The initial talk didn't go well vent/cry - Page 3

[eepster]

Originally Posted by catholic74

I can relate. I am 9 months pregnant and convinced that circumcision is a bad idea, yet my husband is not convinced. I am amazed and yet, relieved to read about the similarities here that I am going through myself. My husband too wouldn't do any research. He would just insist it be done. For most of my pregnancy, we just didn't talk about it. As the day draws near when our son will arrive, I brought it up gently and asked him to do some reseach. He did and even looked at sites I had hoped he would and I am now giving him space to absorb it all and have not brought it up again. I know my husband and I know he will need time to adjust to the idea of not circumcizing and to hopefully come to see why we shouldn't.

I would never say this to him at the moment, but regardless of what he decides, I cannot consent to my son being cut. It just will never happen. Because I feel this way, I'm praying he will come around. We only have a few more weeks to go now!

It's interesting to me as well, how it's the women who pave the way when it comes to certain things and men who are in denial or hide, etc and are always the last to get on board!

Also, of special note, my father is having a really hard time accepting that I don't want to circumcize. I can tell he's really upset about it but doesn't say too much to me as he respects that it's our decision. The decision not to circumcize can really upset a lot of of the family, not just the fathers (my mom doesn't really understand either..she circumcized my brother).

to MDC and CAC.

If you need any information or links to help with convincing DH just ask we are here to help.

In the mean time you are the one that has to sign the papers at the hospital, so you can just say "no." Just make sure you say it loudly, and often.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by notyetamommy

Actually, I've heard that men on here have gained length, sometimes more than an inch, when restoring their foreskins. Especially if it was a tight circ, so I wouldn't say that it's untrue.

Yes it probably has quite a bit of truth. However, it is the worst thing to say to a sensitive DH when arguing. It will just make him very defensive.

[myfairbabies]

I wasn't saying that she should use that as an argument, I was just clearing up something apricot said was not true, when it may be. I would never talk about my dh's inadequacies when trying to convince him.

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by catholic74

I can relate. I am 9 months pregnant and convinced that circumcision is a bad idea, yet my husband is not convinced. I am amazed and yet, relieved to read about the similarities here that I am going through myself. My husband too wouldn't do any research. He would just insist it be done. For most of my pregnancy, we just didn't talk about it. As the day draws near when our son will arrive, I brought it up gently and asked him to do some reseach. He did and even looked at sites I had hoped he would and I am now giving him space to absorb it all and have not brought it up again. I know my husband and I know he will need time to adjust to the idea of not circumcizing and to hopefully come to see why we shouldn't.

I would never say this to him at the moment, but regardless of what he decides, I cannot consent to my son being cut. It just will never happen. Because I feel this way, I'm praying he will come around. We only have a few more weeks to go now!

It's interesting to me as well, how it's the women who pave the way when it comes to certain things and men who are in denial or hide, etc and are always the last to get on board!

Also, of special note, my father is having a really hard time accepting that I don't want to circumcize. I can tell he's really upset about it but doesn't say too much to me as he respects that it's our decision. The decision not to circumcize can really upset a lot of of the family, not just the fathers (my mom doesn't really understand either..she circumcized my brother).

Just wanted to say Welcome to MDC and CAC as well!

As eepster said, we are all here to support you in protecting your son. Have you read the 'Vulnerability of Men' article (I linked to it earlier in this thread)? It's very good for helping us women to understand what is going on for the men in our lives when they realise we don't want to circ.

Sounds like you are doing well with your dh...hopefully he is processing things at the moment and will be able to come to terms with his own circ, as well as being able to support you in protecting your son.

Hugs to you both...

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by Quirky

How about just put your foot down? Say, this baby is not being circumcised and that's the end of the discussion. I will not consent, and if you do it without my consent the marriage will be over. I am growing this baby, I am his mother and I will protect him with every fiber of my being. End of story. No more discussion.

You are giving him way too much power in this situation. Take your wind out of his sails. It's not his body, it's not his decision, so he may not decide to cut your son.

ITA!! I haven't had time to read this entire thread, only the first page, but I could have written this post. Hugs to you mama, you are fighting for a very important issue here. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Follow Quirky's advise, seriously!!

[catholic74]

Originally Posted by eepster

to MDC and CAC.

If you need any information or links to help with convincing DH just ask we are here to help.

In the mean time you are the one that has to sign the papers at the hospital, so you can just say "no." Just make sure you say it loudly, and often.

Thanks for the welcome!


We are having a homebirth, so we won't even be in a hospital. We would have to call the hospital, make and appointment and bring him in, all of which would happen over my dead body, of course! We recently discussed whether to have the Vitamin K shot administered and my midwife told me that if a boy is going to be circumcized, he must have the Vitamin K shot. I told my husband this (he has a right to be informed) and he was silent. He is thinking about it I suppose. He knows that if we do not consent to a Vitamin K shot, then we will esentially be passing on the circumcision as well. Anyone have any particular advice/info on the K shot in relation to circumcision? Sorry to get off subject.

[tammyswanson]

Ask him if he had to get his peepee cut right NOW as an adult if he would. I bet he'd say "NO". Then ask him why it's okay to cut a baby's penis?

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by catholic74

Thanks for the welcome!


We are having a homebirth, so we won't even be in a hospital. We would have to call the hospital, make and appointment and bring him in, all of which would happen over my dead body, of course! We recently discussed whether to have the Vitamin K shot administered and my midwife told me that if a boy is going to be circumcized, he must have the Vitamin K shot. I told my husband this (he has a right to be informed) and he was silent. He is thinking about it I suppose. He knows that if we do not consent to a Vitamin K shot, then we will esentially be passing on the circumcision as well. Anyone have any particular advice/info on the K shot in relation to circumcision? Sorry to get off subject.

Well, first you need to decide not to circumcise and then you need to make a separate decision about Vitamin K. I did it with my first, didn't with my second, and may or may not with my third -- hemorraghic disease of the newborn can occur in all different babies, male and female, those born in a hospital and those not, and those cut and those not. Although I don't vaccinate at all, I'm not convinced of the harms of Vitamin K, and the downsides, although rare, of not doing it are usually very serious. I may do oral K this time around, still haven't decided.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by catholic74

Anyone have any particular advice/info on the K shot in relation to circumcision? Sorry to get off subject.

The reason they are related is b/c of uncontrolled bleeding during the circumcision. You could use it to remind him that sometimes healthy baby boy bleed to death during the surgery, many more are weakened by uncontrolled bleeding.

[Margot Adler]

Just a thought: He may need therapy to get through his feelings over this. If he is lashing out and behaving irrationally towards his pregnant wife clearly he has some unresolved issues that you may not be able to help him sort through on his own.
You are right to want to protect your baby. It should be his choice.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Mama

HOLY S***, I thik he has relented!
I'm exhausted tonight, so don't want topush the issue. But we did talk tonight and although he still says he wants him to look like him, it was much more lighthearted and said he would let it go...if he could name him. Then I said, well, nothing hideous.
He joked that he liked Rock.
I don't care at this point-as long as he stays intact!
I'll update tomorrow! But so far, so good for tonight!

Can you trust him, or is he just appeasing you? I wouldn't necessarily trust his change of heart.

I left an ex because he said the things that your dh has been saying. However, luckily I wasn't even pregnant at the time - it was all hypothetical, but it was a dealbreaker for me.

[baybee]

That's great news! I'm betting that if he has had an opening of sanity, he won't go back to the dark side. There are so many things with parenting
that I have been "dead right" about and, then with education, completely
turned around 180 degrees on---vaccinations for one. We have to realize that people can see the light when they get some facts and have a chance to digest the info. Right from your first post, I thought "this is a guy who will come around". After all, he found a good woman like you to mother his children so he's got some smarts

[Maple Leaf Mama]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

Can you trust him, or is he just appeasing you? I wouldn't necessarily trust his change of heart.

Sadly, you're right. We were talking last night about the new Ontario co-sleeping info and how if FIL attacked my choices again I would lose my **** on him (again)
Then I asked if they would be all over us for not circing.
He gave me a scrunched up look like WTH and said --When did I decide it wasn't being done?

I LOST it. I feel duped. I pretty much talked at him and told him his reasons were crap (I was madder than mad) like being cleaner and looking like Daddy (Since he now knows our Dr. take on the situation-and it's not medically necessary)
So now he has to hang on to emotional reasons. STUPID emotional reasons IMO
I again stomped on the looking like Daddy argument and full on said Over my dead body will this be done.
*I* will be the patient-so they will be asking ME for the decision. (If it even comes up at all, since it is an optional procedure) and that I will sharpie the poor kids belly with NO CIRC if I have to. HE cannot sign papers without me-it WILL NOT be done. Then I told him to sleep with the dog and stormed off to bed.
Back to square -well maybe 2 or 3. Not totally starting from scratch, but AAARGH!

I'm printing off all I can find regarding Canada and he WILL be reading it tonight-in prep for seeing our Dr. in the morning.
PLEASE ladies, keep me in your thoughts. I was having palpatations in anger last night.
Why does he have to be so dense and stubborn? Dumb ass man!

[orangefoot]

I don't come here often because it makes me mad but here you go with my two pennies

Keep your foot down Mama and sharpie your little babe from head to foot. And for now sharpie your dh's arms with something like 'I love you, you love me, you love your child: don't hurt him.' or just 'Over my dead body.....'

He is coming from a place of hurt which is why he is finding this hard. My dh is mad with his mum for many reasons but knowing that she asked some-one to snip off the overhang of his foreskin as a preemie baby just takes the biscuit. My dh's hurt is directed outward and he is very very anti-circ; your dh's is still within him and he is trying to build a fortress around it, hence the 'look like me' argument.

It may be that he has to make peace with himself in the months after your baby is born and he will finally come to realise that doing nothing to this perfect child was right. BUT you will have to be strong and make this decision so that he can see the reason later.

And politely - stuff the ILs.

[the_lissa]

What province are you in MLM?

[calngavinsmom]

s Momma. I am so sorry he is doing this to you....especially at such a vulnerable time.

Does your dh not care that the Canadian circ rate is so low and most of the boys your son will grow up with will be left whole? We live in the Niagara region in Ontario and in our experience with family, friends and kids in swimming lesson changerooms, intact is DEFINITELY the majority now. In fact, seeing a circumcised boy somewhere is almost a shock.

I for one would hate to be the one to have to explain to my son why he is missing half of his sexual organ while most of his friends are not. There would just be nothing you could say to justify it when it is so blatently clear that it is totally unnecessary.

My dh is circumcised and our sons are intact. They are 5 and 2 and the only time it has ever come up is when my older guy retracted himself for the first time at age 4. He said look Mom, and showed me he could retract, and then he said, rather nonemotionally, hey, that looks like Daddys.

No further comments, no questions nothing. Thats how big of a deal it is to "not match" for a child. Men who want to have their sons look like them are not doing it for the well being of their sons, like they might try to convince themselves and others. The are doing it to reassure themselves that circumcised is "THE" way to be. The right way, the best way, the only way.

I hope for your sake, your dh comes around soon.

Take care,
Tara

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by InDaPhunk

Poor Dh. Poor you .

Give him some space and time to absorb all of this. Think how emotional you feel about it and know that even if he doesn't show it the same way that he's feeling just as emotional as you are, except the issue isn't just about a DS, it's about him. His brain is whirling right now. I really do feel for him, he's grasping at straws. I assume he doesn't normally make fun of you and minimize your thoughts and feelings etc (?). I assume that's atypical behavior for him ? It's so personal for him and I assume he felt backed into a corner (because he probably knows deep down that you're right about this because you're right about so many things due to research etc) and he dealt with it the only way he knew how without caving outright.

When he said you were hovering....I think that's actually a good thing because it means he's really thinking this over and giving it some intense thought and he needed some space to do that. He was probably afraid of how he'd react to the video or the feelings it might bring up. I mean, this was done to him, too. He probably feels that you expect him to go from thinking RIC is great (his penis is great) to thinking it's terrible (his penis is terrible and you don't like it and maybe it even makes him feel like he doesn't like his penis and so what does that say about him as a man?) in one conversation and that's just asking a lot of him.

When I approached my DH I took it sllllllloooooooowly. Gave lots of time for things to sink in. ITA with reading vunerability of men if you haven't yet. It will help you a lot. Give you DH time to think about things....weeks or months if you have it. If not, put your foot down and hope that he comes around.

Your poor DH. It makes me cry to think of what was done to our men.

: Yes yes yes! Maple Leaf Momma we had similar types of discussions before DD was born. DH was definitly grasping at straws. We were both actually relieved when DD was a girl because it had been such a tense issue. Even if they won't admit it (my dh won't) men are traumatized by their circs and having to discuss it is painful for them. With this pregnancy when DH started talking about having another baby I drew the line then. I told him I was not going to have another baby if he wanted to circ. He consented to leave a son intact and we haven't discussed it again. You have gotten good advice so far. Try to be sensative to him this is something he may not have had to confront.

ETA: The threatening to circ when you weren't looking thing kind of bothers me. Why would your DH threaten to do something you were so adamently against that did not involve your child's immediate health? Did he ever say?

[jessjgh1]

Personally, I really think he is just being silly and not thinking. Maybe it is something about pregnancy too that just creates these conflicts at times.

Don't back down, but I'd have to guess your dh realized you really were serious and hopefully is smart enough to think about the issue a bit before dismissing it.

It is so hard when things are stressful during pregnancy, but don't let him use that as an excuse either. Your feelings and instincts are backed up by logic science and biology (as in biological norm IS intact).

Jessica

[nd_deadhead]

I'm so sorry.

Tell him if he wants his penis to match the baby's, you expect him to shave his pubic hair and pack ice in his shorts until the baby hits puberty.

[carriebft]

You could try telling about our fam:

My husband has mongolian birth marks on his back (dark blue birth marks that look like bruises). With your husband's logic, I should beat my son a little so that their backs match!