THE Adrenal Fatigue Thread - Page 111

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

Now that I typed that out...I wonder if it's because Dd1 got all of my toxins? She so often ends up with yeast infections, I wonder if she has some toxicity issues which are affecting her adrenals.

I've never done any proactive detoxing - how can I gently detox Dd1? Cilantro? Kombucha? Vitamin C?

Cilantro and kombucha both mobilize more than they can excrete on their own. I'd add nutrients first and then think about that type of stuff. Do you have funds for one hair test? About $85-ish from Doctor's Data, helps both with seeing some minerals as high or low (cal, mag, iodine, selenium, lots of good stuff) plus whether any heavy metals are high enough to be problematic. Vitamin C is good for adrenals anyway, separate from toxins, so that's a win.

Look into folate, and a) how much y'all's diet has on an ongoing basis, and b) whether you've got family health indicators that you may need more folate than most folks. Magnesium's almost always a winner, even though you surely eat more than most people, long-term deficiencies can take quite a while to catch up with, and if you have detoxification issues (low-level or otherwise) you may need more mag while you're doing that. Some folks use supps, some do epsom salts baths, some do both.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php
and the intro page here....
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/

[Metasequoia]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I totally hear you on stress keeping you from seeing progress with your adrenals, Meta. In the last 3 years, I had a miscarriage, found out my foster-sister died, had my granny die, then my dad, then my best (local) friend committed suicide, dealing with immigration, my uncle died, another friend committed suicide while his wife was pregnant with twins, my foster-mom died, got diagnosed with Hashimoto's, got pregnant with and had ds2, found out about DS1's food allergies so major diet overhaul, moved 3 times then had an unexpected and very difficult pregnancy (and now a 3 mo)... I'm sure I'm missing something. Because, you know... that's not enough there.
Also, have you considered zinc for your DD's nail biting? In what I've been learning over in Allergies, zinc is often mentioned for nail biting... And if you suspect heavy metals to begin with, then it's double the reason to consider supping her with zinc.

Wow, that's A LOT! I think I'd be dead if I'd gone through that. My stress that summer right after Ds was born is what sent my adrenals down the tubes. If they'd been strong enough to begin with, perhaps I could have handled that stress. Thank goodness we know about healing...

I'll look into zinc. I take it, but I don't know if it's a good form. Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Cilantro and kombucha both mobilize more than they can excrete on their own. I'd add nutrients first and then think about that type of stuff. Do you have funds for one hair test? About $85-ish from Doctor's Data, helps both with seeing some minerals as high or low (cal, mag, iodine, selenium, lots of good stuff) plus whether any heavy metals are high enough to be problematic. Vitamin C is good for adrenals anyway, separate from toxins, so that's a win.

Look into folate, and a) how much y'all's diet has on an ongoing basis, and b) whether you've got family health indicators that you may need more folate than most folks. Magnesium's almost always a winner, even though you surely eat more than most people, long-term deficiencies can take quite a while to catch up with, and if you have detoxification issues (low-level or otherwise) you may need more mag while you're doing that. Some folks use supps, some do epsom salts baths, some do both.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php
and the intro page here....
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/

I should be getting ready to run out the door, but I have to come back to this with more time. I'd LOVE to do the hair test for each of us, at least Dd1 & myself for now. Thank you!!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

I should be getting ready to run out the door, but I have to come back to this with more time. I'd LOVE to do the hair test for each of us, at least Dd1 & myself for now. Thank you!!

The 2nd post down on this page discusses which test I think it's best to order. The thread is about mercury so you can probably just skim if you're interested, but as long as mercury's not an issue, you'll get useful info on mineral levels (mag and zinc can show really elevated when they're actually low, so asking for thoughts on the results may be helpful) and any elevated metals should be accurate. Some of the ratios for basic stuff like sodium, potassium, mag and cal can help show thyroid and adrenal issues when they're in their early stages (or they can show that they're really, really severe), Cutler's written a book on hair test interpretation (called Hair Test Interpretation) but at least a couple people in the Allergies forum have copies if you want to ask for thoughts.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30

[WuWei]

JR, you forgot the house negotiations and some car issues, iirc. And your mother!! (it is a marvel that you are still sane AND making three (5?) week menus for your family with all of their allergy issues!)

But you are an Amazing Woman!!


Pat

[Vaquitita]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Personally, I was more concerned about what effect my adrenal fatigue would have on the baby than vice versa since the baby's adrenals take much of the load off of mom's in the last trimester, often resulting in an infant born with adrenal fatigue...

i didn't know this. i don't think my children show signs of AF. no anxiety/nervousness. they both are allergic to cow milk, but not severely. which was not unexpected since their father was allergic to milk as a child. they can eat goat milk with no problems. we had no thrush, no yeast rashes. the only other issue dd has is teething. she didn't get her first tooth till 19mo, and now at 24 mo still only has 8 teeth. this does worry me, but i just haven't been able to handle researching a possible cause.

i listed my situation as starting back with birth of my first baby, but i didn't feel stressed until after the birth of my second baby. the elements that would lead to my later stress were there, but i was handling it ok. i was getting lots of sleep back then too, i was laid off the same week i found out i was pregnant again which was a blessing. i was eating a good TF diet too. I didn't know to support my adrenals specifically, but was getting lots of b vitamins and salt. and joy definitely outweighed stress until a couple months after dd was born. that's when ds started fighting his naps. and dd would get fussy cause it took so long to get him asleep. naptime became VERY stressful. taking rescue remedy helped, made it so i could hold on and get through it. though once he was asleep, i'd go devour something sugary. after a few months-six months of that i stopped trying to have him take a nap. which was nice that he would then sleep 7pm to 8am, but made for a tiring afternoon for me because i could not nap and i needed to.

sorry that was so long, i'm trying to talk it out, figure it out.

[mamameliaISback]

hi all

mind if i join in? i think i may have some adrenal insufficiency. a little background story:
i first noticed that i was feeling "not my usual" self following major surgery in 2000. i was 95lbs as it was and was put on a puree foods diet for two months following. 2 weeks after my surgery i also foolishly embarked on a full time university degree. i started to have chronic headaches, no doubt from the lack of nourishing food and heavy load. it was so bad my lecturers made plenty of exeptions for me when it came to assignments and exams and i asked to take the following semester off. it didn't do much, i was still extremely tired and run down. fast forward to the following year - PMS happens for the first time, migraines more frequent, am anemic etc and it continues with many brush offs from the medical profession as to that's how things are. fast forward to the next year, dh and i get married. stress reached a very high level, tried to kill myself at one point and i cant remember over what now (probably over how i wasn't ever able to do much without feeling like i was going to collapse). dh takes me to the hospital. fast forward to the following year, i have a very traumatic miscarriage that totally tore me down.. 2 months later i end up having the epstein-barr virus and it went undetected for two weeks as a throat infection in which i was given copius amounts of antibiotics. ended up in hospital on a drip because i hadn't been able to drink anything in 24 hours. 3 weeks later, i find out i am pregnant with dd1. her pregnancy was very, very difficult and stressful. i was losing amnio fluid and was on strict bed rest for over half of the pregnancy. give birth, severe PPD sets in. at 6 months PP i was suicidal again. dd NEVER slept in the day and only slept 20 mins tops (sometimes she'd wake up once every 40 minutes) every single night. i was becoming physcotic, hallucinating non a few occassions from the sheer exhaustion. never recieved treatment or help in any shape or form. my dh couldn't understand what the heck was going on, he just went to work, came home, put dd to sleep, made something to eat and went to bed. i spent most everyday crying and staring at the wall. 2y3m later, dd2 comes along (i had still been breastfeeding dd#1 up to this point). mild PPD sets in. 2 months later my dad dies unexpectedly. anxiety starts to get worse, PPD from dd#1 still not resolved. i noticed if i would drink coffee just once or eat something sugary, within a few hours i'd have a very sore throat and my body would be even more run down. breastfeeding was particularly hard on me and my dd#1 used to nurse all day long. i was constantly dizzy, light headed, run down..
2y4m later dd#3 comes along. started to develop ectopic beats, lot of chest pain, wierd headaches.. dd#3 doesn't like to sleep either (she is up every 60 mins) and nurses all day too. started to have constant panic attacks in may when we had to find a place to move to and i developed a diff kind of headache they thought may have been an aneurysm.. my anxiety was.. i cant even explain.
anxiety is at an all time high. most days i cant function as i should. we wake up late, i still feel the need to sleep in the day for 3-4 hours but can't. i only have energy following a long nap for the first hour or so, then i start to almost drop off again soon after. i'm constantly dizzy and light headed, i am constantly anxious.. and i spend about 13 hours awake and even with a nap, i'm only energetic for maybe 1-2 hours in total. i can barely do anything around the house.
had some blood tests done recently, thyroid was normal but cholesterol and vit d were very low (total chol only 105).
i can't have any sugar without feeling a lot worse.. it seems like i need protein and fat all day only. even fruit sugar is not working out anymore. oh and i need to eat all the time, like once every hour otherwise the dizzyness gets worse.

i don't know where to begin on my search. i've been told its all in my head or its all due to the anxiety. anyone have any ideas? similar experiences? and if you've read this all, thank you so much.

[mamameliaISback]

oh i should add that almost any exertion will leave me with a headache and dizziness that is worse than the usual. i also still suffer from migraines.

[lil_miss_understood]

You're right, Pat, I did forget the house negotiations (and the house itself! Oy vey!)
mamaameliaISback, I had similar experiences to the daughter who wouldn't sleep with DS1 and I have to ask, have you ever had her tested for food intolerance or allergies? Also, what you're experiencing sounds like possible insulin resistance. Have you had your vitamin D levels tested? From everything you've described, I would hazard to say you would really benefit from adrenal support- b vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin D at the least. whoMe may suggest others and, of course, WuWei will suggest liver and ferments. We each have our own way.

[mamameliaISback]

thanks jacqueline... she is off dairy and gluten.. i am too..
yes i had vit d tested, it was quite low.. it has been low for almost 5 years.. they said my blood sugars came back fine.. so im not sure about insulin resistance.. but i will look into it, thanks.

[bluets]

here's an interesting article abotu adrenal fatigue (in chickens) (and it is in my work's realm of expertise too, so i can justify a deeper read):

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/10/430

a synopsis - i haven't had time to critique the paper so this is a quick summary:

the test birds were injected with ACTH (Adrenocortotropic hormone). adrenal glands removed and examined for their response. (yes, all birds were sacrificed for this experiment - there's no way it can be done without sacrificing the animal)

treated animals ended up with significantly higher plasma corticosterone levels yet they were able to divide the treated animals into 2 subgroups, 1 with a high CORT response and 1 with a low CORT response.

for gene response, they made 2 types of comparisons: control vs high CORT (treated animals with high corticosterone response); high CORT vs low CORT

they found 134 genes(*) had different responses in the control/high CORT comparison, and only 4 genes with different responses in the high CORT/low CORT comparison. only 1 gene was shared between these 2 comparisons (this gene might be worthwhile doing a followup study for exact biochemical function)

apparently, many of those genes identified are important in the steroid hormone pathway. unfortunately many of the genes have unknown function (this is true many genomes as well) - so the investigators must now do fine-tuned biochemical work if they want to identify the function of the genes of interest.

the reference list should provide a listing of suitable starting set of references for those who want to do more reading about the published scientific work on adrenal function.

(*) these aren't full genes, they are technically only bits of genes, so called "transcripts" in the article

[mom61508]

I posted this already but wanted to post here since this may be adrenal or thyroid related. I'm having heart pounding at night. Not a fast heart rate but I can feel every beat in my throat and head. It's very uncomfortable.

Any ideas?

[MyLittleWonders]

I'm posting my blood test results (it took forever and thank goodness I knew better than to just accept their "your levels are all within the normal range" crud : and had them mail me a copy). I'm already supp'ing vitamin D (6000 IU a day), but need help with the ferritin/iron issues and if I should do anything about the estrogen/progesterone stuff. (I'll probably also post on the allergy thread too.)

Vit D: 37 ng/mL (LabCorp did not do the testing though, so from everything I've read, I need to divide by 1.3 to get a more accurate level)
Adjusted: 28.43 ng/mL - range "insufficiency: 20-29 ng/mL"

Ferritin: 13 ng/mL - reference 10-291 ng/mL
Something tells me, I'm really, really low.

TSH: 1.048 uIU/mL - reference 0.350-5.500 uIU/mL
I thought she ordered a full panel. Obviously not. Though, even with all those number, I probably would choose not to treat my thyroid at this point. According to the lab sheet, if the result is low, it tends to mean hyperthyroid; if it is high, it's hypothyroid. That is interesting simply because I present with hypothyroid symptoms.

Estrodiol: 200 pg/mL - range (luteal phase, based on the draw) 22-256 pg/mL
I've suspected estrogen dominance for a while and take supplements to keep from it taking over (I can tell when I don't take them too). This number seems really high (esp. when compared to the progesterone level).

Progesterone: 11.8 ng/mL - range (luteal phase) 3.3-25.6 ng/mL
Again, with the estrogen being so high (almost at the top), and this being at least than 50% of "normal range", I'm thinking estrogen dominance is really strong.

I'm wondering what I do for the ferritin levels - what is the best supplement to take for iron? And, do I address the progesterone/estrogen stuff? Right now I take D-Glucarate to keep me from having too many estrogen-dominant issues (though it doesn't affect the mood-related stuff: PMS, moodiness, etc.). I've tried DHEA and it totally screwed me up (I think it only worsened the estrogen dominance. Does anyone have experience with pregnenolone? Would that be something to look into for balancing it all out?

I have a feeling that aside from getting another blood test next year, my ob/gyn won't be too much of a help in treating this. I don't want to go with actual hormone therapy if I don't have to. But, I'm thinking correcting the imbalances and also upping my iron stores will help me feel tremendously better. (And will probably help my adrenals heal too.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders

I'm wondering what I do for the ferritin levels - what is the best supplement to take for iron?

LIVER!! :::


Pat

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by WuWei

LIVER!! :::


Pat

see her response in chat.
nice to have the big guns back me up though.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by WuWei

LIVER!! :::


Pat

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

see her response in chat.
nice to have the big guns back me up though.

!!!!!!!

[mom61508]

Is canary club the way to go for an adrenal saliva test? If so which one?

Basic adrenal and reproductive $99 but only test one sample of DHEA and cortisol plus hormones
Advanced adrenal and reproductive $159 test four samples of DHEA and cortisol plus hormones



I couldn't figure out how to order from diagnostics tech

[mom61508]

[tanyalynn]

A year ago we ordered from Canary club, a 4x/day test that was about $100. Let me see if I can figure out which one...

As far as I can tell, he got what they're labelling as the Advanced Adrenal & Reproductive test kit, which is a bummer because I'm pretty sure it was just under $100 in Aug08, but now it's listed at $159.

eta: I don't know of other places to order your own 4x/day saliva test, but with such a big price increase, I'd probably start searching around. I wonder if Direct Lab Services has something like this? DLS is another big place to order your own testing.

eta2: I was curious, I see a few things at DLS that test similar stuff (but a lot that are just 1x/day for cortisol as well) but they're all a bit more expensive.

[mom61508]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

A year ago we ordered from Canary club, a 4x/day test that was about $100. Let me see if I can figure out which one...

As far as I can tell, he got what they're labelling as the Advanced Adrenal & Reproductive test kit, which is a bummer because I'm pretty sure it was just under $100 in Aug08, but now it's listed at $159.

eta: I don't know of other places to order your own 4x/day saliva test, but with such a big price increase, I'd probably start searching around. I wonder if Direct Lab Services has something like this? DLS is another big place to order your own testing.

Thank you Tanya. Maybe I will check with my ND to see what she uses

[linguistmama]

If I decide to switch to liver for b vitamins and zinc etc how much would be a good amount each day? It's $10 lb here and I'm wondering how much I'd have to eat to get enough benefits since I have adrenal and thyroid issues. Right now I'm taking this b-complex and am wondering if I would absorb more from liver and not need as high a level of the individual vitamins? That's already the theory I'm going on with the "whole food" vitamins as opposed to synthetic.

Looking at the whfoods website it seems like I'd need 4 oz per day which we couldn't afford, 2 oz a day would be fine if I can then eat a little less meat.