Life After Waldorf ~ A Support Group - Page 3

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by browneyedsol

Bensavi, I don't recall reading that part of your story before. I don't want to stir up cause for you to trudge up anything you'd rather let lie where it is, but I am curious and would like to read a couple of sentences from that letter they sent you (to see just how they peg you in a way that works for them).

I have to admit I got the shakes just thinking about it... but all of the documents, along with my lawyer's, are in the attic tucked away for the day when I bring them out again and go through them with an iron heart.

(What is up with me sounding like some flaky poet tonight?: )

What I can quote from memory went something like this:

We have found your complaints against the Kindergarten teachers to be untrue and unfounded. We are disappointed in the amount of money you have cost the school, causing us to hire a guide from AWSNA to settle this issue. You are on probation as of today and must do the following or your employment will be immediately terminated:

1) Write a letter to Dr. ________ [anthroposophical doctor] apologizing for telling him the reason you brought your son to see him. By telling him the details of what you claim happened to your son [repeated molestation by another student, verbal and emotional abuse by teacher], you put _________'s [teacher] Waldorf career at risk. You must submit your letter to the doctor to us [personnel committee and faculty chair] first, so that we may edit it where necessary.

2) We have found your claims that your son was harmed in any way to be untrue. We have found that your child's experience in this school has been entirely positive.We are disturbed that you would cause so much unfounded trouble in our school. [Several other parents complained their children were molested repeatedly by the same child, yet my son somehow was not and I was lying?]

3) You are hereby required to seek individual counseling for anger management. [I never once yelled, cursed, threatened, behaved beligerently or lied in any way.]

4) You are hereby required to apologize in writing to the Kindergarten teachers for your complaints about your son's treatment. This written apology will be reviewed prior to submittal, with editing and additions as necessary by this committee. [This editing process took SEVEN MONTHS, with my rewriting again and again, down to the smallest of phrases suggested by the faculty chair.]

5) You son will not be allowed in the school for his first grade year, and will only be readmitted to second grade after a review of your case.
This is because you looked in the files of other students. [The first faculty chair ~they switched mid-year~ went in the file cabinet to see if the teachers had reported any incidents in the class like my son's, or if they had even documented my son's molestation. They had not. I was with her, and they changed the details of this event completely.]

6) No more discussion or input will be allowed in reference to this event. Discussing this with anyone will result in immediate termination of employment.



There is more. Just too shaky to go into it now. But it sure does feel good to get it out of my system!

Bean

[browneyedsol]

...eep.

Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.

[browneyedsol]

Originally Posted by beansavi

Waldorf is that weird guy who told Percy not to ask any questions.

That's a fresh approach!

[eyeB4U]

Good grief!!!

Thanks Beth, for being bold and share everything that happened to you and your son. I read how you describe your visits at the organic foodstore and how you cope with specific "looks" recieved from former "Waldorfians" with much interest. When you recieve dissapproval looks, just grab a cabbage, skeeze it firmly and think to yourself: "this cabbage has more sense then you!".

By the way, it was Percivals mother who teached him not to ask too many questions, so he was obidiant and did what mommy told him to. You just hit the nail: by pretending to read your heart they wanted to tell you just to accept everything that was going on even when things were going wrong. Thanks again for sharing, Bye Elisabeth

[Aeress]

I am glad I stumbled by this thread. I am looking at opening a private school that is influenced by waldorf but when the more I read about anthroposothy, I find more questions than answers.


I haven't had an experience with a waldorf school becuase the closest one is an hour away but in my own research I have found concerns.

[Jennifer3141]

Karen! It's so good to see you here!

[Aeress]

Thanks. Would anyone be interested in sharing their concerns with waldorf?

One of my concerns centers around the idea of reading and not encouraging children who can read at an earlier age, if they are ready. Is this an accurate idea? I had heard this from another mom.

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by browneyedsol

Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.

I have thought of storing it somewhere else, too, and that is a good idea. Having it literally hanging over my head (in the attic) is probably breaking some huge feng shui rule!

And, uh, yeah. It is pretty trippy how that letter is burned into my mind so deeply I can pretty much recite it.

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by eyeB4U

Thanks Beth, for being bold and share everything that happened to you and your son. I read how you describe your visits at the organic foodstore and how you cope with specific "looks" recieved from former "Waldorfians" with much interest. When you recieve dissapproval looks, just grab a cabbage, skeeze it firmly and think to yourself: "this cabbage has more sense then you!".

By the way, it was Percivals mother who teached him not to ask too many questions, so he was obidiant and did what mommy told him to. You just hit the nail: by pretending to read your heart they wanted to tell you just to accept everything that was going on even when things were going wrong. Thanks again for sharing, Bye Elisabeth

Thanks so much Elisabeth, you made me giggle with the cabbage thing.

I think Percy's Mom said it first, you are right. But the guy he met and learned to joust from, etc. also reinforced it, didn't he? The whole ethic of "dare not question, just accept everything or you are naughty" idea?

Anyway, yep. I felt like the Waldorfers I knew thought they were reincarnates of the keepers of the Grail (at Munsalvesche Castle-sp?). Steiner said he is the reincarnated Shionatulander... the knight in the story... so I am sure this thought is not far from other Anthros. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just,as usual, trying to make sense of it all.

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by brendon

Thanks. Would anyone be interested in sharing their concerns with waldorf?

One of my concerns centers around the idea of reading and not encouraging children who can read at an earlier age, if they are ready. Is this an accurate idea? I had heard this from another mom.

Brendon, I have experience with teaching reading in Waldorf and in public school... after my kids go to bed tonight I will try and chime in on this issue.

Bean

[browneyedsol]

brendon, reading is not encouraged until grade 1 or 2. In grade 1, children first learn to write letters before reading words. The process of teaching writing before reading is wise in my personal opinion. I have noted over the years that some children are definitely interested and ready to learn sooner than age 7. It was easy for me to subscribe to the "all children..." statements when my oldest was young. He wasn't too interested in desk work until he was 7. We were lucky that his teacher was a Waldorf teacher who was pro-reading sooner than is usual in Waldorf, and he was doing great by the middle of second grade. Steiner did suggest that children are not ready to begin with letters until the change of teeth, but he also mentioned that children should not be abberations of thier culture. Considering the times we now live in, I wonder why more emphasis is not put on the latter statement!? My younger son sits for longer periods of time with ease, and is clearly interested and ready to begin learning letters. He's not quite 6 yet. If you are looking at a Waldorf inspired school, I would say keep looking into it. Waldorf inspired schools may prove much more flexible than AWSNA schools. There is a lot of wisdom in Waldorf perspectives on child development.

Good luck!

[~Kira~]

Hi Karen -


Keeping in mind that all schools may operate differently, the Waldorf school myself and my sister attended taught that children should not be taught to read until all of their baby teeth had fallen out. I had two classmates who told us they were unable to read, when in fact, they were the only two who had been in Waldorf from the beginning and simply had not been taught to read.

I cannot express how frustrating it was to not be allowed to read, to not have books in school, to try to learn French and German without any texts. I'm very very grateful I only went there for one year, since I had so many tutorials as a result of that year, that I know it could have been much more difficult had I been there any longer.

Because I was a strong reader and began reading at an early age, I didn't need any tutorials for English/Reading/Writing, but I did for Math, Socials, and Science.

I hope that might be of some help!


- Kira

[mamaofthree]

I was wondering if I could ask a question...
I have been doing reading on Waldorf for homeschooling, I understand that hsing Waldorf is way different then actually sending your child to a school and teaching at a school (as I can pick and choose what I like pretty much... and I do. LOL Plus I add all sorts of other stuff into the mix) Anywho... my question is this...
Do you all feel that your bad experiences with the schools that you had your children in and or worked in yourself could have also been in another type of school or was the particle experience bad because of the Waldorf infuence (sp sorry) at the school? (Did that make sense??)

Thanks

H

[eyeB4U]

Reincarnation and FAIRY-TALES

Originally Posted by beansavi

Anyway, yep. I felt like the Waldorfers I knew thought they were reincarnates of the keepers of the Grail (at Munsalvesche Castle-sp?). Steiner said he is the reincarnated Shionatulander... the knight in the story... so I am sure this thought is not far from other Anthros. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just,as usual, trying to make sense of it all.

Hello Beth,

When you realize that Percival and all the other persons are in fact romantic characters that never existed.....It's no wonder that you get eerie about collegues who consider themselves to be the reincarnation of a never existing person. The legend of Parcival is very dear to me. A story about how people grow up with their dreams and their idols and how they deal with failure and fortune. As a story the Parcival-saga makes perfect sense, it becomes idiotry if people pretend to be the heir of that legend. It would be the same as somebody was claiming to be the reincarnation of the little Mermaid or Rumpelstilskin.:

When I was abandoning anthroposophy, I became awkward about the "reincarnation" idea. Was it really that interesting to think about and did it really matter or bring convenience to any social and humanistic development??? For me the anwer was NO!
Bye and have a nice weekend! Elisabeth

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

I was wondering if I could ask a question...
I have been doing reading on Waldorf for homeschooling, I understand that hsing Waldorf is way different then actually sending your child to a school and teaching at a school (as I can pick and choose what I like pretty much... and I do. LOL Plus I add all sorts of other stuff into the mix) Anywho... my question is this...
Do you all feel that your bad experiences with the schools that you had your children in and or worked in yourself could have also been in another type of school or was the particle experience bad because of the Waldorf infuence (sp sorry) at the school? (Did that make sense??)

Thanks

H

My story completely hinges on the fact that the offending school was a Waldorf school. Within Waldorf I found a culture that existed inside our larger society and one that was very secretive and dogmatic. As I have mentioned before, the way I was treated -and let's just stick to the professional part for simplicity in this post- the way I was treated as a faculty member was illegal.


A) It is illegal to have knowledge that a child is molesting other children (far beyond normal "sex play") and refuse to call Social Services. It is the law to call them immediately and all teachers are considered "madated reporters".

B) One cannot make up a rule after something happens and say "You broke the new rule...before we made it! So you are punished!". That's illegal.

C) In our society, you cannot "punish" (the school's word) people for nine months day in and day out, and not allow them to be a part of the faculty meetings. That is called "A hostile work environment".

D) It is illegal to literally slander teachers publicly within the school's and larger community. The Waldorf school sent out a memo to the parents that literally contained lies, one saying I left on my own accord because I wanted to stay home and take care of my children.

In a public school there are laws, values, moral guidelines that protect teachers. Although these same laws apply within all schools, public and private, the dynamic within the Waldorf school I worked for was so dysfunctional and secretive that it was like a sticky, confusing spider's web. There is no "National Teacher's Association" or NEA, etc. for Waldorf Teachers---that is a separate entity looking out for teacher rights like you have in public schools.Waldorf schools use mentors within Waldorf and AWSNA.

To summarize with an example of dysfunctional secrecy, the faculty that fired me voted me out. But before the vote is counted, I am still a part of the faculty, right? Not in Waldorf. The vote to fire me was held in secret, in the 2nd grade classroom (not the faculty meeting room), without my knowledge and without two of the five or so teachers being present.

Um. What? This is illegal and unethical.

It is also just plain cheatin'!

Great question, btw. Thanks for asking it. I think it's an important one here.

Bean

[beansavi]

I love the Parcival story, too, Elisabeth. I told someone the other day that I used to identify with the ever-faithful Sigune... but now feel more connected to Cundrie.

Cundrie is (as you know), the wild, hairy woman who demanded Parcival stop wasting his time, acting important and fancy and noble, hanging around the pretty girls in Arthur's Court... he had a job to go finish. He had to finish the job that was not always easy or pretty or noticed publicly...but instead was one of spiritual self discovery...and one in which he truly helped others, rather than just pretending he did.

Ahem. Was that analogy to my feelings about Waldorf a little too obvious?:

Hey Waldorf! I am Cundrie reincarnated. Just kidding!

Originally Posted by eyeB4U

Hello Beth,

When you realize that Percival and all the other persons are in fact romantic characters that never existed.....It's no wonder that you get eerie about collegues who consider themselves to be the reincarnation of a never existing person. The legend of Parcival is very dear to me. A story about how people grow up with their dreams and their idols and how they deal with failure and fortune. As a story the Parcival-saga makes perfect sense, it becomes idiotry if people pretend to be the heir of that legend. It would be the same as somebody was claiming to be the reincarnation of the little Mermaid or Rumpelstilskin.:

When I was abandoning anthroposophy, I became awkward about the "reincarnation" idea. Was it really that interesting to think about and did it really matter or bring convenience to any social and humanistic development??? For me the anwer was NO!
Bye and have a nice weekend! Elisabeth

[beansavi]

Originally Posted by browneyedsol

Bensavi the Feng Shui No-No

You are determined to call me Bensavi, aren't you?

[eyeB4U]

Never shred legal activities

Originally Posted by browneyedsol

Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.

Hello Brownseyedsol
If the shredding contains legal documents that can proof you're family is treated illegally, I would suggest that you treasure them, because it can help in the future. As for the rest of all anthro-clutter I would do the same thing you say: "down the shredder with it"!!!! In my case I sold my Steiner-books and recycled all my study-material because it was of no use anymore for my further future. I also lost dear friends along the way and I feel very sad about that.

I happen to think Enki will become the new Waldorf eventually, because I don't see Waldorf making great enough strides to change for the needs of evolving families of our time. It seems to me, through a decade of inquiry, that holistic minded families are seeking holism, inclusion, diversity, peace, and unity...but won't long be patient with the dogmatic aspects of WE.

I don't understand what you are saying. Enki becomes the new Waldorf?? Can you please explain is Enki in fact a Steiner-bases school?? Bye Elisabeth

[eyeB4U]

Huffing and puffing.....

Originally Posted by beansavi

I love the Parcival story, too, Elisabeth. I told someone the other day that I used to identify with the ever-faithful Sigune... but now feel more connected to Cundrie.

Cundrie is (as you know), the wild, hairy woman who demanded Parcival stop wasting his time, acting important and fancy and noble, hanging around the pretty girls in Arthur's Court... he had a job to go finish. He had to finish the job that was not always easy or pretty or noticed publicly...but instead was one of spiritual self discovery...and one in which he truly helped others, rather than just pretending he did.

Ahem. Was that analogy to my feelings about Waldorf a little too obvious?:

Hey Waldorf! I am Cundrie reincarnated. Just kidding!

Hello beth, That is just soooo funny
As in all good tales you can imagine yourself being one of the figures. That happens when a story becomes a beautifull romance like the Parcival-saga; you can imagine how it feels to be one of the characters. The Cundry character is the most flexible and colourfull figure in this romance. Like to see you in the same way, Beth!! Love Elisabeth

[Tapioca]

Hi.

Long time lurker, first time poster :

Thanks for being so open about the problems with Waldorf. Like another poster, I have noticed that Waldorf seems to have created far stronger 'anti' feelings than other philosophies and that made me very suspicious. Up until that point I had considered it for my child but not anymore. I have directed friends to this thread over the past 2 years who were considering Waldorf for their children and 2 of them have been turned off completely after reading it. Another loves her local school and doesn't feel that it has the same issues as some of yours, but at least she knows what to be aware of now.

And I find it very disturbing that other parents should be privy to personal financial info and have that kind of power and control over other families. VERY disturbing.