I wish I could stop thinking about it. - Page 2

[magentamomma]

I have been drifting off to sleep when It pops into my mind and I gasp awake with my stomach sick, sometimes i=I cry for the little babies that are experiencing it right now. There is such denial, women watch Oprah about FGM and get furious How could they and all that rightousness, and then deliver sons and cut them without a thought. And the worse for me is not the mamas who don't know, but the mamas who don't want to know or who know but do it any way.

[Microsoap]

Can someone please help me varify?

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

AmyC, could you please give me a link to the sensitivity study?
I know that babies feel stronger pain, on the larger area and for longer period of time than adults, but I don't have the link to this study...
thanks,
yulia.

PS. I too just can't let it go. Every time I see a little boy I wonder of whether he is mutilated or not...

Okay, this is going to sound very bizarre, but I this is the gods honest truth here...

I work at a big thrift store chain and I read the parenting books to see what they say about circumcision (I also secretly scribble the "www.intact.ca" website when I see wrong information, but that's just between you, me and the lamp post here ), but I read in one book that not only do intact males have a higher threshold to tolerate pain, but they did a study on the cries of girls, circumcised boys and intact boys (babies), and they stated that the cries of girls and circumcised boys were nearly identical (?), or very similar (?) compared to the boys who remained intact!

The book is long gone now, but we tend to get the same type of parenting books donated (the "What To Expect When You're Expecting" coming in at least once a month!), and it's entirely possible the same book could come in again. I just wanted to tell everyone about the type of cries. Interesting!

[AmyC]

Originally Posted by Microsoap

Okay, this is going to sound very bizarre, but I this is the gods honest truth here...

I work at a big thrift store chain and I read the parenting books to see what they say about circumcision (I also secretly scribble the "www.intact.ca" website when I see wrong information, but that's just between you, me and the lamp post here ), but I read in one book that not only do intact males have a higher threshold to tolerate pain, but they did a study on the cries of girls, circumcised boys and intact boys (babies), and they stated that the cries of girls and circumcised boys were nearly identical (?), or very similar (?) compared to the boys who remained intact!

I have read something about the pain threshhold, and the type of screaming, being different in circumcised males. But I'm not sure where.

I absolutely love your furtive "penciling in." Good for you -- reaching out to help educate through marginalia!!


Yulia R, the "sensitivity study" I mentioned isn't about infants' sensitivity. My post wasn't clear about that, I know. Sorry if I got your hopes up!

It's the very recent study comparing the circumcised and intact penises of adult males, comparing their sensitivity to fine touch.
It's not what you were looking for, but it may be of interest to you. This info and the links have been posted here in CAC before (that's where I first heard of it!) Anyway, I'll just paste in part of a post about it, on the chance that it's useful to you:


There was a recent sensitivity study published in the BJU International (British Journal of Urology) in April 2007.

Abstract here

Full text of article (pdf) here

Graphs illustrating the comparison findings, here


This recent study was the first time that the intact and circumcised penis were thoroughly, systematically and scientifically tested for sensitivity. The testing method was monofilament testing, the same method used in assessing peripheral neuropathy, such as lack of feeling in the feet of diabetics. The resulting measurements of sensitivity are quantifiable and reproducible. The study was submitted for peer review before being approved for publication.

The study's objective: to map the fine-touch pressure thresholds of the adult penis in circumcised and uncircumcised men, and to compare the two populations.

The conclusion, from the abstract: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

[SweetTeach]

I thought I was the only one who was dealing with this issue. I recently wrote an e-mail with links to information and asking women to consider the issue and I sent it out to pregnant women in my life and women friends in general. I think I'm goint to add to it and send it out periodically. That actually made me feel better for a little while- except no one responded to it!

[AmyC]

Basically, when I saw that newborn with his parents and I thought of the "sensitivity study," it wasn't about convincing them not to hurt their newborn (and rewire his brain to have a lower pain threshhold than he would have normally), but rather taking the angle that with a 75% loss in sensitivity as an adult, opting for that surgery means reducing the sexual sensitivity of their son's genitals. The point being, "Do you think you have the right to reduce the sexual sensitivity of your son's genitals?"

I think the place for that couple to find that material would be in the OB's waiting room or pamphlet dispenser, or verbally from their doctor when they ask about it, or on the news (hello msnbc? Where's your coverage?!), or while they're researching the issue (ha), but not as they're standing in the hallway looking dead-tired after birthing their son, and from a stranger.

I felt so heartsick, but I couldn't figure out how to convey any of that information and really be heard, rather than pissing them off royally from the start. And still accomplishing nothing. I think I am not a good intactivist.

[magentamomma]

My sister recently told me that if she had a son she would circ specifically to reduce sensation, because men were too horny as it was. I felt like screaming and vomiting: :Puke

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by magentamomma

My sister recently told me that if she had a son she would circ specifically to reduce sensation, because men were too horny as it was. I felt like screaming and vomiting: :Puke

Tell her it doesn't stop them from being so horny, it stops them from being able to easily do something about it.

How about telling her she's likely to be setting him up for a life time of frustration and pain?

How DARE she try and control her son's sex drive, that's for no-one but her son. How does she know that he won't end up with a woman whose sex drive matches his? That's sick and wicked thinking - and just the same as the reasons given for fgm in Africa. How would she feel about that? She's just the same.

[magentamomma]

I know iknow i know. I tried to tell her all of that and when I asked her how would she like to not have her labia or clitoris, she said it might be fine if I had never had one.: It is just so indicitive of how we Americans feel about sexuality. It is still a strange Victorian- esque way of viewing our dsires. It is okay to glorify war/violence in art, movies television, but not sex. We have to be ashamed and whisper things like penis, vagina, sex, orgasm, masturbation. Why don't we have to whisper the words murder, military action, death penalty. And I am not trying to be political exactly, I am just pointing out that a movie with a graphic love scene gets an R and Lord of the Rings with its multiple decapitations,dismemberment, decapitation gets a PG-13. The Victorian era is what ushered in pornography, and the sale of child prostitutes and widescale circumcision, is it a coincidence that we are still plagued with these issues today. I would actually like to find a study of which countries had more sexual deviance (i.e. victims) and see if my theory linking circ. and lack of sensitivity to sexual problems and addictions is true. :

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by magentamomma

My sister recently told me that if she had a son she would circ specifically to reduce sensation, because men were too horny as it was. I felt like screaming and vomiting: :Puke

OMFG!!! I'm sorry to say but your sister is SUCH a sick person with tons of 'men issues' if I had to guess : .

I wish a guy from this forum--his nic-name is Blarg--could read it and write your sister his pesponse that you would have forwarded to her...hm, perhaps, I'll try to make that happen now...

[bluetoes]

Originally Posted by magentamomma

My sister recently told me that if she had a son she would circ specifically to reduce sensation, because men were too horny as it was. I felt like screaming and vomiting: :Puke

Hey at least she's sticking to the original puritan sex is dirty reason circ. became popular in the US versus the lies about hygeine and preventing disease.

[vaughnmama]

Man's perspective

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

OMFG!!! I'm sorry to say but your sister is SUCH a sick person with tons of 'men issues' if I had to guess : .

I wish a guy from this forum--his nic-name is Blarg--could read it and write your sister his pesponse that you would have forwarded to her...hm, perhaps, I'll try to make that happen now...

Blarg wrote an extremely helpful response for me from a male point of view on dealing with being circ'ed in my thread "I spoke up in my church today"

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

I wish a guy from this forum--his nic-name is Blarg--could read it and write your sister his pesponse that you would have forwarded to her...hm, perhaps, I'll try to make that happen now...

I'd be willing to write her something, yes. But I'd want to know more details. Just one paraphrased quote isn't much to go off of, and I'd want to convince her rather than write an angry letter.

My first reaction (after anger) is that she must have had some really terrible experiences in the past to be that vindictive towards men. Because her response goes beyond just circumcision.

I can't help but wonder if she was raped or sexually abused in some way in the past (or present?). I'd want to be sensitive to that sort of things, obviously.

The core question is really why does she think guys are too horny? It's easy to refute the idea that circumcision reduces sexual drive (if that's what she really wants, she needs to castrate her boy), but I'd want to approach it from more than just that angle.

[tammyswanson]

How could anyone want to cut a baby 'down there' just because they want to 'desensitize' them down there? Geez, talk about cold hearted..that's scary, actually that she thinks that way.

[magentamomma]

That was an actual quote, and she does have man issues. Her father abandoned her and died before she ever got to confront him. She also has alot of anger in general, physically abusive to her last boyfriend. I love her and know that she is on a path to healing, and I also know that part of her saying that to me was to poke me because she has issues with me as well, partly because she thinks I am a hippy freak and partly because i bring up uncomfortable issues. I eventually got her to concede that if she ever got pregnant she should at least research the issue herself. I brought her up because mostly she is a good person, but it shows how deeply ingrained the feer of sexuality is in our culture, and how there is an under current of sexism towards males that we as a culture need to confront. Sure they get paid more, but they pay a price to keep them in line so to speak. Circumcision is a profitable business, the surgery most obviously, but now Viagra use is more strongly linked to gm as well as artificial lubrication. Imagine a culture like France or Italy with intact males having fulfilled sexual relationships with women who love a natural penis, instead of needing to modify it. By the way, I always thought penises were ugly, until I saw uncircumcised penises. Go figure

[Microsoap]

Originally Posted by magentamomma

My sister recently told me that if she had a son she would circ specifically to reduce sensation, because men were too horny as it was. I felt like screaming and vomiting: :Puke

That's one of the most UA violation reason's I've heard!

So she's not only raping him, but also punishing ALL his future-sexual partners when he has to thrust harder in order to obtain a sexual feeling to his satisfaction during sex.

I think your sister has issues when it comes to men and that she should work that out instead of taking it on in innocent males (her future-sons)!

[magentamomma]

UA definition?

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by magentamomma

UA definition?

User agreement. UA violation usually means a very bad word .