Life After Waldorf ~ A Support Group - Page 8

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by Jennifer3141

We just received DS' ADOS score along with some other tests and we will NOT be returning to the Waldorf school in the fall. An educational system that does not make room for children who are differently abled is not intersting to me. I do not want DS in an environment where he's meant to feel like a freak someday.

He is autistic.

I am going to miss the art projects though. Anyone want to do a weekly Waldorf art project with me?!

Well said, Jen. I am very proud of and hopeful for you and your son. I know he will blossom once away from those types of negative influences. It really is true that you just don't know how innondated (sp?) you are by the bad vibes until you are free of them!

I'll do a project with you! I still have my plant-based watercolors and some paper... and my bee'swax crayons... I just don't buy them directly from Waldorf-associated places anymore.

All of the beauty and heart you saw in Waldorf came from within..and it is still there. It always will be. You carry it with you. We can share it with our children anytime.

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by beansavi

All of the beauty and heart you saw in Waldorf came from within..and it is still there. It always will be. You carry it with you. We can share it with our children anytime.

Just feelin' like this bears repeating tonight.

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by beansavi

Just feelin' like this bears repeating tonight.

Amen to that. At the time I was under attack from several quarters of Anthroposophy, I drew a good deal of strength from George Benson's "The Greatest Love of All"

I know I owe some responses here, but I just haven't had time. I'm self employed, and did around 90 hours over the last week. Apols, but I promise to get back to you over the weekend.
Davy

[MHInstC]

On being hung out to dry

Beth,
If I may, I want to turn to your letter of damnation again. It isn't necessary (nor is it my intent) for you to revisit all this pain hurt and anger again, but comparing this letter with my own experience, I want to raise some questions on just how such events come about. By all means, respond should you be so inclined, but what I really want to do is indicate some pointers that others on the thread might care to ask of their own situation.

1) Do you believe that this letter was a consensus, or could it have been the power trip, or the ego trip of one more powerful personality dragging others along?

2) If so, did you detect that this individual was the (probably self-appointed) Spiritual Guardian or Guardian of the Threshold of the school, and consequently most, if not all Anthroposophy locally?

3) Leaving aside your own direct personal conflict for this question, in all your time with Anthroposophy, despite the probability that you wouldn't have had anything said overtly, did you ever detect a pattern (there's probably a better word) of every so often an individual being singled out as something like a lesson to others or a reaffirmation of commitment to Waldorf/Anthroposophy?

4) Trickier one here: To what extent, if any, would you say that this entire painful episode was some kind of reaction to either you or your child not fitting with Waldorf (as opposed to expecting Waldorf to fit you or your child), and that the overt protection of the teacher was the front for either breaking you or getting you out altogether?

As I said earlier, I have not the least wish to reopen wounds, but I do think that these questions might help others to anticipate some things that might befall them, or at least recognise a similar situation should it arise. I believe it is still commonplace to be informed that "it is only you". It isn't, and I think discussing "repeats" might be helpful.

I have addressed this to Beth, but I would of course be happy for anyone to comment.

Davy

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by ravenna206

I have been angry for 2 days because I received a letter from the college telling me that if I was more opened minded and forgiving that all my problems with my daughter's class would go away. Luckily every parent we have talked to and told that we are taking our daughter out of Waldorf, has been supportive! Understanding and so nice. Plus they agreed that what has happened to the class is wrong! I could go on and on. One of the parents I talked to is going to try to get a parent body formed to change how things are run. Which I think is great, so I would like everyone's thoughts and prayers to go out to the little Waldorf school where the parents want change for the positive. They don't think the college deserves and can handle this much power. Plus I don't feel so angry, knowing that my voice isn't going unheard by the good hearted people at the school. Could this be the beginning of change for Steiner's negative ideas being taken so literally? I sure hope so!

Hello ravenna,
..."more open minded and forgiving...all...problems would go away"
Did they chuck in something about you "not understanding" too?
Mantras of Anthroposophy worldwide I fear.
In a Waldorf or other "esoteric" environment this can- and does- leave the target feeling somewhat reduced; as being something less than the speaker.
Now consider the same things said from outside that environment.
Might I suggest that if a public school were to say the same it would mean "shut up, go away and don't concern yourself. Anything we do or say to or with your child is entirely our concern."
Methinks this would send people hot footing along to their local statutory authority offices. Or Congressman, MP or whatever is applicable where we are.
So far as "not understanding" goes, I reckon this simply means that while you may well understand entirely, you don't agree
Some time ago, I read from someone who's grandmother had been a lifelong mountain woman- somewhere in Tennesse/Kentucky if I recall correctly.
Her view on open mindedness was that open mindedness was wonderful...just so long as your own brains don't fall out.
Davy

[cristina47454]

(Don't mean to derail the thread but I wanted to thank beansavi for the thorough explanation about the teeth. I find these explanations so interesting, but I agree, they can be dangerous too. MHInstC - I see you are still active on this thread...I would love it if you would expand on the birth history stuff...)

Cristina

[cristina47454]

.

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by cristina47454

(Don't mean to derail the thread but I wanted to thank beansavi for the thorough explanation about the teeth. I find these explanations so interesting, but I agree, they can be dangerous too. MHInstC - I see you are still active on this thread...I would love it if you would expand on the birth history stuff...)

Cristina

Hello Cristina,
I'm quite happy to share such information as I have, but I do have a little pang of conscience in that relating an example of birth story stuff, I'd not be revealing other utterly relevant info too.
I don't pretend to have all information, but I do feel rather obliged to try to give people as much info as I do have- short of subjecting to a "course" on Anthroposophy! I'd hate to think of myself as raving on to the point of information overload for folk who are newcomers to all this.
I will send something immediate to birth stories in a further post, but if I may, I'll send something here that might indicate just where the (Anthroposophical) 'need' for this info comes from.
Knowing that what some of us involved with objective thinking of Anthroposophy know to be true, others don't find credible... big breath....

Our species originated in a cosmic age Steiner called 'Old Saturn' embodiment. In that embodiment we existed as pure spirit. We devolved (as opposed to evolved) from that state through a series of further embodiments becoming more dense, ie physical or material, at each stage. These stages were, if I remember correctly, Old Saturn (heat) Old Sun (air) Old Moon (water) and Earth (solidity)-our current embodiment.
This 'devolution' was arrested by The Christ Event: The Sun Being (Jesus) brought about an upturn, and while we remain just now still in Earth embodiment, we have turned the corner and are now, (through Anthroposophy of course) evolving back to a state of pure spirit. This will come about through embodiments Steiner called Jupiter (=Old Moon), Venus (=Old Sun) and Vulcan (=Old Saturn)

Biting my lip now, wondering just how many of you have given up on me...(wry smile)...

These 'embodiments' relate to what some of you might have heard referred to as 'Fourfold Man': stages we go through in each of our incarnations, certainly those incarnations of the Earth embodiment.
These stages are:
Physical- at birth. relates to Earth
Etheric- age seven- change of teeth. Relates to Jupiter and Old Moon
Astral- age 14. relates to Venus and Old Sun.
Ego, or Individual 'I'- relates to Vulcan and Old Sun.

I think this is enough for one post. I do so hope that I have neither seemed to try to teach you how to suck eggs (those of you with some familiarity with all this) or impressed you as some kind of smart-ass a la Waldorf teacher. It's just some stuff the brochures and open days don't even hint at.

If we allow that the movement does indeed seriously believe they are acting in our best interests- and most adherents do- why do you think they try to keep their agenda under wraps?

Hope this isn't too clumsy
Davy

[MamaLuna]

Thank you for this thread, I needed this...

Though I have not had the time to read through all 8 pages of this thread, I do want to add my response.

I want to thank you all for this thread. I would not say that my Waldorf experiences have come even close to being as negative as what some of you have unfortunately had to experience, I have still witnessed some things that have made me uncomfortable and downright angry and for the first time I feel justified in my observations.

My son attends a newly formed school (one year old) in a small community. I am an aide in the classroom 1 day/week. I am also pursuing a degree in (regular) education, and obviously I see firsthand the many constrasts between Waldorf and public school practices. I have questioned some aspects of Waldorf from the beginning. And others I fully appreciate and embrace. I have seen changes in my son that are wonderful and I would not change for the world. As others have said, there are some truly beautiful and dynamic things about the Waldorf philosophy, ones that I intend to bring with me to the public school classroom. However...there is an ugly side and I have defiinitely noticed the disfunction and the fact that for those of us who see it, there is almost nowhere to go with our concerns. The community is way too defensive and overprotective. When I brought ANY questions (not complaints, just observations, and wanting clarifications) about the educational practices of Waldorf to the attention of our teacher, she completely ignored me and changed the subject!

For one example, being a minor in special education, I have questions about dyslexia and other learning disabilities...are Waldorf teachers trained to see the symptoms and signs of these problems? If so, how are they dealt with? Are the children helped or are they asked to find another school that can better handle their differences that make them unique from the other learners (in other words, kicked out!)?

I attended a Waldorf seminar in which one of the presenters described the problems her son had had in a Waldorf school with reading and writing, she described her son as having nearly every classic symptom of dyslexia (though she refused to label it as such). He was very frustrated in school because the Waldorf way does not support kids with such issues. He got no help there, so she pulled him out and tried homeschooling, she tried nearly everything she could think of to help him and eventually gave up and resigned herself to the fact that her son would never really be able to truly write or spell (and a lesser ability to read). I just couldn't help wondering why did she not seek more conventional help for her son so that he could overcome his disability and be able to read and write? And how does Waldorf address this? It seems to me that it is totally ignored. If so, how many kids slip through the cracks?

Additionally, one of the other major issues I have so far had involve the lead teacher and personality conflicts. For one, she could at times be very degrading to the children (telling them to "quit your crying!", etc). I think I was the only one to question her less than professional handling of discipline and other such issues. Then came the issue of favoritism. Because I was the one that was always bringing up things she didn't want to hear, I was not her favorite aide, while another aide was. This resulted in ridiculous and blatent acts of favoritism. Once again, I was shocked by the lack of professionalism. Although I did bring this issue to the teacher (she denied it all and said I was seeing it all wrong), I did not take it further because she will, thankfully, not be returning next year (her own choice). The favoritism that I saw seems to go along with things others have mentioned here about the illusion of community, and yet it is actually a limited community and just by saying the wrong thing, you can find yourself on the wrong side of community. Which I find to be extremely hypocritical and going against everything that Waldorf is supposed to be about.

Lastly, I just wanted to say thank you to you all for helping me make a decision. I have been until now tossing around the idea of pursuing certification in Waldorf education once I have finished my current degree, and then teaching at my son's school. My previous hesitation is that Waldorf is so limited and so rigid. There is such a lack of room for diverse thinking (despite the illusion otherwise). I personally want to teach to a more diverse population than what is typically found at a Waldorf school. Secondly, I want more freedom to teach what I want to teach and to teach in a way that recognizes the diversity of the individual learner--which ironically, despite NCLB and standarized testing, I think I will actually find easier to do in a public school rather than a Waldorf school. Still, as a matter of convienience and the needs of the school, I hadn't ruled out being a Waldorf teacher. Now, after reading this thread, my mind is made up. I will not be going in that direction.

I want to also add that I know that these things also happen in public schools, I am not naive enough to think that they don't. However, I would like to think that there are more safeguards set up to help and protect parents and students there than in a small community/private school setting, especially one in which you are burned at the stake for even suggesting that there could be any faults in the system.

(sorry for the long post

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by cristina47454

Hello all

Max, I would be very interested in knowing what conclusions are drawn from birth history. Would you mind expanding? I'm a bit of a "birth junkie", having had two extraordinarily different experiences with each of my daughters' births (and they couldn't be more different than each other) and then becoming a birth doula for a couple of years. I hope you are still checking this post...

Cristina

Hello again Cristina,
The crux of my previous post was to indicate that in Anthro terms, issues of parental relationships to children is a pretty transitory affair barely worth worrying about: for each and every one of us this incarnation is simply yet another step on our return to a state of unrestricted spirit in the Vulcan embodiment aeons from now.
You are I think, probably under the impression that you and your kid's father made the kids all by yourselves?
Well, according to Steiner, when your child was between the last incarnation and this one, ie in the spirit world, THEY CHOSE their parents, doing so as an act to enable particular circumstances that would further their spiritual evolution toward Vulcan.
Soooooo.....the physical processes of conception, gestation and birth are really little to do with the relationship between mother and father.
Now, we have already visited the 'components' that lead to the incarnation of the complete human (physical, etheric, astral and Individual 'I') so the conception to birth process (the physical incarnation) defines any constraints places on the ability of the other aspects to incarnate fully.

Perhaps Jennifer and/or fluttermama would like to pitch in on this ( for those unfamiliar with the term, Asperger's Syndrome is the very able end of the autism continuum) during my 'training' -which I very quickly came to see as indoctrination- it was revealed that one of our autistic people made their bow following an induced labour. This meant that the physical body was forced to incarnate before the germinating etheric, astral and Individual 'I' were ready.Hence, while the physical body might be absolutely ace, one or more of the other constituents didn't have the opportunity to incarnate properly- ergo a Special Needs incarnation.
Enter Anthroposophy (which alone recognises all of this) with its 'theraputic' care..art, eurythmy, nature, wood, music et al to counteract the imbalances thereby empowering a further advancement toward spirit in the next incarnation.
Assuming most of this is new to most of you, I will hope that this example serves as some indicator of all that lies behind the 'individual study' of what you consider YOUR child.

---------------------------------
I'm just reading that back. Was that really me?
While I have done my level best to express this in plainspeak, keeping Anthrospeak to a minimum, you might care to think of all this in mainstream terms. Despite all the astral, etheric stuff, do you really see any thrust that wouldn't be found in any half-decent care centre or school?
School? Yes all this permeates Waldorf/Steiner schools too!
Some of you will have realised by now that I'm a Brit, resident in UK.
Not surprisingly it is UK sites that I'm most familiar with, so should any of you want to read a little more, ( I can't possibly put everything here)you might care to visit a site that the former list referred to: www.easeonline.org

For more first-hand info on what goes on in teacher training for Steiner/Waldorf education, click on the Education page.
Jennifer and fluttermama might care to visit the Special Needs page. It doesn't say a huge amount, but, so far as I am aware, it is the only English language page to at least raise some questions.

More generally, but much more heart-tuggingly, try:
www.waldorfeducation.me.uk
I doubt if anyone could get to the end of page one without a lump in their throat.

I think I have posted a good deal more than my fair share over the weekend.
I'll shut up for while now.
Peace to you and yours..YOURS!
Davy

[beansavi]

Max! Big s for explaining the Old Saturn/Birth information so well! Well done! I had forgotten about some of that and it is certainly pertinent here.

Originally Posted by MHInstC

It's just some stuff the brochures and open days don't even hint at.

If we allow that the movement does indeed seriously believe they are acting in our best interests- and most adherents do- why do you think they try to keep their agenda under wraps?

Hope this isn't too clumsy
Davy

What you ask above is very important. I think it is the foundation of what we should ask Waldorf here and beyond.

It seems you and I learned our Anthroposophy lessons well... and in the end we learned more than we bargained for, too.

[beansavi]

I am still catching up on posts here, but will certainly begin to answer these great questions in a bit...

Originally Posted by MHInstC

Beth,
If I may, I want to turn to your letter of damnation again. It isn't necessary (nor is it my intent) for you to revisit all this pain hurt and anger again, but comparing this letter with my own experience, I want to raise some questions on just how such events come about. By all means, respond should you be so inclined, but what I really want to do is indicate some pointers that others on the thread might care to ask of their own situation.

1) Do you believe that this letter was a consensus, or could it have been the power trip, or the ego trip of one more powerful personality dragging others along?

2) If so, did you detect that this individual was the (probably self-appointed) Spiritual Guardian or Guardian of the Threshold of the school, and consequently most, if not all Anthroposophy locally?

3) Leaving aside your own direct personal conflict for this question, in all your time with Anthroposophy, despite the probability that you wouldn't have had anything said overtly, did you ever detect a pattern (there's probably a better word) of every so often an individual being singled out as something like a lesson to others or a reaffirmation of commitment to Waldorf/Anthroposophy?

4) Trickier one here: To what extent, if any, would you say that this entire painful episode was some kind of reaction to either you or your child not fitting with Waldorf (as opposed to expecting Waldorf to fit you or your child), and that the overt protection of the teacher was the front for either breaking you or getting you out altogether?

As I said earlier, I have not the least wish to reopen wounds, but I do think that these questions might help others to anticipate some things that might befall them, or at least recognise a similar situation should it arise. I believe it is still commonplace to be informed that "it is only you". It isn't, and I think discussing "repeats" might be helpful.

I have addressed this to Beth, but I would of course be happy for anyone to comment.

Davy

[beansavi]

Max you wrote:

More generally, but much more heart-tuggingly, try:
www.waldorfeducation.me.uk
I doubt if anyone could get to the end of page one without a lump in their throat.

O.M.G. I had never heard of this site before. I am welling up with tears having only read the poem on the first page. Good for whoever this person is for making that site!

Thanks for sharing it with us.

:

Beth

[beansavi]

Mamaluna,

I am so glad you have found this thread and posted here. I wish I could find the right words to say that everything, literally everything you mentioned in your post I have heard dozens of times before... and you are in good company.

I have to add that I am like-minded in your quest to teach in a public school, bring what you liked about Waldorf (maybe Enki, too) into the classroom, and that a major reason for that choice is the legal safeguards provided in the public schol realm. As we have seen, those safeguards are not in place in Waldorf.

I have used much of what I did in Waldorf in my Spanish and French middle and high school classes, and am currently working on my Masters degree for elementary education. The only difference is that I did not bring Anthroposophy to the students via waldorf activities...I simply used them in the framework of Multiple Intelligences and different learning styles that children have (i.e. some are musical learners, some more hands-on physical, mathematical, etc.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was provided a full scholarship by my former Waldorf school to go to Rudolf Steiner college every summer for teacher training (6 weeks each summer). When they fired me, they sat at the table and actually had the nerve and audacity to tell me I had to pay back all the money it cost them to send me to teacher training.

Remember, I made $24,000.00 a year and was supporting my dh (a stay-at-home dad and my two children) and the school stopped my paychecks after that week.

Luckily I knew that my contract stipulated that I only had to pay them back if I quit, and not if I was fired.

Do you know that they actually REFUSED to utter the word "fired" and kept saying, "your choices make us assume you will not be here next year". When I said bluntly, "I am not quitting", they said "We have no position for you here, though all of your students are returning, but we are not saying we are firing you. You are doing this due to your actions."

What the he** kind of weird mumbo jumbo word game is that?

Good grief.

Their cruelty knew NO BOUNDS.

Beth/Bean

Originally Posted by MamaLuna

Though I have not had the time to read through all 8 pages of this thread, I do want to add my response.

I want to thank you all for this thread. I would not say that my Waldorf experiences have come even close to being as negative as what some of you have unfortunately had to experience, I have still witnessed some things that have made me uncomfortable and downright angry and for the first time I feel justified in my observations.

My son attends a newly formed school (one year old) in a small community. I am an aide in the classroom 1 day/week. I am also pursuing a degree in (regular) education, and obviously I see firsthand the many constrasts between Waldorf and public school practices. I have questioned some aspects of Waldorf from the beginning. And others I fully appreciate and embrace. I have seen changes in my son that are wonderful and I would not change for the world. As others have said, there are some truly beautiful and dynamic things about the Waldorf philosophy, ones that I intend to bring with me to the public school classroom. However...there is an ugly side and I have defiinitely noticed the disfunction and the fact that for those of us who see it, there is almost nowhere to go with our concerns. The community is way too defensive and overprotective. When I brought ANY questions (not complaints, just observations, and wanting clarifications) about the educational practices of Waldorf to the attention of our teacher, she completely ignored me and changed the subject!

For one example, being a minor in special education, I have questions about dyslexia and other learning disabilities...are Waldorf teachers trained to see the symptoms and signs of these problems? If so, how are they dealt with? Are the children helped or are they asked to find another school that can better handle their differences that make them unique from the other learners (in other words, kicked out!)?

I attended a Waldorf seminar in which one of the presenters described the problems her son had had in a Waldorf school with reading and writing, she described her son as having nearly every classic symptom of dyslexia (though she refused to label it as such). He was very frustrated in school because the Waldorf way does not support kids with such issues. He got no help there, so she pulled him out and tried homeschooling, she tried nearly everything she could think of to help him and eventually gave up and resigned herself to the fact that her son would never really be able to truly write or spell (and a lesser ability to read). I just couldn't help wondering why did she not seek more conventional help for her son so that he could overcome his disability and be able to read and write? And how does Waldorf address this? It seems to me that it is totally ignored. If so, how many kids slip through the cracks?

Additionally, one of the other major issues I have so far had involve the lead teacher and personality conflicts. For one, she could at times be very degrading to the children (telling them to "quit your crying!", etc). I think I was the only one to question her less than professional handling of discipline and other such issues. Then came the issue of favoritism. Because I was the one that was always bringing up things she didn't want to hear, I was not her favorite aide, while another aide was. This resulted in ridiculous and blatent acts of favoritism. Once again, I was shocked by the lack of professionalism. Although I did bring this issue to the teacher (she denied it all and said I was seeing it all wrong), I did not take it further because she will, thankfully, not be returning next year (her own choice). The favoritism that I saw seems to go along with things others have mentioned here about the illusion of community, and yet it is actually a limited community and just by saying the wrong thing, you can find yourself on the wrong side of community. Which I find to be extremely hypocritical and going against everything that Waldorf is supposed to be about.

Lastly, I just wanted to say thank you to you all for helping me make a decision. I have been until now tossing around the idea of pursuing certification in Waldorf education once I have finished my current degree, and then teaching at my son's school. My previous hesitation is that Waldorf is so limited and so rigid. There is such a lack of room for diverse thinking (despite the illusion otherwise). I personally want to teach to a more diverse population than what is typically found at a Waldorf school. Secondly, I want more freedom to teach what I want to teach and to teach in a way that recognizes the diversity of the individual learner--which ironically, despite NCLB and standarized testing, I think I will actually find easier to do in a public school rather than a Waldorf school. Still, as a matter of convienience and the needs of the school, I hadn't ruled out being a Waldorf teacher. Now, after reading this thread, my mind is made up. I will not be going in that direction.

I want to also add that I know that these things also happen in public schools, I am not naive enough to think that they don't. However, I would like to think that there are more safeguards set up to help and protect parents and students there than in a small community/private school setting, especially one in which you are burned at the stake for even suggesting that there could be any faults in the system.

(sorry for the long post

[beansavi]

Okie doke. I'm going to try and post in red inside your quote. Hope this works!

Originally Posted by MHInstC

Beth,
If I may, I want to turn to your letter of damnation again. It isn't necessary (nor is it my intent) for you to revisit all this pain hurt and anger again, but comparing this letter with my own experience, I want to raise some questions on just how such events come about. By all means, respond should you be so inclined, but what I really want to do is indicate some pointers that others on the thread might care to ask of their own situation.

I am always okay revisiting the pain when it is in the context of healing and warning others.

1) Do you believe that this letter was a consensus, or could it have been the power trip, or the ego trip of one more powerful personality dragging others along?

It was truly bizarre how one moment I was being asked to type up my complaint about the two KG teachers in reference to my son's molestation....and then after the KG teachers held a meeting with the Personnel Committee and Faculty, everything changed 180 degrees.

Literally every single person was against me after secret meetings held as late as 9:00 p.m. Because I was not permitted to attend the meetings that were held ABOUT ME, I was kept completely in the dark and unable to correct any misconceptions about me. The one person who claimed to be my confidante I now see was really just relaying information to them about where my "heart was".


2) If so, did you detect that this individual was the (probably self-appointed) Spiritual Guardian or Guardian of the Threshold of the school, and consequently most, if not all Anthroposophy locally?

This is THE QUESTION!

Wow. Now that you've asked that, it, um, explains a lot. What I do know is that once the representative from AWSNA (Association of Waldorf Schools in North America) came down and met with the faulty (without me), the faculty's attitude shifted to one that was very aloof and superior, stating that whatever decisions they made about me, no matter how unfair I (or any parent) perceived them to be, were acceptable. A sort of attitude of entitlement and spiritual superiority based on destiny,or something, etc.

3) Leaving aside your own direct personal conflict for this question, in all your time with Anthroposophy, despite the probability that you wouldn't have had anything said overtly, did you ever detect a pattern (there's probably a better word) of every so often an individual being singled out as something like a lesson to others or a reaffirmation of commitment to Waldorf/Anthroposophy?

YES. I felt that I was being made a lesson of, and by punishing me, those who did so were learning to take their place among the spiritual elite. It felt like after those secret meetings, those who punished me felt they ahd gained some dort of promotion within a spiritual group of some kind and could do what they wanted with me. Does that make sense? i am so gald you asked this question... I couldn't pinpoint this particular issue for me until now.

4) Trickier one here: To what extent, if any, would you say that this entire painful episode was some kind of reaction to either you or your child not fitting with Waldorf (as opposed to expecting Waldorf to fit you or your child), and that the overt protection of the teacher was the front for either breaking you or getting you out altogether?

I feel it was exactly those two things. Once they found they could not break me (and they said exactly that---that they were surprised I was holding up so well after the punishments they gave me!--- once could not be broken they excommunicated me and cut off my paycheck, sent out a letter to the parents of the whole school about me saying I quit (!) and sent me a letter stating that my last day was such and such. One sentence. Nothing more.

These questions did open the wounds... but I really feel in this moment that opening them is a gift. Thank you. I suddenly have a lot of clarity about what happened. As confusingly bizzarre as their behavior was to me, hearing that you must have seen the same (since you knew what to ask!) is somehow comforting. Thank you.

~BETH

[beansavi]

Max you wrote:

2) If so, did you detect that this individual was the (probably self-appointed) Spiritual Guardian or Guardian of the Threshold of the school, and consequently most, if not all Anthroposophy locally?

OMG!

That is what happened!

Max/Davy, you have just given me the answer to a very large riddle that has loomed over me for so long. You have no idea! I never understood when and where everything just "snapped" and suddenly I was evil in the eyes of the school. OMG. That is what happened: the faculty, many new to Waldorf, were they informed by AWSNA that they had a spiritual calling to maintain that Waldorf school and I was a negative force or something? It always felt like they were suddenly given a new perspective on me. One that did not match who I really am. were they taught how to treat me like crap and given all their ideas on how to create hoops for someone to jump through?

Pant. Pant. Deep breath.

Those punishments that seemed to come out of nowhere. That's why they turned on me.

OMG.:

Have you ever had that feeling of "this is the TRUTH and I can feel it in my bones"?
Thank you times a million for answering this for me, Max.

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by beansavi

[I]Max you wrote:

You have no idea! I never understood when and where everything just "snapped" and suddenly I was evil in the eyes of the school. OMG. That is what happened: the faculty, many new to Waldorf, were they informed by AWSNA that they had a spiritual calling to maintain that Waldorf school and I was a negative force or something? It always felt like they were suddenly given a new perspective on me. One that did not match who I really am. were they taught how to treat me like crap and given all their ideas on how to create hoops for someone to jump through?

Pant. Pant. Deep breath.

Those punishments that seemed to come out of nowhere. That's why they turned on me.

OMG.:

Have you ever had that feeling of "this is the TRUTH and I can feel it in my bones"?
Thank you times a million for answering this for me, Max.

To whom else would you equate this experience?
I don't want to put words into other people's mouths, but I am entitled to my own thoughts:
Perhaps something similar could have been found in pretty far left trade union circles (in UK at least) in the 1970/80s
Maybe you would have met such things (although probably stemming from different reasons) with some Church Court in the 18-19th centuries.
My own thoughts- and I know full well this will flabergast readers with little or no experience of just what expressions are used commonly in Anthro in-house meetings.
You personally will have heard of things like "Ahrimanic/Lucerific influences" being expressed in the closed environment of the meeting. this would be rendered as something like "negativity" by the time pronouncements are more public.
This 'spiritual Guardian' seems to have come along and 'awakened' the meetings (congregation?) to all the 'spiritual realities' of the situation.
It probably isn't a helluva comfort, but maybe you should be a little comforted that all this didn't befall you in 17th century Salem, Mass., or about the same time in England, where the Inquisitor may well have been one Matthew Hopkins aka Witchfinder General!
Sounds outrageous I know, but zeal such as it appears you encountered demands an outlet in order to self-justify itself.
Just some thoughts, no doubt to be countered by accusations of 'nutts' directed at me, and "oh, not at our school" at others.
Not unless or until their own time comes.l

[beansavi]

I guess what I am saying is that I always wondered about the faculty at my former Waldorf school suddenly acting so entitled. Their wording in their letters was that way, too. Basically a , "You may not think we are behaving fairly, but that is irrelevant"kind of thing. Then, when you pointed out Anthropops indeed do behave in that manner, it all clicked.

I think your Scottish "accent" got a bit in the way of my understanding on your last post, Max. Did I answer everything you were asking?



Bean

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by beansavi

I guess what I am saying is that I always wondered about the faculty at my former Waldorf school suddenly acting so entitled. Their wording in their letters was that way, too. Basically a , "You may not think we are behaving fairly, but that is irrelevant"kind of thing. Then, when you pointed out Anthropops indeed do behave in that manner, it all clicked.

I think your Scottish "accent" got a bit in the way of my understanding on your last post, Max. Did I answer everything you were asking?



Bean

Hi Bean,
So far as 'answering everything' goes, I don't know if you have or not, nor can I!
The questions I put stemmed in part from experience of what happened to me, but more so on things I had seen done to others.
I tried to frame the questions in a way that might help people to their [own[/I]interpretation/understanding of what might happen, or did actually happen. So I think the matter of asking "have I answered everything" is perhaps best asked of oneself.
Of course, none of this means anyone needs stop discussing events, but since it involves your intelligence, your emotions, your family, your life your spirituality- as it did mine, personally I am content for folk to arrive at their own conclusions.
I do so hope that doesn't sound evasive, that is far from my intention.

Turning to "acting fairly" I imagine that the guy from AWSNA was probably a blue card holder. this means that he has been through the First Class Course of the School of Spiritual Science. Perhaps, it would be helpful for us to consider the caveat at the steiner archive website:
"Rudolf Steiner has given the following prefaratory words for all of his writing: No person is qualified to form a judgment on the contents of this work, who has not acquired- through the School of Spiritual Science...- the requisite preliminary knowledge. Other opinions will be disregarded: the authors decline to take them as a basis for discussion."

www.rsarchive.org/caveat/php?win
I last accessed this early this year.

Does this indicate a possible mind set of the Awsna rep, and maybe the dispostion of those comparative newcomers on your school's college, who were, perhaps unknowingly being groomed a neophytes?

I can maybe offer some more possibilities should you want, but right now, it's approaching 2:00 am. ( I'm back to working some queer hours)

May I reiterate that I don't see myself as having answers, but I do sincerely hope that I can give people sufficient information to work out their own.
I hope that seems fair.
Have I given you sufficient building blocks, varying accents/dialects notwithstanding? (grin)

Oh wad some po'oer the giftie gie us
Tae see oorsels as ithers see us
Robert Burns 1759-1795

Max

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by MHInstC

Hi Bean,

Does this indicate a possible mind set of the Awsna rep, and maybe the dispostion of those comparative newcomers on your school's college, who were, perhaps unknowingly being groomed a neophytes?

I can maybe offer some more possibilities should you want, but right now, it's approaching 2:00 am. ( I'm back to working some queer hours)

May I reiterate that I don't see myself as having answers, but I do sincerely hope that I can give people sufficient information to work out their own.
I hope that seems fair.
Have I given you sufficient building blocks, varying accents/dialects notwithstanding? (grin)

Oh wad some po'oer the giftie gie us
Tae see oorsels as ithers see us
Robert Burns 1759-1795

Max

Thanks, Max/Davy. I am so grateful you are among us.

...and hey! I actually understood most of that there quote!

Bean/Beth