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I spoke up in my church today... - Page 2  

post #21 of 29
so courageous of you to speak up. everytime we do, someone is going to learn and there is a little less torture in the world. how often do we get the chance to personally save multitudes of children from agony?

you rock.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughnmama View Post
However, it seems to be driving a wedge in my marriage. While my hubby has said he regrets the circumcisions, he never (or hardly ever) shows any emotion about the issue. He doesn't give me nearly the amount of encouragement or thoughtfulness that I want from him. I think the force of my conviction now is intimidating him and maybe he thinks I'm going to far. The other night when I was staying up late reading on the topic, he muttered, "this is crazy, this is nuts" which made me so angry. And tonight I was pressing him to tell me why he never talks to me, and he said, "I don't know...it feels like you are changing, and I'm not." (I can see that, I am becoming more assertive.) Circumcision/inactivism is not the only source of stress in our relationship, but I think its becoming a big one. (Oh, yeah, and I should mention our almost complete lack of sex life...we could probably link that to circ on a few levels too...like his insecurities & my resentment over him talking me into cutting our youngest.)

I will give him one thing though...I do need to get off the computer and go to bed.
I think that, being that he is circumcised he has to deal with the emotions that surrounds that and all of the information that you have. My DH doesn't often want to hear the negatives either honestly. After all, this was something that was *done* to him, he didn't have a choice in it. Though our situation is a little different, as DH had no issues keeping our son intact, and I would say now that he is quite proud of that fact. I don't know that I can expect much more from him other than that. Though, the last he he was asked if we had our son circumcised he stared at the person, acting "shocked" like they asked if he had cut off his son's arm, and then said firmly "no!"

So, your DH likely has feelings about it, but there are difficult enough to deal with that he'd rather not. Have you read that vulnerability of men article by vincent bach?
post #23 of 29

Just a thought...

The AIDS-Africa thing is rather.... weird, for lack of a better word. :

They get a large group of intact men and some get circumcised and some remain intact. But they offer sex education and condoms (and some indications say that they only offered it to the men who got circumcised!!!; but, I can't find the source of this atm). So HOW do they know it wasn't the condoms that were the cause of the alleged "60% drop" in AIDS infection?

Wouldn't it be an apple and oranges comparison to not use condoms and see what the results are? OF COURSE, that would be a UA violation stupid thing to do (reckless), and I am NOT advocating this... but it seems like the condoms use hinders the possible results of the outcome (again, yet, it would be reckless not to promote safer sex!). KWIM? :
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
No, I haven't read that article. Is it on a anti-circ website? Maybe I'll just google it. I'm sure it will help for me to try to understand my hubby's feelings whether he can express them himself or not.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughnmama View Post
Thank you all so much for encouraging me and giving me a pat on the back. Truly, it means SO much to have others understand the emotions involved. I know I am doing the right thing by sharing my thoughts and stories and educating myself and others. However, it seems to be driving a wedge in my marriage. While my hubby has said he regrets the circumcisions, he never (or hardly ever) shows any emotion about the issue. He doesn't give me nearly the amount of encouragement or thoughtfulness that I want from him. I think the force of my conviction now is intimidating him and maybe he thinks I'm going to far. The other night when I was staying up late reading on the topic, he muttered, "this is crazy, this is nuts" which made me so angry. And tonight I was pressing him to tell me why he never talks to me, and he said, "I don't know...it feels like you are changing, and I'm not." (I can see that, I am becoming more assertive.) Circumcision/inactivism is not the only source of stress in our relationship, but I think its becoming a big one. (Oh, yeah, and I should mention our almost complete lack of sex life...we could probably link that to circ on a few levels too...like his insecurities & my resentment over him talking me into cutting our youngest.)
I'm circumcised, so perhaps I can provide a little insight. Take this with a grain of salt, though, not as some sort of bible to your husbands psychology. Every guy is different. This is just me.
The other thing is, I'm still figuring myself out, so all of this may be BS. It's just what I think is going on with myself so far.

I have difficulty opening up to people about my own circumcision as well. Even with people that I know will be supportive, it's difficult to open up. And I'm not entirely convinced that it's the stereotypical "guy" thing of just generally being unable to open up. Historically I've been very open with people about other painful things. Although I'm not 100% comfortable with crying around others, when it's someone I know well, and the issue is very emotional to me, I do let loose.

Part of it is that I don't feel comfortable yelling and screaming around people. If I really opened up, I might frighten the person I opened up to (although maybe not, but it still makes me uncomfortable).
The other part is that in opening up to someone else, I'm also opening up to myself. Don't get me wrong: this isn't some denial thing. I have opened up to myself about this issue many times before, and I'm well aware of what's there. I just don't like feeling that way. That's it, really. To really open up to someone else about this is quite literally painful for me, because I have to experience those emotions again.

I can talk about my circumcision coldly (which I wonder if that isn't sort of scary in itself), but I don't really want to open up emotionally. I do think it kind of weirds people out, because they hear disturbing words, but they don't see anything in my eyes or hear anything in my voice. It's like stating the horrors of the world with all the emotion of an encyclopedia article. A boring encyclopedia article.

If what you want is for your husband to come to you with his pain, teary eyed and sobbing, you shouldn't. At least not if he's in a position like me. Wanting that is like wanting more pain for him. Plus, you'd more likely get a lot of anger and yelling.

I have to open up to myself little by little, and deal with this small pieces at a time. It's too much for me to take on all at once.

Lastly, assuming he is dealing with nasty emotional issues about this like I am, he's going to need your support and understanding a lot more than you need his. I know that sounds presumptuous, because I know it's not easy for you to tackle circumcision in the world, but I'm pretty sure it's true. You can't ask a rape victim to go on a grand mission to stop other women from being raped until they've had the time necessary to deal with their own rape, you know? It's too emotionally difficult. And there's no set time table for how long women need to get over being raped, either. Such a concept is nonsense.

The best advice I can give you is to leave him alone about this. It sounds weird, but that's probably the best way you can support him right now. Just let him be. Apparently he already realizes what was done to him, so there's really nothing more for you to do unless he comes to you. You can't force help on people, they have to want it.
If he comes to you for help and support, great. But otherwise please let him be.

Lastly, I want to re-emphasize that I don't know your husband, and this is just based on my own personal experience up to this point. So, again, take it with a grain of salt.
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thank you, blarg, phatchristy, & blsilva, thank you! You have totally opened up my eyes to what my husband may be experiencing and feeling as a circ'ed man (but can't express.) I will definitely leave him alone on the topic and give him time...and stop expecting so much from him.

I truly value all of the insight that is shared on MDC. We are all better people for learning and sharing.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughnmama View Post
I truly value all of the insight that is shared on MDC. We are all better people for learning and sharing.
post #28 of 29
Blarg, I know it is difficult, but take heart in the fact that many newborns in the Bay area, especially in the city, are being spared nowadays. These are infants who are culturally primed towards circ (white, insured, middle class), but are lucky enough to be born into a changing and open culture. We can only hope it spreads to other parts of the country.

It doesn't help your case but I can't help but think that by opening up and expressing your feelings, you are helping to keep the trend rolling along. For that, many men are going to be grateful.
post #29 of 29
I agree that Blarg, and other circed men like him who are willing and brave enough to speak out, are such an asset to the intactivist cause. They are the ones who suffer from the circ directly, so their experience has the most value.
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