that kind of thing can negatively impact a child--even at an early age. If I had any feeling that was going on, I'd go with the child or wait to send him/her on such trips until he/she was older.

My parents let me go to church alone with my Mormon grandparents a few times a year. It was great when I was younger, and just did Sunday school. However as I grew older (3-13) the more adult sermons created a lot of confusion and shame about my family. I thought there was something wrong with us that we didn't go and was scared we'd all burn in hell. My grandparents didn't help this either. They said lots of stuff they knew would go back to my parents to pressure them into going back to church. So, while I plan to expose my kids to lots of different religions, I'm going to make sure I'm there with them so we can talk about things in private at later points in case stuff gets said that is pushy or doesn't mesh with our family's philosophies.

Edit: BTW, there are many types of Christianity, and quite a few do not preach intolerence (ex - Unitarians). Sometimes it comes down to the individual church and the preacher's beliefs.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by GooeyRN

I wouldn't allow my child to attend a service if I did not share in the beliefs. I wouldn't want to worry about unteaching. I would find a new activity for them to do together, unless you don't mind a lot of unteaching.