Life After Waldorf ~ A Support Group - Page 2

[MsChatsAlot]

My son is developmentally behind. He is capable of learning, has no challenges in particular, just a year or so behind his chronological age, gets along with younger kids better, functions emotionally, spiritually, mentally & physically a little behind.

They refused to allow him to start a grade younger than his chronological age. Our Waldorf is very popular and she told me that they didn't have to take him because they have tons of normal kids would would fit in their program.

Our Waldorf is also very affluent. I was not encouraged because I am a single parent. 2 of us were on a tour together and only the other mother was introduced to the admissions director (and they knew nothing about my interest for my son to be placed in a lower grade at that point). All she knew was that I was a single parent.

I am grateful now, that they didn't choose us. While I see great value in what they do, if they are only taking affluent children, what kind of life experience will that provide my child anyway? If children are not allowed to go where they fit best, but forced into a grade with children that share the same birth year but nothing else, how effective is that anyway? Even the public school will let me put my son in a lower grade so he does better.

I was so excited and encouraged. The tour was wonderful, the school great, I really liked what they were teaching but after that, I was totally turned off.

[BelovedK]

Thanks for sharing your story MCA ,I'm happy that you found out it time (whew!)

[~Kira~]

Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot

Our Waldorf is very popular and she told me that they didn't have to take him because they have tons of normal kids would would fit in their program.

As the mom of a 3.5 year old who has a speech delay, may I say:


HOLY CRAP!





I would have been livid to have my child treated this way. I am so so so sorry!




- Kira

(who is reading and will post soon about my experience and perhaps a bit more on my experience trying to fit back in to the mainstream after my time as a Waldorf student.)

[NamastePlatypus]

WOW is all I can say! No wonder this group was started.

What I am curious about am I reading into it wrong or do you have to give ALOT of personal info that an another private school might not ask for> If so what do they want/ need and why?

IS all of the dynamics the result of another private school gone upity or is this a waldorf thing? I am really wanting to hear more about this.

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by beansavi

Welcome.

Here we are. We are a group of women who have been together for 18 months sharing our stories, our pain, and our quest for healing ourselves and our children.

Today, we begin anew, in a new sub-forum.

Welcome to all newcomers, male or female, who need to be here, as well.

Let me state clear as day, that this thread belongs to all of us, though I tend to be on here a lot because I need to share my story, make sense of what happened tome and my child, help others, and heal.

I will post my story soon.

Smiles and peace,

Beansavi (aka Beth)

I do so hope the odd fellah might be allowed to post here too.
Congrats on your Renaissance Bean.

[MHInstC]

Originally Posted by NamastePlatypus

WOW is all I can say! No wonder this group was started.

What I am curious about am I reading into it wrong or do you have to give ALOT of personal info that an another private school might not ask for> If so what do they want/ need and why?

IS all of the dynamics the result of another private school gone upity or is this a waldorf thing? I am really wanting to hear more about this.

Hello Namaste,
I have to be brief- gotta shoot off to work.
How would you (and others) feel about giving a writtten submission on your pregnancy, labour and delivery of your child?
This is the starting point of 'Individual Studies' carried out with your child as subject, at Waldorf Schools and Camphill villages.
This information is 'vital' to understanding the subject person. eg autism can frequently be attributed to induced labour.
Have to dash, but I can expand a bit more later if you are interested.
Max

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by MHInstC

I do so hope the odd fellah might be allowed to post here too.
Congrats on your Renaissance Bean.

Of course, fellahs are also Welcome!

I have so much to say about these great posts... but am in --nak-- mode and getting ready to take my eldest to the doc.

But I'll be back !

Smilies,
Bean

[boobybunny]

How about being close friends with a waldorf teacher.

Before she graduated from the program, she was our "nanny" and she is now married to my oldest and dearest friend. The first year she was teaching at Waldorf, she completely poo pooed ALL of our parenting skills. It was really strange, on the one hand she compliments us all the time on how well behaved and great our children are, and the next she is telling me how rewarding my oldest child's completed homework, or chores with video game time is destructive. She is now pregnant with their first child, and has told her husband that their child will not have the thomas trains stuff... too commercial, how leggos will not be allowed because they are evil plastic, and that they will not vax the kiddo. He is a family med doc, and that last one went over like a lead zeppelin. But also the rest are not sitting well with any of us. Leggos are plastic, but the small motor skills, the imagination used is important, not to mention they are fun! Thomas is fun imaginative play with problem solving. (have you ever tried to make a track?) There are countless other examples, these are just what pops into my mind now.

It is almost like she has been brain washed. Seriously, anything but the waldorf way is bad, modern education, modern technology is evil.

Her husband has been a video game FREAK!!! since the early 80's. I do not think it harmed him... he is a very warm and loving person, with a heck of a brain, and well... he made it through med school. He used VG as brain mushing, turning off stress when he needed too, and as a tool to talk to younger patients. HE HAS NOT PLAYED VGs in a year. Yet, when he is at my home, he seeks our oldest out to WATCH him play on his PSP.

Sorry, I am just venting and purging everything I want to say to her, but am afraid it will end our friendship. She has truly changed since becoming a waldorf teacher.

[beansavi]

Hi BoobyBunny (great username, btw ),

Yes, it does feel like brainwashing to be so extremely against basic things like leggos and Thomas the Tank Engine. What I was taught as a Waldorf teacher was that plastic is damaging to the spirit of an incarnating child. When you touch it, there is no reciprocal vibe, as in, it does not have any postivie energy, but is instead "dead".

I could even go along with this vibrational concept a bit, but I believe human beings (and their spirits) are not as wussy as Waldorf would want me to believe. I love my Fisher Price people (ahem, have I ever mentioned that?: ), and other items I had as a child that felt imbued with great energy simply because I was a happy person in a happy home with my grandmother, etc. etc.

After years of Waldorf from both a teacher's and parent's perspective, I now believe that it is the consistent energy of home and family that have the most influence on a child.

In my world, The Great Spirit is an artist and can manifest goodness and wholesomeness in an abundance of ways... not just in the form of "plant-based stained wooden toys from Germany".

KWIM?

I think I found my new siggie.

[EXOLAX]

Hi ladies. I wanted to just pipe in here and say a few things.

First, my PC caveat: I know that all schools are different, all teachers are different and all families are different. What may work for some, might not work for others. People can have positive and negative experiences in the same environment, so much is variable based on family circumstance, personality and need. Some public schools are bad, some are good. Some private schools are bad, some are good. What might be bad for my family, might be good for another etc..

Our natural family style was/is very much an incorporation of both Waldorf and Reggio Emilia approaches. DP and I both have a love of natural toys and learning through experience. Waldorf crafts and toys where what we naturally went toward. Reggio environment is what we naturally created. We discovered both of these teaching methodologies when we started doing our school research and they both seemed to click with what we naturally did. When our DD was a toddler we started looking into private school options for her because _our_ local public school didn't seem like a good fit for our child.

We are fortunate to 1) have the option of sending our DD's to private school and 2) have a number of RE schools and a waldorf school to choose from. I am naturally skeptical. Because of that I tend to research _everything_, from both sides before making any decisions. I researched RE and WE methodology online before going to look at our local schools. I found tons of information on both styles of education, and was really surprised when I came open the obvious contrast that I couldn't find any anti-RE sites, but did find numerous WE ones. How odd that people can have such negative experiences with a specific teaching methodology that support sites are created around them. (I would like to note that there are many people out there who did not like Reggio either, but for reasons I could easily extrapolate: not enough formalised teaching, thought their kids weren't actually learning etc..)

Being a researcher, I naturally looked into the history of both methodologies. I looked into RE and had no bells of concern ring off. Looked into Steiner, and well, maybe I looked a little too much . I came out of my RE research with a few questions for the school we were considering (how do you incorporate traditional learning into your RE approach, how do you manage to take the RE philosophy through 5th grade when even the Italians who created it think it shouldn't be done). I came out of my WE research with pages of questions. FWIW, I was really surprised that a methodology that seemed so revolved around creativity and natural environments was also so structured in what the children were 'allowed' to do. My research left me confused by the dicotomy I saw it's own approach.

We visited both schools, with a wealth of knowledge in our minds. I understood that all schools do things differently, so I wanted to give our local schools a chance. Maybe our WE school wasn't strict Steiner and took the aspects I love and left the rest. Lots of bells and whistles went off for us. I didn't really care about the colors of the rooms, if they weren't touting to the kids why they were that way (which they didn't). I was surprised by the mess (not kids clutter), but gunk. I was saddened that they forced the kids to wear certain things: not letting them self regulate, but I know many parents like this. I was a little overwhelmed by the religious symbolism for pre-schoolers, but again, as long as they didn't teach religion I'd be ok. The contrast between the WE school (all artwork looked the same) and the RE ones (different mediums, all art unique) was huge. We listened for buzz words and heard a few that turned us off. Maybe we did too much research, maybe I'd read too much Steiner going into it that I extrapolated more then was intended. But when they did mention some labels (not something I'm into) and when I heard the word Karma we wrote it off. (Our DD was born with multiple craniofacial birth defects, and like I said, I had read Anthroposphy material and knew how Steiner would view our lovely DD. I was listening for these buzz words to see how much had made it's way back down to the teachers.)

So, we gave it a shot and a chance. Maybe others would have given it more, but after one tour we decided it wasn't for our DD. We opted for the RE school and have loved it.

Ok, I'm LOL right now. DH is really good with writing things and just getting to the point. I could have just written this:
I am so sad that so many of you had such negative experiences with one teaching methodolgy. I want you to know though that through the sharing of your experiences you can help others in getting educated and informed. That through your heartfelt words others can garner information to help them make informed decisions on their own. I am sorry for all that you went through, but I support your desire to heal and learn from your experiences. Through similiar websites we found when looking into WE we received a ton of information that helped us make our own informed and educated decision for our DD as to whether WE was right for her.

Someday I will learn to just get to the point.

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by xaloxe

Ok, I'm LOL right now. DH is really good with writing things and just getting to the point. I could have just written this:
I am so sad that so many of you had such negative experiences with one teaching methodolgy. I want you to know though that through the sharing of your experiences you can help others in getting educated and informed. That through your heartfelt words others can garner information to help them make informed decisions on their own. I am sorry for all that you went through, but I support your desire to heal and learn from your experiences. Through similiar websites we found when looking into WE we received a ton of information that helped us make our own informed and educated decision for our DD as to whether WE was right for her.

Someday I will learn to just get to the point.

Hi Xaloxe. Thanks for your encouragement and sharing your story, too. It sounds like you are a strong, open-minded Mama. Good for you!

Happy weekend,
Bean

[eyeB4U]

How to remain friends

Originally Posted by boobybunny

How about being close friends with a waldorf teacher.

Before she graduated from the program, she was our "nanny" and she is now married to my oldest and dearest friend. The first year she was teaching at Waldorf, she completely poo pooed ALL of our parenting skills. It was really strange, on the one hand she compliments us all the time on how well behaved and great our children are, and the next she is telling me how rewarding my oldest child's completed homework, or chores with video game time is destructive. She is now pregnant with their first child, and has told her husband that their child will not have the thomas trains stuff... too commercial, how leggos will not be allowed because they are evil plastic, and that they will not vax the kiddo. He is a family med doc, and that last one went over like a lead zeppelin. But also the rest are not sitting well with any of us. Leggos are plastic, but the small motor skills, the imagination used is important, not to mention they are fun! Thomas is fun imaginative play with problem solving. (have you ever tried to make a track?) There are countless other examples, these are just what pops into my mind now.

It is almost like she has been brain washed. Seriously, anything but the waldorf way is bad, modern education, modern technology is evil.

Her husband has been a video game FREAK!!! since the early 80's. I do not think it harmed him... he is a very warm and loving person, with a heck of a brain, and well... he made it through med school. He used VG as brain mushing, turning off stress when he needed too, and as a tool to talk to younger patients. HE HAS NOT PLAYED VGs in a year. Yet, when he is at my home, he seeks our oldest out to WATCH him play on his PSP.

Sorry, I am just venting and purging everything I want to say to her, but am afraid it will end our friendship. She has truly changed since becoming a waldorf teacher.

Hello boobybunny, Thanks for sharing your story on this board. I recognize so0 much in your concerns about your friends behaviour. If you want to give more thoughts about your situation, please do so. It really makes me wonder how many people have the same questions about how it is to be friends and then be afraid of a break-up when you don't share the same Waldorf-ideologies in the same way. Because I broke up with some friends indeed and I sometimes feel miserable and guilty about it. Looking foreward to more messages on this topic, Bye Elisabeth

[yaM yaM]

Boobybunny, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. I can so relate to the emotional conflict you express.

Originally Posted by eyeB4U

Because I broke up with some friends indeed and I sometimes feel miserable and guilty about it.

I hear you, Elizabeth.

Yk, I used to feel that way too until I inquired within and noticed that it simply was no longer true for me to live a life that is inspired out of guilt & shame.

And I see that it may very well be true for some others - even, perhaps, dear friends - to live that way (I see Waldorf methodology consistenly-yet-covertly encouraging those two elements as effective and appropriate means to achieve a desired result in childrens' behavior).

And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.

[browneyedsol]

Originally Posted by May May

And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.

This is lovely. Thanks May May.

Xaloxe and others--
There is so much to love about WE. Ofcourse we want to give it a chance. It is unfortunate to me that the movement is not willing to flex more. When I was in graduate school, it was important to me that I research holistic education through a more inclusive lens--not simply learn about holistic education exclusively through an anthroposophical institution. It proved incredibly helpful for me to look into all methodologies that claim to be holistic in approach. The dogma of WE and anthroposophy became painfully clear. I also love Reggio Emilia methods (not available where I live, unfortunately). I also love Enki Education (www.enkieducation.org). I happen to think Enki will become the new Waldorf eventually, because I don't see Waldorf making great enough strides to change for the needs of evolving families of our time. It seems to me, through a decade of inquiry, that holistic minded families are seeking holism, inclusion, diversity, peace, and unity...but won't long be patient with the dogmatic aspects of WE.

[beansavi]

I could not agree with the recent posts more.

I struggle with the lesson that it is up to me to rise above the negative influences that are all around. Going to my local health food store brings up all kinds of flashbacks, anxiety, etc. for me. (Isn't that ironic!)

The Waldorf community had the audacity to publicly state, and claim to know what was in my heart. They told me I was a liar, etc. in reference to my son's molestation and treatment from his teacher. What's more, the school was vain enough and foolish enough to put those statements onto paper, giving me a copy. That's how sure they were they knew my heart. And they were determined to tell me, in writing, what was in my heart.

Counseling has helped me to realize that when I have anxiety driving near the school (down the road from my ancestral home), or run into people in the healthfood store from the school who ignore me, though making eye contact, the negative language in my mind that belittles myself is actually the same language used in the documents given to me from the Waldorf school.

And so, May May's last post speaks to me on a deep level. I continue to choose not to let others' negative behavior silence me or stain the fabric of my daily life.

[browneyedsol]

Bensavi, I don't recall reading that part of your story before. How could anyone possibly assert and define what is in anothers heart, especially without asking? With regard to anthroposophy, what about that Parzival questions: "What ails thee? What brings thee joy?" Perhaps those folks need to go back to their foundation studies.

It is hardly an evolved communication style to make an assumption about what is in someone elses heart and prounounce it a fact. Isn't this large in part what is wrong with the way human beings are treating one another and what keeps us from evolving? I think so.

Back to my ultimate mantra ..::Follow Your Bliss::..

[Jennifer3141]

Thanks for the directions, Bean!

Well, we finished out the year at the new Waldorf preschool. I'm about 80% certain that we won't go back in the fall.

Since leaving school I've realized that the kids really, really love their light up shoes. DD loves to run past our mirrors at night. It helps her get to sleep.

DS is having some Sensory Processsing Disorder stuff and possibly autism. I spoke to one of the teachers about it and she explained that is all a "defect in the angel lobe" of DS' brain. My DH is a medical doctor. Exactly how am I supposed to present THAT theory to him?? I've started DS on the path to a diagnosis because we need help as a family. I understand about following Steiner but HELLO!! We've kind of expanded both our scientific knowledge and medical knowledge since WWII.

DD loves starfall.com. I'm also kind of tired of "hiding" her skills at ASL and beginning reading.

I will miss Waldorf because it has been a very safe place for the kids to play. I feel like I can turn my back without fear that some other kid is going to bite or hit without intervention. I have made some friendships but not too close. I probably have more in common with the moms who drifted away over the year.

I LOVE the art projects. My kids are still playing with the wool butterflies they made 3 weeks ago.

I'm guessing that we'll be too busy with therapies for DS and swimming lessons at the local water park to go back in the fall. And that's really ok with me.

[eyeB4U]

And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.

Dear MaymayThanks and a big hug for your beautifull words.. Someday I also will live and feel that just the way you described...In fact there are good days where I can really can hold on to the sympathy and understanding we once had. And yes maybe one day I will make it up to those who are in my heart. I hope to read more about how to remain friends after Waldorf. Love Elisabeth

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by browneyedsol

How could anyone possibly assert and define what is in anothers heart without asking? To frame it in anthroposophy, what about that Parzival question..."What ails thee? What brings thee joy?" Perhaps those folks need to go back to biography class...

: That struck me as so funny tonight!

.... Aaaaaaaaah. Those strange old days of Waldorf teacher training...and Parcifal class...and Biography class...

How many times AFTER being kicked out of Waldorf have I compared myself to Parcifal: excluded, wandering in the forrest... but not in the sense that Waldorf is King Arthur's court, merrily camping around Brittany, awaiting Parcival's return... nope.

Waldorf is that weird guy who told Percy not to ask any questions.

That's right. I said it.

[BelovedK]

Beanie, you're killing me :