The initial talk didn't go well vent/cry - Page 2

[pdx.mothernurture]

(((Hugs))) What a difficult situation...I'm sorry you're going through this.

I agree with what others have said, belittling you, calling you names, and literally threatening to go behind your back and do something that is clearly so upsetting to you you're already in tears is not a discussion. I would go so far as to call it emotionally abusive, and I would confront him with it.

I might even be tempted to say something like...

"It's not okay to talk to me like this. I deserve respect. Our son will be born perfect, no medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision.

The foreskin comes standard; a whole penis is the default.

Unless you can convince me in a calm & compelling manner that circumcision is necessary, it's not getting done, period.

Threatening to go behind my back and perpetuating something I consider to be abuse on our baby is unacceptable. Over. My. Dead. Body.

If you *ever* hurt one of our children like that we'll leave you so fast your head will spin."

Good luck,

Jen

[paquerette]

If he does not change his tune, I don't think I would use the "if you do this, our marriage is over" line. He may just decide that that's the price he's willing to pay and call your bluff. I don't know what the legal situation there would be, but you might consider getting some kind of injunction to stop him if he does not turn around.

[Naless]

Maple Leaf Mama I understand how you feel I was there just 3 months ago.
I have never been a fan of circumcision but always thought I would leave the decision up to my son's father. My first two babies were girls so it was not an issue.

With my son born in March I didn't want to have the circ but his dad wanted him to have it so I relented. My doctor said that babies have to be 28 days old before he will perform the surgery so it was not done in the hospital. I am so glad for that now.

After making the appointment I looked up a video on the internet and actually saw how a circumcision was performed. I was horrified. I had to watch the video 4 times to see it all the way thru. My son was crying in response to the baby on the video crying and his dad came in the room to see what was going on. When I told him I had just watched that (I have no word that fits how I felt at that moment) horrific crime and that it would not be done to my child he responded with "you should not have watched it and he will be circumcised" He also made jokes and said that he would take him without me. At the time that set off my mama bear reactions but in hindsight I can now see that he was not serious and was trying to lighten the mood.

The argument went on for days with me hysterical and badgering him about it and him fighting back and then ignoring me. Whe then came to the agreement that he would watch the video and then we would discuss if DS would be circumcised. For 4 days he "forgot" or "didn't have time to watch" the video.

After talking to a girlfriend about it she gave me the best advice "Leave him alone!!!!" I wanted him to get where I was right now instead of giving him space to think for himself. After 3 days of not mentioning the subject at all I asked him if he had thought about it and he said that he still wanted him circumcised but since I felt so strongly about it he would let me decide.

I'm not saying that this is the exact situation with your DH but just try standing back and giving space for a moment. Just think of what you look like from his perspective, your hovering, checking to see what websites he looked at, and if you are anything like I was, a raving lunatic. He may be reacting to your behavior and feeling attacked and not able to deal with the issue itself.

Also, I would think that a doctor would not perform the procedure if the parents are in disagreement seeing as you can't undo it.

I hope it all works out well with your relationship and son intact.

[Mommiska]

Hi again - it sounds like you're getting a handle on how best to approach your dh with this. The Vulnerability article is such a good one for helping us to understand what is going on for circed men. It makes me so sad when I think what was done to the men of our generation.

I will say this - I've been ranting about the evils of circ on and off for the past 3.5 years to my mom (ever since my ds was born!). Both of my brothers are circed (although my dad is intact), so she would never say anything when I went off about it (that is her way of dealing with my rants when she doesn't agree with me!).

But my brother recently had a son and left him intact (yeah!). And my mom was very pleased, and will now make the odd anti-circ comment.

It just took her a long time to process...I imagine there was some grieving to be done over what she had allowed to happen to her sons, you know?

If this was out of character for your dh, I'm sure he will eventually come around (although I agree with the other posters that it would be good to let him know how his comments made you feel, and that they weren't appropriate).

Hugs to you both.

[AdoptChina]

I have 3 circ'd boys....with the last baby i put my foot down and said no more. DH fought with me but in the end I won--DS4 is intact. Im still very upset that the other boys were circ'd, especially DS3 . My DH even watched DS2s circ and still wanted to do it to DS3 & 4.

Just stay strong and dont let your DH bully you into something you will regret

[vaughnmama]

Originally Posted by Clarinet

Mark all the clothes you bring to the hospital with "do not circumcise" on them. Bring a permanent marker and write it on all the disposable diapers in the room. In the bassinette - if they must take him for any reason at all - make sure it's written in a couple places. Better yet, insist on accompanying him everywhere they say he needs to go.

Put it in a birth plan, copy it and give it to your doctor and every person you come across in the hospital, whether they want to see it or not. Bring a red marker to write "do not circumcise" on the consent form and any other paperwork. I also like the idea of writing it on the baby's clothes and diapers, you can also buy a newborn T-shirt from NoCirc that has the words and symbol big and clear.

Stay strong mama!!! He sounds a lot like my sister's husband, but he eventually, gave in to keeping baby intact.

[vaughnmama]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

(((Hugs))) What a difficult situation...I'm sorry you're going through this.

I agree with what others have said, belittling you, calling you names, and literally threatening to go behind your back and do something that is clearly so upsetting to you you're already in tears is not a discussion. I would go so far as to call it emotionally abusive, and I would confront him with it.

I might even be tempted to say something like...

"It's not okay to talk to me like this. I deserve respect. Our son will be born perfect, no medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision.

The foreskin comes standard; a whole penis is the default.

Unless you can convince me in a calm & compelling manner that circumcision is necessary, it's not getting done, period.

Threatening to go behind my back and perpetuating something I consider to be abuse on our baby is unacceptable. Over. My. Dead. Body.

If you *ever* hurt one of our children like that we'll leave you so fast your head will spin."

Good luck,

Jen

[fishface]

It's NOT cleaner b/c the penis is fused.

Exactly. Would you consider your fingernail beds to be dirty? I know what you're going through. Let him know you are PASSIONATE about this for the safety of your baby. Don't pester him to death but don't give up, either.

He said it was more painfull to have it done as an adult, even though I have read the opposite here.

Right on. Adults get pain meds. Babies get nothing.

[Maple Leaf Mama]

HOLY S***, I thik he has relented!
I'm exhausted tonight, so don't want topush the issue. But we did talk tonight and although he still says he wants him to look like him, it was much more lighthearted and said he would let it go...if he could name him. Then I said, well, nothing hideous.
He joked that he liked Rock.
I don't care at this point-as long as he stays intact!
I'll update tomorrow! But so far, so good for tonight!

[blsilva]

Alright!!! Maybe he just needed to think on it a little.
My dh was super resistant at first, but eventually relented, and now is convinced that circumcision is one of the worst evils of the world. :
You never know, huh?
I'm so glad that he seems more open tonight. I truly hope, for you and yours, that he will continue to be this way.

[fishface]

Woo hoo! What worked for me was sharing info/videos with him, backing off, letting him think, bringing it up again after a good while, rinse and repeat. Of course, every time our conversation evolved a little until he finally gave in. He said he will not put up a fight to circ because he doesn't feel like battling me, but he's a softie of a goober so I know it's REALLY because he doesn't want to slice and dice a baby, with a little bit of "not worth the battle" on the side.

[CaraNicole]

i'm so sorry i went through 5 long months of this argument after ds was born...FINALLY WON!!! dh said almost the same things your dh said...guess it's a guy thing...tell him straight up "over my dead body" when you say this for the ummtenth 1000 time it sinks in...in all honesty my dh finally gave up he saw i was being serious... you'll win momma and don't back down your sons whole intact penis is on the line here! you'll be in my thoughts...

[jesrox]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Mama

HOLY S***, I thik he has relented!
I'm exhausted tonight, so don't want topush the issue. But we did talk tonight and although he still says he wants him to look like him, it was much more lighthearted and said he would let it go...if he could name him. Then I said, well, nothing hideous.
He joked that he liked Rock.
I don't care at this point-as long as he stays intact!
I'll update tomorrow! But so far, so good for tonight!

That is good that he is changing his mind. It took a bit of time for us as well. I was against it from the beginning, and he was for it. Watching the "aftercare" video as part of the parenting classes I dragged him to helped to convince him. I know one thing that hurt my case was that all of his friends with boys got them circ'd. I just held my ground-my baby, no circ!!!
As an adult, they get put under anastesia(spelled badly) and get pain meds after- neither are guarenteed as an infant!! They can't even have tylenol as newborns and people do surgery to them! It boggles the mind.

You are being such a good, strong momma and I know its hard fighting w/ the emotions of pregnancy. hang in there!!!

[Jane]

Maybe he's be reassured that you can think he has a beautiful penis AND that you would never circumsize a child, ever. I think sometimes guys think you are rejecting their penis and that hurts. Whatever doubts you might have about what he might have been/had without circumsicion, this is probably not the time to bring them up.

One teenager I know tells people that being uncircumsized is "good for an extra inch". He knows it's not true, but he's a teenager likes to tweak the circ'ed guys.

[terese17]

After arguingwith my husband for months about it, I finally told him he had a choice. He could have our son cut when he was born, if he didn't want his son to have a mother, as I would kill the person that did it and then go to jail for murder. He chose to keep me around.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Mama

HOLY S***, I thik he has relented!
I'm exhausted tonight, so don't want topush the issue. But we did talk tonight and although he still says he wants him to look like him, it was much more lighthearted and said he would let it go...if he could name him. Then I said, well, nothing hideous.
He joked that he liked Rock.
I don't care at this point-as long as he stays intact!
I'll update tomorrow! But so far, so good for tonight!

Congrats! Early Fall is such a great time to have a baby! All three of mine were born 9/26/01, 10/04/99 and 10/13/97.

[~Nikki~]

Glad to hear he's warming to the concept. In Canada, the circ rate really is super low, as indicated above, and it's getting lower every year. Last I heard, it was down to 11%. I'm not sure if that figure is still accurate. I personally do not know a single baby boy born in the last 5 years who has been circumsized. That's not bad.

If you're having a hospital birth, my experience has been that they don't take a self-written "birth plan", but fill out a form with you that works as one. One of the questions they ask is about circumcision. With my first pregnancy, they asked what our plans were. With the second baby, it wasn't even brought up. Now that it's not covered by Canada's health plan, I think you have to specifically ask for it. So you may want to ask them about that when you do your hospital tour. There's no risk of having it done behind your back in Canada. Since we now have to pay out of pocket for it, there are forms that will need to be filled out, that will no doubt be given to YOU to sign. With both of my births, all of the paperwork was given to me, not my husband.

[catholic74]

I can relate. I am 9 months pregnant and convinced that circumcision is a bad idea, yet my husband is not convinced. I am amazed and yet, relieved to read about the similarities here that I am going through myself. My husband too wouldn't do any research. He would just insist it be done. For most of my pregnancy, we just didn't talk about it. As the day draws near when our son will arrive, I brought it up gently and asked him to do some reseach. He did and even looked at sites I had hoped he would and I am now giving him space to absorb it all and have not brought it up again. I know my husband and I know he will need time to adjust to the idea of not circumcizing and to hopefully come to see why we shouldn't.

I would never say this to him at the moment, but regardless of what he decides, I cannot consent to my son being cut. It just will never happen. Because I feel this way, I'm praying he will come around. We only have a few more weeks to go now!

It's interesting to me as well, how it's the women who pave the way when it comes to certain things and men who are in denial or hide, etc and are always the last to get on board!

Also, of special note, my father is having a really hard time accepting that I don't want to circumcize. I can tell he's really upset about it but doesn't say too much to me as he respects that it's our decision. The decision not to circumcize can really upset a lot of of the family, not just the fathers (my mom doesn't really understand either..she circumcized my brother).

[kyangel80]

Didn't read any of the replies.

Oh, hon, that sounds like a difficult situation. I have a question for you, do you feel strongly enough about non-circing that you would be willing to go against your dh's wishes? If so then I woudn't worry about it any more. After all, they aren't going to be asking your dh if he would like your baby circ'd are they? With all 3 of my hospital births the nursing staff/doctors consulted me for everything, since I was the actual 'patient' to whom the child was born.

In the meantime, just work on discussing it with your dh from time to time. Give him some time to forget about the last discussion and then try to stay calm the next time. Hopefully by the time your little bellydweller is born your dh will be willing to forego the circ and just let your ds decide about rather or not he wants to get circ'd when he get old enough. Remind your dh that circumcision is FOREVER. If you don't circ, your son can always have it done at a later date, if you do circ there's no reversing what has been done.

I hope the two of you resolve this issue and make up quickly.(((((good vibes))))

[myfairbabies]

Originally Posted by Apricot

One teenager I know tells people that being uncircumsized is "good for an extra inch". He knows it's not true, but he's a teenager likes to tweak the circ'ed guys.

Actually, I've heard that men on here have gained length, sometimes more than an inch, when restoring their foreskins. Especially if it was a tight circ, so I wouldn't say that it's untrue.