Now, mamas (or dads!) some advice, please?

[3lilmonsters]

I think I'm going to xpost this in parents as partners.

I don't really know where to start. This is about my dcs and my ex, and the way they interact. I think I posted before about how when they come home from his house they have so many issues that they don't normally have. They're much more rude, sassy, disrespectful, they yell at each other (and sometimes me), they are physical with each other....The rules there are alot different, but I try to stay out of it as much as I can. Only when its stuff like them eating cheez-its for dinner with oreos for dessert and watching 20 hours straight of cartoon network do I step in, and then I take it up discreetly with him.

It's the dynamics between ds#1 and my x that's the biggest worry to me. They've always clashed. Badly. He feels as though ds is out to get him, that he operates with the sole purpose of pushing his buttons. I realize that he is 7, and that some days I'm sure that's his mission, but my x has felt this way since ds was 2. EVERYTHING turns into a power struggle. It would take much too long to give you a full idea of the sheer magnitude of some of their past power struggles.

Once, a few months ago, he even threatened to spank ds. According to dd his exact phrase was "so hard that you won't be able to sit down for a week". For what? Well, because he likes to sleep late. That particular morning it was about 10 when ds woke him up because they wanted him to get up and make breakfast. Now, when he's sleeping, they're safe. He's a light sleeper and they're right in the room with him watching tv. And they have food. Munchy food, but not 'breakfast', yk? I'm certain he would never actually lay a hand on ds, if for no other reason than he fears for his own physical safety should he ever harm one of my babies. But the threat alone got me quite worked up. He says he was joking (to which I replied that it wasn't a very funny joke cause it scared the pee out of the kids) and that it was no different than me telling the baby that he's so yummy I just want to bite him (it's a tickling game we play and he loves - playED. I stopped because of this incident. Though he still calls 'bite my belly mama!' sometimes).

So, anyways, what prompted me to ask for advice was something that happened today. I called him this morning to ask what time he'd be bringing them home and explained that I had to take my grandmother to do errands. He told me he'd be here at 11:00, and I asked him again before we got off the phone, just to be sure. Well, I got home at about 10:45 or 10:50 and he was already here, looking quite ticked off. He'd actually arrived just before 10:30 and made a point to let the kids know that I was late (which I wasn't). Not only did he look ticked off, but ds#1 and dd looked miserable as well. Ds came up to me and told me that he was told he could never again play Diablo (a game that I don't like him to play anyways because I think it's too violent for them) at daddy's house because he'd kicked ds#2 while swinging. He said that ds#2 was getting too close so he yelled for him to get out of the way and started trying to stop, but couldn't in time and kicked him. Ds#2 was fine, I guess he cried a little, but was unaffected by it by the time I got there. ds#1 said that his dad yelled at him and said that he didn't even try to stop, that he just kept swinging "like it was the happiest day of (his) life".

I didn't say anything about it, except to ask ds if it was an accident, if ds#2 was ok, and if he himself was ok because I'm sure it was unsettling to kick his little brother like that. Then I did comment on the fact that he then turned to his dad and started being rude and disrespectful to him (his dad was extremely rude and disrespectful back) and I told ds#1 that it was not ok for him to speak to anyone like that. I went to see dd and she was sitting by herself sulking and I asked her what was wrong. She told me that daddy was in a crabby mood all morning and kept yelling at ds, then after daddy punished ds with no Diablo that put ds in a crabby mood and daddy in a worse crabby mood and she was tired of listening to daddy yelling at and fighting with ds and so now she was in a crabby mood.

When the kids weren't around I mentioned casually to their dad that dd was upset and he immediately blamed it on ds. He said "well that's because ds is being a flaming jerk to her this morning". That REALLY bothered me. But I just said, "actually, she said shes' upset with you", though maybe I shouldn't have said anything. I dunno, if it was me, I'd want to know she was upset with me so I could work it out with her, yk? Anyways, all he said was "ya, she's upset with me because ds's upset with me and taking it out on her so she's taking it out on me".

It seems to me that he blames so much on ds. He definately favors dd and ds knows that. Though last night ds told me that he was yelling at dd because she wasn't going to sleep and wanted to talk to me when I called to say goodnight to ds. So she gets in trouble too sometimes, but it's rare.

I don't know what I'm asking. I just see my kids caught in an unhealthy relationship, but it's not abusive so I'm not sure where the line is, yk? Is there anything I can do to help it? Improve their situation at all? Their dad didn't originally want them to even come to his house. He said he'd rather just visit them here. But I stupidly pushed for it, thinking that they should be as at home in his house as they are here. I thought it was important that they maintain a close relationship, but nothing good is coming from it. Once, I mentioned that the situation wasn't working well for me and that I'd like to talk to him about it and he jumped at the chance to recommend that he come here to see them instead because it was too much of a hassle anyways to 'pack up their stuff and cart them back and forth'. He said it was a waste of time and energy. So he did try coming here, but decided that it wasn't convenient, I think he was just bored. He spends most of his time while they're at his house on the computer and he couldn't here. For me and the kids, though, it worked pretty well. Except for the fact that when I got home from class at 8:30 they were just sitting down to eat dinner and didn't get to bed until 10 (I was EXHAUSTED the next day!). But their behavior was great. They didn't have the problems they normally do when they come home. Normally they have their spats, but they are violent towards one another when they get back from his house. Kicking, hitting, bitting, pushing...anyways, we didn't have that.

I'm just at a loss. The only thing that I *know* is that I can't handle this for much longer.

[oandc'smom]

It sounds like you are in a really tough situation. You say that your x is not abusive...well, he may not be physically abusive, but emotional abuse can be much more detrimental than physical abuse. (Also much harder to prove, as there are no physical marks/scars.)

Your post makes it sound like he is also somewhat neglectful (I get on the computer too, but I am pretty much with my kids 24/7.) If I was in a divorce situation, and I was not the primary caretaker, I think I would try very hard to be with my kids, and not constantly doing my normal stuff when I was with them.

My only suggestion is to see if he would be willing to take a parenting course, perhaps even with you, so that you both could be on the same page in terms of what your expectations/desires are, for your kids....

If not to take a course, there are some great parenting books...would he be willing to read any of them?

Good luck.

maury

[3lilmonsters]

It was actually recommended by our therapist way back when we split up that we do a parenting class together. We (I) looked into it, but there was no way I could afford it and their dad said he would go by himself...when he had a chance. It hasn't happened yet. He won't read parenting lit, unless it's cleverly disguised as a gaming cheats document (if anyone has any recommendations, let me know ). He actually doesn't think he needs to read any parenting things. He says he's a good parent, he knows what he's doing, and he has an adult daughter that's exceptionally smart, talented and never gave her mom and step dad any problems growing up. He says it's not an accident, that she was a very difficult child, but they worked through it and got her turned around fine (should I mention that he seems to forget that she did not live with him after she was 7 or 8 years old? or that he didn't even see her from the time she was 12 until she was 18?) He says that the issues between him and ds are only there because ds is an extremely difficult child - the most difficult one he's ever met. He says that it's because he's disrespectful and doesn't listen because that's just how he is. He's right in a way that ds is a difficult child. Ds is very smart and articulate and has not a drop of fear in him. If he has a problem with something someone says he'll speak up...even if that person is an adult. That's fine with me because I've always raised him that way. The not listening and disrespectfulness has only really been a big problem since the overnights started. It wasnt that he was perfect before, it's just that before it never seemed like an audition for super nanny : .

Even now it's only a huge issue when he's with his dad, and it's a sizable issue for a day or two when he comes home...then all's back to normal - or as normal as things get when you live with a very high energy 7yo boy : .

So, long story short - because my x does not believe the problem to be with his parenting skills, rather he believes that the problem is ds's attitude/behavior, he is not really willing to work on his parenting skills. I have tried to talk to him about setting consistant guidlines for the kids from one house to another, and while he goes along with it in theory, it doesn't happen.

[Dragonfly]

That's a really difficult situation. I'm so sorry for your and your kids.

Sometimes I think a huge part of our job as mothers with exes who are involved in our kids' lives is to mitigate the damage they do. The bottom line is that there is nothing you can do - save going through a gigantic legal battle with your ex - to change what's going on. You can point out the wrongness of his behavior to him over and over but he's unlikely to change and it's likely that he will listen to you even less than he does now.

My son's father is a very good dad in many ways. There are some things that he does very differently: shows he lets him watch, for example, foods he lets him eat, and the way he speaks to him sometimes has me gritting my teeth and biting my tongue. I learned a long time ago to let all of those things go. Now I just put my foot down on the huge battles - like when he was bringing ds home in a carseat that was only half buckled, for example. (I told him that if I ever had reason to believe it happened again, ds would not go anywhere with him, even if it meant hauling him into court, which we both avoided like the plague.) I do think he listens a little more since I only make an issue of the big, harmful things. In other words, I'd let the cheez-its for dinner and 20-hour tv marathons go and focus on the damage he's doing to his sons, when appropriate.

Primarily, though, I'd do most of the work at home. If you don't already have one, surround your children with a network of people - including positive male role models for your son - who care about them and support them unconditionally. As time goes by, my guess is that your kids will decide that their dad is a jerk and not worth their time and they'll soon be at an age where they can make the decision to not see him. In the meantime, give them as many people as possible who love them and speak frankly (not disrespectfully) about their father's shortcomings. Help them process it and let them know over and over and over that they are wonderful children and these are his issues, not theirs.

[oandc'smom]

One other thought, although I hate to harp on the therapy thing. Would your husband "spring" for therapy for your son, who is so"difficult. perhaps your husband could see it as a way to get to the bottom of his difficult behavior. would he go for the family therapy thing, since it is after all a family dynamic....?

I am not a therapist, but sometimes think there are people who have more knowledge about these things. Other than that, all you can do is be the role model you want your kids to see. And like dragonfly posted, surround your children with strong respectful, mature and caring adult male role models..if that is possible

[3lilmonsters]

Xdh would say he'll do therapy with us for ds, but his timeline and the way time actually operates are two entirely different things...It took like, 4 years for me to get him to therapy...when he was the one to insist that we go!

Now, how do you find good male role models? I have no family that I'm close to. Physically my adopted father is close, but I would not describe him as a strong, respectful, mature or caring...and I certainly wouldn't want him as a role model. I do have an 18 yo brother...but again, not really role model material. The only male friends I had when xdh and I were together were his friends, and they're all like clones (except most of them vocally support spanking). And now that I'm single, meeting males only interested in friendship is proving to be...difficult.

So where do you get your good male role models from?

[oandc'smom]

Good question.

I am still married, and while I don't believe my husband is perfect (we have our challenges) I do think he is a pretty good role model for our kids, and he is very caring.

Our families are not physically close, but when we do get together, the men are fairly well balanced, and also have aspects that I find appealing or good about them, that don't make me feel like I would want to deprive my children of that relationship.

No one is perfect, (except me, of course....just kidding) and at times I want to cringe when someone behaves in a way that I don't approve of, especially when it is either towards my children, or in front of my children. I am sure that I act rather unappealing at times, although I wish for my behavior to always be impeccable.

The best I can do is use those moments as teaching moments. When people behave poorly, explain to my children why we don't behave that way. And when people show really good behavior manners, you can also talk about how appealing that is as well.

I just had a burst of some more ideas for creating male role models in your life.

Are there any parenting groups where families might do things together? I was a member of an Attachment parenting group for a while, and dads sometimes went to these meetings as well.

Do you have any married friends, whose husbands are nice? Try seeing if you can do things with them. Or do your kids have friends from school...perhaps you can invite the whole family to do something together...come over for dinner, or go to a park or playground, have a picnic.

Perhaps sign them up for an activity, or sport {Since it is for your son, would your husband pay?)...usually there are men coching...especially boys teams. While these men may not be perfect, there is usually something good about a man who willingly coaches a bunch of kids, for free. Soccer, or basketball... also, alot of other dads usually at least go to the games. I have met some really nice men, when I have gone to my son's soccer games. Try talking to them, on the sidelines.

Also, so you have any ideas of your exes schedule? If it is fairly consisten, why don't you just make the appointment for a family therapy consultation and tell him when it is....that is after you have alrady consulted him, and he has actually agreed to go.

Any one else have any ideas?

Maury

[Dragonfly]

Do you have a Families for Natural Living group in your area? (You can check out the main website - just google the group name.) Most of the parents I really respect I met through that group and it creates opportunities for familiy activities where your son could see good fathers in action.

Other than that, I'll have to think some more about it.