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Vent/rant/WWYD - bullying at preschool - Page 2

post #21 of 60
I think your expectations of what can and can't be managed in a school classroom are a bit unrealistic.

Children's behavior CANNOT be controlled 100 percent of the time. Do you "control" all aspects of your children's behavior all the time?

That being said, it sounds like the nursery school needs better and more clear policies about what to do with disruptive and antagonistic behavior. Unfortunately, IME, profit-driven preschools and schools will often do what's best for them short term (try to hang on to the tuition) vs. what would be better in the longer term. And frankly, *no* administration/bureaucracy will move from the status quo without demand.

I think a lot of time parents tend to focus on the Evil Child vs. Their Total Angel, which divides group parental collaboration (why should I care? My kid's not having a problem, maybe YOUR kid is asking for it!). Most people could get behind a policy that lays down clear expectations for behavior and standard consequences (SN or not). That seems to be the better way of handling it, particularly in a preschool situation, where parents can have a lot of $$ clout if they band together. If you approach it systematically you can also avoid the personal-punitive of going after an individual kid (which should make you uncomfortable, as it won't help in the future and may be inaccurate).

I've always felt that preschool/ECE teachers can have a huge impact on helping kids learn how to deal with bullying, and being the first guiding influences in the education system of preventing kids from becoming bullies. Unfortunately, they're also some of the lowest paid folks, there can be high turnover, and in most states there's no training requirement for ECE folks (though thank goodness in K-12 there's at least an acknowledgement of a need for those programs!). That too is something that parents have to band together to try and impact from a systems point of view.

To a large degree, I think bullying is ignored because parents don't really want to put in the work to actually change things, especially when their kid is only going to be in the program for a year or so and so they won't reap a benefit from it. Administrators can ignore it because they know the parents won't pull their kids or group together to demand change. And ECE folks sometimes are not welcome at bullying seminars because some folks in the education system don't see them as 'real' colleagues.

Before I had kids, I actually would do mini-seminars for parents about bullying, ect. You'd be amazed at how little they wanted to do with it. The Not-MY-angel-never! syndrome. But if their kid told them that someone else hit them, I'd get a screaming phone call for 45 minutes, until we straightened things out. I'm not surprised that sometimes teacher just find it hard to dredge up the energy. However, it's something that needs to be done, if you're going to be an ethical teacher (IMO), and something best done with the support and participation and sometimes the driving of the parents.
post #22 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post
I'm not sure why bullying and special needs are being conflated in this thread.
Because the kids that have been "bullying" the OP's children have been SN kids.

It sounds like the school just hasn't got much experience or help in working w/ SN kids.

I don't really know what to say. As a parent of a SN child, I am horrified when he is playing (in his mind) and hurts someone. I also have a neuro-typical child and when she gets hurt, I try to be understanding. What if the kid that hurt her is SN likes her brother? Not every kid is perfect all the time.

Obviously, if your child is being hurt he or she has every right NOT to be hurt. We all do!

If the kids doing the hurting are SN, then the school needs to step it up a notch and deal with it appropriately.
post #23 of 60
The thing with a lot of special needs kids is that they act out the most when they are overwhelmed - by their surroundings, by the other kids, by the activity going on around them, by any number of things!

I have two NT girls and a wonderful ASC boy in the middle. He did great in preschool, fantastic in kindergarten - and just when I was questioning whether there really was a problem or not - first grade hit. He was in a classroom with two other high-needs boys (I'm saying high-needs, because I am not privy to whether or not they are actually special needs) and he started mimicing the behaviour of one of the other boys. You would not have believed how shocked I was when I was called to the school one day because my sweet boy threw a chair. Within two weeks I was called to the school six times - twice in one day. It was horrible, for me, for his teacher, for his fellow students, and for him. The typical "time out" strategy was doing nothing more than agitating him more, because he knew he was being punished, but he just couldn't get a handle on how to control himself so he wouldn't be punished. Honestly, that month was pretty much the hardest month of my whole life - and that was *after* my husband walked out on me and my three kids...BUT, working with his teacher, the principal, and school guidance counseler we made the decision to move him to another classroom and he thrived. The whole mood of the class was different. In no way do I blame the other boys for my son's behaviour, but by taking him out of the classroom that was completely overwhelming him, his behaviour totally changed and he did not have a single problem the rest of the year. And here we are, almost done with second grade, and still doing wonderfully!

I do have to say that the report you got about the kindergarten your kids will attend sounds too good to be true, to me. I find it very hard to believe that there are that many special needs children and that they *each* have their own personal aid. Maybe things are just very different where you are though...

And lastly, you said this:

Quote:
I cannot imagine what having a child like this is like - there but for the grace of G*d go I and all that.
I *know* you didn't mean any offense by this, but I really wish you would rethink your words - honestly, that phrase bugs the crap out of me (and I am a Christian), it makes it seem like you think that those of us with special needs children are falling outside the grace of God, and I *know* you didn't mean it that way...That's just my own personal pet peeve though...
post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzepplon View Post
I would pull my child in a heartbeat.

Sorry, but inclusion does not mean putting my kids in harm's way.:
I feel exactly the same way.
post #25 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzepplon
I would pull my child in a heartbeat. :

Sorry, but inclusion does not mean putting my kids in harm's way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullfrog View Post
I feel exactly the same way.

Ok, so, what do we do? We should remove our SN kids so yours are ok? What does that tell our SN kids who are trying to learn how to function in society? That they're not good enough? That they're freaks?

Whether you meant it or not, that is totally how it comes across to me as a SN parent.

None of us WANT our kids to hurt others. Our kids need to learn how to adapt and work with society. We have to help them understand in whatever way they can. The educators they have need to do the same.

Removing SN kids from the equation protects your kids, sure. But what does it do for mine?
post #26 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzepplon View Post
I would pull my child in a heartbeat.

Sorry, but inclusion does not mean putting my kids in harm's way.:
i agree with this. to the OP... I am really worried about DD going to preschool next year. i think you have gone out of your way to be understanding and that the school just doesn't have the proper system in place to handle the inclusion properly. Inclusion should never put the welfare of another child at risk, physically or emotionally. Children are not gunea pigs and should not be subject to abuse so another child can learn how to behave. Of course, incidents are going to happen... but repeated episodes involving the same children isn't acceptable.

I agree that we hand over certain control over our children when we leave them in care of others. But those taking care of them owe the children (and us) to provide them with a safe, loving place to learn and grow together.
post #27 of 60
Wow, Mama. That is a really hard situation. I think you handled the first situation with N beautifully, and to end-up making family friends to boot? Awesome.

My thoughts on the children who are exhibiting these behaviors - it seems to me they really need more than just one teacher in the classroom of many children. If they do "have a diagnosis", and they are a part of a special needs program, it is clear to me the school/program are not meeting the children's needs adequately. Some PPs have mentioned it certainly is difficult to maintain control 100% of the time with just a couple kids, let alone a classroom full including some special needs children. However, the situations outlined by the OP is one of predictable aggressive behavior, which is being addressed within the paradigm of some sort of social/emotional diagnosis. The incidents described cannot be written off as an oversight due to a population of children being watched over by one person. The school is failing all the children miserably by not providing the resources clearly needed by the special needs children (i.e. one-on-one), and are not providing the rest of the classroom with basic safety.

I hope your school addresses this adequately SOON. It is simply unacceptable.
post #28 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justthatgirl View Post
Ok, so, what do we do? We should remove our SN kids so yours are ok? What does that tell our SN kids who are trying to learn how to function in society? That they're not good enough? That they're freaks?

Whether you meant it or not, that is totally how it comes across to me as a SN parent.

None of us WANT our kids to hurt others. Our kids need to learn how to adapt and work with society. We have to help them understand in whatever way they can. The educators they have need to do the same.

Removing SN kids from the equation protects your kids, sure. But what does it do for mine?
She isn't talking about all situations, just this one. Im sure that you would agree that if your child was repeatedly abusing another child in school that parent would be justified in removing their child from the school. And vice versa.. what if your child was being repeatedly targeted by another child? What would it teach your child to disregard their fear and allow them to be repeatedly sbjected to abuse? that they have to take it so the other child can "learn"?

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that inclusion is wrong. I don't think that is the point of this thread at all. It is that when there are repeated incidents of abuse from one child to another that something should be done. Period. Regardless of whether the child is special needs or not.
post #29 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justthatgirl View Post
Ok, so, what do we do? We should remove our SN kids so yours are ok? What does that tell our SN kids who are trying to learn how to function in society? That they're not good enough? That they're freaks?
It's not about the children who are having the issues. It's about the way the adults are dealing with the children who are having the issues. One lesson to be learned in order function is society is that a person doesn't get to hit three people before an intervention.

I'm trying hard to see both sides of this but I can't imagine why a parent whose child is assaulting children and teachers on a daily basis thinks it's rude for other parents to complain about how it's being handled. Obviously, this inclusion isn't working for the children who are hurting other children.
post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarinet View Post
It's not about the children who are having the issues. It's about the way the adults are dealing with the children who are having the issues. One lesson to be learned in order function is society is that a person doesn't get to hit three people before an intervention.

I'm trying hard to see both sides of this but I can't imagine why a parent whose child is assaulting children and teachers on a daily basis thinks it's rude for other parents to complain about how it's being handled. Obviously, this inclusion isn't working for the children who are hurting other children.
yes. thank you for saying that. exactly what i was trying to say, but couldn't.
post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Orchid View Post
She isn't talking about all situations, just this one. Im sure that you would agree that if your child was repeatedly abusing another child in school that parent would be justified in removing their child from the school. And vice versa.. what if your child was being repeatedly targeted by another child? What would it teach your child to disregard their fear and allow them to be repeatedly sbjected to abuse? that they have to take it so the other child can "learn"?

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that inclusion is wrong. I don't think that is the point of this thread at all. It is that when there are repeated incidents of abuse from one child to another that something should be done. Period. Regardless of whether the child is special needs or not.

It came across to me that the idea is that inclusion is just not helpful to a neuro-typical kid. It may not be, but guess what? It's gonna HAVE to be when they become adults and are working together or interacting with various ppl on a daily basis.

NO, no child should be subjected to getting hurt! I'm not saying that. My sn son was subjected to abuse at his last school. I took him out because he was being mistreated by the freaking administration. He was repeatedly targeted by THEM.

If a parent wants to remove their child, that their prerogative. But for ppl to make a generalization about the whole thing is just stupid. These kids have SN. Therefore they need Special Help. The teachers need aides that will do something to HELP these SN kids. If a SN kid is a repeat offender on a particular issue, then they need to be removed from the classroom or whatever the school deems necessary. This particular school seems to not be on the ball as far as that goes.

I'm not saying to leave these kids in the class and let them run amok. CLEARLY they need help beyond what most other kids need. But they also need to learn that actions have consequences.

I have a problem with ppl making generalizations about kids like mine. We're not asking for extra leniency. We want something to be done so they can continue learning how to act socially and what is acceptable. Additionally, NONE of us want our kids to be beating up others. You can't imagine how horrifying that is for us. Like, "OMG. I have THAT KID. The one nobody likes."
post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarinet View Post
It's not about the children who are having the issues. It's about the way the adults are dealing with the children who are having the issues. One lesson to be learned in order function is society is that a person doesn't get to hit three people before an intervention.

I'm trying hard to see both sides of this but I can't imagine why a parent whose child is assaulting children and teachers on a daily basis thinks it's rude for other parents to complain about how it's being handled. Obviously, this inclusion isn't working for the children who are hurting other children.
I don't think you CAN see both sides of the issue unless you have kids that are on both sides.

I DO think it's rude because the way my child is being educated is apparently not acceptable to some posters.

The OP has every right to be upset with the way the administration is handling this. I would be, too.

My issue is that other posters have deemed it acceptable to say inclusion isn't working or whatever.

In THIS instance, no, it's not. But it's been made to sound like inclusion for everyone is unacceptable.
post #33 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarinet View Post
It's not about the children who are having the issues. It's about the way the adults are dealing with the children who are having the issues. One lesson to be learned in order function is society is that a person doesn't get to hit three people before an intervention.

I'm trying hard to see both sides of this but I can't imagine why a parent whose child is assaulting children and teachers on a daily basis thinks it's rude for other parents to complain about how it's being handled. Obviously, this inclusion isn't working for the children who are hurting other children.
The OP assumes that it was 3 hits and a TO, but really (based on the info posted) it was a 3rd offense that was a hit that was answered with a TO. IMO, the first rough handling needs to be dealt with immediately, but I don't think we can conclude from the info provided that 3 hits occured.

I just re-read the original post. Is the actual ratio in this classroom 16:1? If it is, lots of stuff with a class full of typical kids is going to go down, never mind if there are a bunch of rambunctious boys.

I didn't read from the original post that there was one child assaulting children and teachers daily. What I read is that the OP's children come home and tell how their day was, and that it includes some, frankly, typical preschool behaviour (really, typical children with no issues NEVER throw sand, or lose their temper, or kick or hit?). And, I read a vent from an overwhelmed teacher about her cumulative experience over the course of a year. There is no doubt that this has been an extraordinary year for this teacher, as this many kids with extra needs must be a statistical blip.

The issue is the handling by the school of the very unusual circumstances of this many kids with extra needs. Maybe that could be the focus, rather than the anti-inclusion stuff that's very alienating for the moms with SN kids.
post #34 of 60
Yes, well, unfortunately even if you barred all SN kids from all schools...you'd still have to deal with bullying.

Because MOST children who engage in bullying behaviors are NOT SN kids. If anything, it's SN kids who are most likely to be the target, especially of non-physical bullying.

This is an example of what I'm talking about, when I say that the vast majority of time in regards to bullying people want the easy way out. Easy to shove the problem off on 'inclusion', but the SN status of the child involved is largely irrelevant. Very easy to be distracted by.

The very fact that we've been siderailed from bullying policy to special needs inclusion is very glaringly instructive to me. :/
post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post
The issue is the handling by the school of the very unusual circumstances of this many kids with extra needs. Maybe that could be the focus, rather than the anti-inclusion stuff that's very alienating for the moms with SN kids.
Thank you.
post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justthatgirl View Post

I have a problem with ppl making generalizations about kids like mine. We're not asking for extra leniency. We want something to be done so they can continue learning how to act socially and what is acceptable. Additionally, NONE of us want our kids to be beating up others. You can't imagine how horrifying that is for us. Like, "OMG. I have THAT KID. The one nobody likes."

Ditto everything else JTG said, too. I desperately want my son to learn the strategies he needs to be successful and thriving and a welcome asset to his community.

I wonder what the parents of these boys are feeling? I wonder if they're in the loop, really, about what's going on. It is very confusing to be parenting a child with SN, when you don't know what's necessarily development, what might be temperament, what might be reactivity to stimuli, and what might be strictly related to a SN. I'm sure those parents want the very best for their kids, too.
post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
Yes, well, unfortunately even if you barred all SN kids from all schools...you'd still have to deal with bullying.

Because MOST children who engage in bullying behaviors are NOT SN kids. If anything, it's SN kids who are most likely to be the target, especially of non-physical bullying.
I can illustrate by way of example. My son has SPD and certain stimuli can prompt certain, predictable responses.

For instance, personal space. When he was three, if he was on the blue square on the carpet, and another child's toe touched it, he might:
-shove them off;
-anxiously vocalize while his body went rigid;
-cry inconsolably.

That first one sure looks like bullying, hey?

One of the first things we did, as we stumbled our way through figuring out what was up (since he wasn't born with a label), was to actively discourage any form of rough physical contact with other kids (who knew high fives are another way to get some of that excess energy out?). Interestingly, this came at a real cost to my son as the actual act of shoving relieved the tension, whereas taking it on internally and emotionally was hard. We had to give him substitute outlets for that energy, which was hard with a three year old with minor fine and gross motor delays. For absolute clarity, I'm not suggesting that he should have been allowed to continue hard high fives or any other hurting behaviours. But figuring out strategies that work for individual children is hard work and there might very well be some mistakes and growing pains along the way.
post #38 of 60
Been there, done that - with dd2 in toddler group four years ago. I really learned a LOT from that situation, and am now actually thankful for the experience.

Dd2 was two; we attended a one morning a week mom/toddler group that was set up like preschool - sign in, free play inside with large and small manipulatives, water table, books, puppets, dolls, play kitchen, playdough, etc., circle, snack, outdoor play.

There were 15(?) two year olds, 15 moms, 1 teacher. Great, great program. There was one little boy (we'll call him C) who would have physical outbursts against the other kids with no known reason. He seemed to focus on my dd2. I can understand if one child has a ball and the other wants it and doesn't have the words to ask, and hits. I expect that that will happen with two year olds.

My child is no angel. She makes mistakes. I do not think that she never was in the wrong in toddler group situations; all kids are learning how to interact fairly and kindly.

However, she got the receiving end of a fair amount of physical aggression from C at toddler group. I never saw her do anything preceding it, nor did anyone who was around. She would be sitting playing blocks; C would walk over and shove her, then walk away. My child in tears, hurt feelings if not hurt physically, and no idea why it happened. This happened week after week. C's mom tried her best to shadow him but it was hard to stop every impulse. The teacher wanted us to focus on the hurt child, and give no attention to the child who was being aggressive when the hurt occured. Tough as it was, we all did this for months. It didn't seem to help the situation.

I was furious - my kid was hurt and scared and didn't want to go to toddler group anymore. She made a growling noise whenever C walked into the room; he'd hurt her so many times that she expected it. We should stop going just to be safe? They should get to stay? I was truly angry and upset and thought C's mom should take him out and try again next year when he was older and more able to manage himself. I was trying to decide between going to her to ask her to stop going, or going to the teacher to ask that they have him stop going. Neither option felt great to me, but it seemed really awful that my kid was being physically attacked each week. I do know that it was just as awful if not more so for C's mom - that her child was the one doing this. She was a calm mom who seemed to be doing her very best, doing all she could to monitor the situation.

It all came to a head when C walked from the small manipulatives room into the large manipulatives room (where my dd2 was playing), shoved her down to the ground, kicked her IN THE HEAD, and walked away. My chest is getting tight just remembering that day. : They were TWO YEAR OLDS. It was so sad for all concerned. But when that happened, I just snapped. C's mom was in parent ed (for 20 minutes each week, half the moms would be in an adjoining room with the teacher while the other half of the moms watched all the kids - you asked another mom to watch your child specifically). I picked C up (a bit roughly I'll admit) and stomped into the hall with him, putting him down in the doorway of the room where his mom and the teacher were in parent ed. I firmly told him "DO NOT HIT OR KICK HER EVER AGAIN!" and walked away.

I know the GD moms will flame me, but it had been many months of my kid being hurt, over and over. We'd tried other techniques; they didn't help.

He never hit or kicked her again. However, the next week, he started in on other kids, two boys in particular. It continued to be a problem for the last months of toddler group.

I then learn that C's mom has signed him up to be in the same preschool that my family uses (in a town different than the one where both C and I live, and a different town than toddler group). There are at least 20 preschools within a ten mile radius of our town, and she picks mine. I had been looking forward to not having to shadow my kid to keep her safe.

Guess what! C's mom and I decided to carpool. C and my dd2 became friends. They had no issues at all in preschool. She even asked to play at his house after carpool sometimes. They ended up going to the same alternative public kindergarten!

I learned so much; my dd2 learned so much. It was hard but it was worth it in the end.

Sorry this was such a novel...
post #39 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I think your expectations of what can and can't be managed in a school classroom are a bit unrealistic.

Children's behavior CANNOT be controlled 100 percent of the time. Do you "control" all aspects of your children's behavior all the time?
Oh I know this believe me. But my children have never hurt another child intentionally. They went to nursery school all last year and there were 1 or 2 incidents of minor hitting or whatnot all year (3 year-olds), and certainly no perpetual bullies. I think our society does A LOT of "kids will be kids" and "these things happen" about bullying, which I think is really missing a wonderful opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place much less change it once it does. Our society is pretty violent and we accept a significant amount of violence between children (and emotional abuse) as "part of growing up." That makes me both very sad and very frustrated.

I just wanted to say, without responding point by point, that I really appreciated your post and agree with almost all of it. You made some really great points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten
Guess what! C's mom and I decided to carpool. C and my dd2 became friends. They had no issues at all in preschool. She even asked to play at his house after carpool sometimes. They ended up going to the same alternative public kindergarten!
Sounds like our experience with N. It was very interesting to me also that after HOURS of talking about N, they finally became friends on their own and now he doesn't act up anymore with them and not as much in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally
I wonder what the parents of these boys are feeling? I wonder if they're in the loop, really, about what's going on.
Oh they're in the loop. I had a whole post typed out but just I guess all that matters is yes, they're very in the loop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally
For absolute clarity, I'm not suggesting that he should have been allowed to continue hard high fives or any other hurting behaviours. But figuring out strategies that work for individual children is hard work and there might very well be some mistakes and growing pains along the way.
OK. I hear you. But do you hear me? They are focused on their child and trying to find a working system. I am focused on my child and making sure they are safe. I have no doubt that it is hard and there are "growing pains", but it is not acceptable for my child to be physically assaulted while T's parents work out the kinks with his program. This is the disconnect for me. It's like, I know they see there's an issue and that "it's hard" and "it's a slow process" but hellllooooo... my kid has been terrorized in school and nothing is changing. It's May. School ends in now 1 day. Whatever they're doing (the school at least) is not working, and they need to get their acts together for next year to make sure they can better support the children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justthatgirl
I have a problem with ppl making generalizations about kids like mine. We're not asking for extra leniency. We want something to be done so they can continue learning how to act socially and what is acceptable. Additionally, NONE of us want our kids to be beating up others. You can't imagine how horrifying that is for us. Like, "OMG. I have THAT KID. The one nobody likes."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild
Yes, well, unfortunately even if you barred all SN kids from all schools...you'd still have to deal with bullying.// This is an example of what I'm talking about, when I say that the vast majority of time in regards to bullying people want the easy way out. Easy to shove the problem off on 'inclusion', but the SN status of the child involved is largely irrelevant. Very easy to be distracted by.
What I've been saying is that the school is totally not set up to handle kids like this and are doing a piss poor job of it as a result. I also followed-up and said how thrilled I was after kindergarten orientation that they have a program in place that seems to be working for special ed kids being included in kindergarten classes. I'm sorry if you're reading something in my posts that I just flat out don't believe... it sounds like you want to think I am against special needs kids or something, which I've never said nor do I believe implied, as I've come right out and said I think the issue is the school's sucky handling of the situation.

The situation with T is not just about bullying but is about having a child with behavioral issues that cannot be accomodated in a regular preschool setup. Teachers used to handling 15 or 18 easy peasies are now being asked to take on 20% of their classroom with serious mental and behavioral problems, but with no additional training or support or decrease in class size. Inclusion is great, but it's not just about throwing a special needs kid into the deep end of the pool and saying Woo Hoo look at us, we're inclusive. I agree 100% with everyone who said not only does this hurt kids like mine but it hurts that child who is missing out on vital opportunties at what must be a critical time to learn social skills.

Not only is the special needs discussion not irrelevant, but it is absolutely central to the issue.... the cause of this problem is that the school needs to change to accomodate these kids' specific issues and not just put their heads in the sand and think a time out or gold star or whatever is going to do the trick, for all the kids' benefit.
post #40 of 60
Peri, I wasn't speaking of the specifics of the original situation. I agree that situationally, SN is one of the complexities that have to be considered for the presenting situation.

What I find irritating/annoying is the fact that there has been sidetracking into anti-integration stuff in generalities. And sadly, that's very easy to do. Instead of addressing the real problem (the way the school is handling discipline and making sure that it's the safest environment for everyone), it seems to me that some people are focusing on the integration issue.

Integration does NOT mean lack of discipline and process. And that's the problem here, truly. Not whether there are SN kids in the classroom or not.

It just seems to me that some folks are extrapolating 'At this school, they have difficulties keeping everyone safe in a situation with multiple kids with SNs and not being able to set proper boundaries around children who harm others' to 'You better watch out if you've got SN kids in the class, they'll probably attack your child and you won't be able to do anything about it.' I really hope that I'm misreading some of the general comments. But I don't think so, I've heard enough of that sort of sentiment to know that people are particularly quick to leap to that conclusion. Which makes it really hard to come up with a solution that will serve everyone--because the SN issue is still a side issue.

It seems to me that the primary issue is how the school handles physical attacks or (hopefully this would fall into the same category) emotional ones. Those things have to be in place for all children. A SN kid who acts out might have more supports (an aide, less time in the classroom with others, more support in stressful situation) but it still doesn't change the fact that if you have a child that is harming other children then the school MUST have a policy in place for how much is too much and when. It doesn't have to be in a punitive sense (I have seen children released from care in the preschools and daycares I've worked with, and most of the time it was done with great compassion and the parents agreed, even if they were sad), but there has to be something in place regardless of status.

It doesn't seem like this school has a concise policy, at least not one that they're following. IME, parents of special needs children often respect those boundaries even more than most parents, because it also protects their children from being attacked or bullied and having to deal with the "what do you expect, your kid's a weirdo and they attract that" mentality that is out there.
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