THE Adrenal Fatigue Thread - Page 102

[tanyalynn]

I'm guessing it's the DHEA, take a look at these charts....

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%204.html

DHEA in stage 4 is lower than it is in stage 5, and then it keeps going up for stage 6 and crashes for stage 7. That said, your cortisol looks much more stage 5-ish, and maybe that's a more accurate evaluation for you. Either way, I think the biggest value you get from this is a baseline, and then you can work on improvements and see which way things go. Maybe as you feel better, you'll show up in stage 6, or maybe you'll show up in stage 4. I am left with this, anyway, in understanding DH's results, because he's also right on the line between 5 and 7 but without a real score. And his cortisol was always just a bit depressed, except for scoring 1 at midnight, and that's just odd. So I have to think that there's individual transition time from one stage to another, rather than abrupt breaks the way labelling this into 7 stages would lead us to believe.

[Metasequoia]

Interesting about the graphs. I've tested 3 years in a row now & the first two years I was in zone 7. This year, I only tested cortisol to save money so I didn't get a DHEA number & no graph. Next year I'm definitely doing the whole ASI because I love to see where I've moved on the graph.

[tanyalynn]

Meta, from the last page (but I think we cross-posted at one point), have you had your vitD tested? I thought you were pretty good, right? Because I hear body aches can be related to low vitamin D (though I'm not sure how to define good levels, I've read >50 and sometimes even >80!).

[Metasequoia]

It was 36 in January, but that was by Quest, so I need to lower that by (how much? 20-30%, right?) After that, I started supping additional D drops along with the CLO. Now I'm in the sun daily without sunscreen & minimal clothing. I have an Rx to get it tested, just haven't done so yet. I laid off the D & really need to stick with it. I get on a roll with giving us our supps every day for a while & then I fall off the wagon.

I read an interesting post in the CFS thread by sbgrace. My ND has mentioned mitochondrial dysfunction to me over the past couple of years but he said it's expensive to test. I think I'd like to play around with CoQ10, L-carnitine & D-ribose to see what happens. The book I read when my dad was having his heart problems talked a lot about the combo of those supps.

[twinkletoesmomma]

talked to my dr and he said that the phase/zone is determined by DHEA and the average of the 2 middle of the day (noon and 4 pm) cortisol readings. Since my levels are so high in the middle of the night, am I as bad off as what the paper says--or is that the trouble (that my days and nights are mixed up)?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by twinkletoesmomma

talked to my dr and he said that the phase/zone is determined by DHEA and the average of the 2 middle of the day (noon and 4 pm) cortisol readings. Since my levels are so high in the middle of the night, am I as bad off as what the paper says--or is that the trouble (that my days and nights are mixed up)?

The cortisol pattern looks really phase 5-ish to me, but the midday numbers are more depressed than most people, and I'm guessing that combined with the DHEA made you mathemetically phase 7. But the cortisol shape isn't phase 6 or 7. The U-shaped cortisol (higher morning than midday, and then elevated above healthy people at night) is how phase 5 looks.

[dianna11]

I'm so glad this thread is here!! I just got my saliva test back, and my naturopath has said that I'm way past adrenal fatigue, to total adrenal blowout (not a medical term, she has just never seen numbers this low).

She is going to start supplementing me on Thorne Cortrex, a bovine adrenal supplement, and a few other things.

I'm curious what happens - what changes you would notice once this therapy is under way? Hopefully, I will start to feel better, but I've been feeling cruddy for so long that I can't imagine life without low energy and all the other fun stuff we all deal with here.

For those with low to barely existent cortisol, how soon did you notice a difference, and what did you notice?

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by dianna11

I'm curious what happens - what changes you would notice once this therapy is under way?

<snip>

For those with low to barely existent cortisol, how soon did you notice a difference, and what did you notice?

What are your major complaints? The very first noticeable change for me was loss of anxiety (which was *awful* before I started healing.) It took quite a few months & I didn't notice right away. I was with a friend who mentioned her anxiety was really bad & that's when it hit me, I no longer had anxiety!

My biggest complaints are muscle pain & brain fog - and fatigue. The brain fog is MUCH better when I take my pregnenolone, but I've been bad about taking it lately (I think I'm out of it, actually.) However; I've discovered that eating raw liver gives me a strong mental & physical boost & that has been my healing aid of choice.

My cortisol was reeeeaally low. In 2007 I was in stage 7 (my results are on the first page of this thread.) In 2008, I was still in stage 7, but had moved closer to stage 5 & my DHEA rose. I eliminated gluten & managed to put on some weight & have zero PMS & a very mild period - so I think that helped as well. I didn't do a full ASI this year (2009) so I don't know what stage I'm in because I didn't do DHEA. I'll do a full ASI late this winter.

Oh, I must be feeling somewhat better because I joined the Y & have been working out quite a bit. I also get a great boost from that.

Another noticeable difference for me was blood sugar. I used to get terribly jittery, heart palps, dizzy, etc & I'm much better now. I also used to feel so dizzy when standing up & I rarely notice that anymore.

I do notice that if I stay up late at night, I pay for it for literally 3-4 days. One night of staying up until 1am & I feel physically awful for most of a week.

[subtlycrunchy]

From a health newsletter I receive, it appears Women to Women is starting an adrenal healing program. Anyone trying it? I found this symptom quiz/profile on the site -- Adrenal Health Profile and am crious - I've read all the articles there for years, but have not done the program.

[jaimrene]

I have been reading this thread because my doc says that I have AD. He is wanting to put me on 5mg of Cortef 4 times a day. My concern is that I am breastfeeding a 2.5 year old and a 4 month old. I haven't been able to find much information at all on Cortef at a low dose and BFing safety. I have just seen the FDA 'class C' rating stated over and over. Any information would be great! BTW, this thread has been so very helpful! Thanks

[mom61508]

Hellloooo ladies! I've read thru about 10 pages but with a 13 month old walkig around there's NO WAY to get thru all theses pages!!!!!!

Can someone direct me to a link with recommended supps for adrenal fatigue while bf? I actually had a consult with Dr. Lam and he said it seems I have a mild case.(haven't done a saliva test) I wasn't crazy about what he recommended it was synthetic...I'm looking for pure supps. I'm also hypothyroid with Hashis If that matters.
Thanks Jada

[mom61508]

Originally Posted by twinkletoesmomma

I hope that you all don't mind me joining you. I've been reading through this thread over the last few weeks. it has proved very helpful.

I had an ASI test done through Diagnos-Tech a few weeks ago, and got the results. Unfortunately, I happened to do it on a very good day, so who knows what it would really be. My main problem (other than no energy) is insomnia. I haven't slept well since February....like only 2 times a week. I have 4 little kids, and I need to get better so I can be a mommy to them. poor things!
Cortisol:
Morning-- 14 normal (13-24)
noon --1* Depressed (5-10)
afternoon-- 2 Depressed (3-8)
midnight -- 5 Elevated (1-4)

burden 22 (23-42)

DHEA 3 borderline (3-10)

Zone 7 Adrenal Fatigue

I also learned that I was sensitive to gluten....total shock. I've never had any symptoms before. praying this one corrects itself once my adrenals heal. I like my homemade whole wheat bread!


Here is my question. How do they figure out the cortisol-dhea correlation? Is it the lowest amount of cortisol during the day only? My little marker is right on the line between a zone 7 and zone 5 (although they put me in zone 7). I'm wondering though if I am really closer to a zone 5 since I have an only slightly lower cortisol burden and the whole insomnia thing.

I'm taking seriphos at night and at least I'm calm now if I don't sleep! before I was having heart racing and panicky feelings. Is there anything else I could try to sleep? I am going to try some honey as soon as I get some good kind. would magnesium help? I tried melatonin and it did nothing, but maybe combined with the seriphos to keep me calm it would help. any advice or tips would help greatly.

thanks so much.

Did you test positive for gluten antibodies? My doc said to get off gluten but didn't give me a reason. I have no symptoms either.

[dannic]

Hi. I guess I belong here. subbing!

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by mom61508

Hellloooo ladies! I've read thru about 10 pages but with a 13 month old walkig around there's NO WAY to get thru all theses pages!!!!!!

Can someone direct me to a link with recommended supps for adrenal fatigue while bf? I actually had a consult with Dr. Lam and he said it seems I have a mild case.(haven't done a saliva test) I wasn't crazy about what he recommended it was synthetic...I'm looking for pure supps. I'm also hypothyroid with Hashis If that matters.
Thanks Jada

It matters in the sense that you can't properly treat your Hashi's until your Adrenal Fatigue has been addressed.
Re: your gluten comment above this one, it's strongly recommended that anyone with an autoimmune disorder s/a Hashimoto's go off of gluten as it's been shown to exacerbate autoimmune conditions.
I have no link, but hopefully someone else will.

[Theloose]

For nutrients, I'm having a lot of success with pantothenic acid (b5) (1000mg), b6 (200mg, now 50mg), and magnesium (800mg). vitamin c and an additional b complex are really useful as well. I was trying to do all food sources, but my nutritionist pushed me to at least try the high dose supplements. They've made a world of difference! Though to be honest, I haven't much looked into food based supps because dd reacts to so many things, it's hard to find a safe one...

[ChristieB]

I'm so glad there was a discussion here about iron deficiency awhile back. And I'm also glad Meta has been talking about the raw liver lately. I had seen that iron could cause hair loss, but I figured with my diet there was no way I was deficient. Then I saw so much talk about it, so I asked my dr. to test me. She said that while she was at it, she'd test my B-12, too. Well, my iron was fine. (What's the difference between iron and ferritin? -- My iron was high, but my ferritin was toward the low side of the range.) But my B-12 was low. 342. Not at a deficiency state yet, well on my way. Especially since it had dropped 240 in the last 3 yrs.

Anyway, I've been supplementing orally, and seeing no real change (probably in part because I'm impatient and want results NOW, as my 2 yo would say). So I decided to add raw beef liver, as I was told that it was a good way to bring up B-12 levels. Almost immediately, I started having more energy. It's wonderful! I pop about 8-12 large capsule-sized pieces 2-3 times per day. I'm also continuing to supplement the B-12. My dr. will check my levels again in 2-3 weeks (that will be about 2 months of supplementation) to make sure my levels are coming up. If not then we'll start injections. But I'll probably keep taking the liver, because I suspect that it's more than just the B-12 that's helping me.

I'm so glad I follow this thread (as much as I can, anyway). Otherwise I might not be starting to feel better.

[Theloose]

What form of B12 are you using? Cyanocobalamin isn't well utilized, and sublingual is easiest to absorb. If you've been eating meat but are still low on B12, I'd also look for a zinc deficiency - does eating beets turn your pee pink? You can also buy zinc sulfate and do a taste test for a more 'official' test.
www.detoxpuzzle.com/b12.php

[Dillpicklechip]

Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My husband and I make stuff at home and sell it on Etsy, and while it's nice that the business is going well, I feel way too busy and stressed out about it on a regular basis. I wish we could just quit, but we can't be cause we have so much invested into tools and materials.

Yesterday I felt like I was going insane because we have three wholesale orders to do at once. And my four year old just broke his arm, and we're having problems with our ten year old, and the house is a wreck...

*sigh*

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Dillpicklechip

Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My husband and I make stuff at home and sell it on Etsy, and while it's nice that the business is going well, I feel way too busy and stressed out about it on a regular basis. I wish we could just quit, but we can't be cause we have so much invested into tools and materials.

Yesterday I felt like I was going insane because we have three wholesale orders to do at once. And my four year old just broke his arm, and we're having problems with our ten year old, and the house is a wreck...

*sigh*

I'm sorry things are so rough right now.
I completely understand about not being able to reduce stress. Most of my stress comes from sources I cannot control unless I ban them from my life- such as my family. It's hard not to be stressed when your family is crazy.
The big thing for me isn't so much reducing stress as managing it. I notice a HUGE difference when I get my meditation sessions in during the day. It's even better when I manage to do some yoga as well (though some people can't handle ANY exercise).

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by Dillpicklechip

Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My biggest motivator to stay on my adrenal support nutrients is that it makes me *not* stress about all the stupid stuff. If I start nagging dh, or if I feel myself freaking out over *anything at all* it's time for me to reassess my supplements. And then when I get it right, in a day or so, I'm back to my laid back, not stressed self.