in what way does a vaccin damage immune system?

[wobbema]

... and in which way can I boost my DS's immune system?
he's had DKTP, whooping cough, HIB, Hep B and Pneu 3 times so far. I'm thinking of stopping here / delaying
I think I want to continu with DKTP only, and skipp MMR

So who's got a link for me or info about how our immune system works?
what happened to him so far?
what happens when kids get a live vaccin?
what happens when they get an illness the natural way?

[Mirzam]

Here is an article by Hilary Butler, author of Just a Little Prick and a highly trusted source on this board, which might be of help to you.

http://www.*********/vaccines/butler.html

VACCINES and Breastmilk

HOW THEY AFFECT THE IMMUNE SYSTEM.

[nataliachick7]

maybe go to the library and get some books for yourself. a good one is "what your doctor may not tell you about childrens vaccinations" by stephanie cave. you can also find this online for about 5 dollars. i know there are other good books too, that other people may recommend.

vaccines are linked to all sorts of autoimmune disorders like asthma, allergies, eczema, etc.

[Crisstiana]

This ain't going to be popular, but I think we need to define our paramters. What does one mean when she says vaxes damage the immune system? What are the indices of a damaged immune system? What components of the immune system may be adversely affected by vaccines? How can this be evaluated?

I would look at the following:

Cell counts and activity
- Natural killer cells
- T cells (both CD4+ cytokine-producing helper Ts and CD8+ cytotoxic T cells, including lamina propria and intraepithelial lymphocytes)
- Monocytes
- B cells (including memory cells and plasma cells), and immunoglobulins
- Macrophages
- Dendritic cells
- Neutrophils
- Eosinophils
- Basophils (and their later form – mast cells)

Proteins and cytokines involved in the immune process
- Chaperone proteins
- INF-gamma
(among many, many others)

Intracellular stuff that kills viruses and bacteria
- proteases
- NADPH oxidase, an enzyme comples that includes phagosome oxidase
- Superoxide dismutase
- Myeloperoxidase
- peroxynitrite
- Memebrane Attack Complex (MAC ) and any essential component of the complement system

Areas of high concentration of active and mature immune cells
MALT: Mucosal-associated lymphoid tissue (protects mucosal sites)
And its subdivisions: GALT, BALT, NALT, etc.
Peyer’s patches: mucosal lymphoid follicles

Imbalance in pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines
Pro: TNF- alpha, IL-1, IL8, IL12
Anti: IL10, IL4, IL13

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of stuff. I've started to look at the effect of vaccines on these things, but all I've found is that vaxes appear to activate, not suppress, the immune system.

I made this list in part to see if others can find any studies that show a negative effect on such things after vaccination.

[mamakay]

Vaccines that contain aluminum salts (like prevnar and the DTaP) might raise your total IgE, which probably isn't a good thing, but not the end of of the world, either.

From what understand, most of this stuff hasn't really been studied. So demonstrating damage, even when small changes are noted, isn't possible.

[lokidoki]

I haven't seen much research on the issue of vaccines actually doing the damage to immune systems...although I can see where there could/would be that line of thinking. I have read several articles and studies that believe that children who are allowed to catch things like chickenpox and other childhood diseases strengthen their immune systems by fighting theses diseases. There is a belief that these childhood diseases prepare our immune systems for bigger things to come when we are adults! You should search this forum for things like that...

To answer your question about immune system boosting...I give my son Vitamin C boosters (especially when he is sick) and I make sure he gets plenty of sleep and a healthy (organic) diet when at all possible!

[chaoticzenmom]

Forgive my non-medical terms, but....I was taught in an environmental biology class that certain autoimmune diseases and cancers that are genetic are affected by environmental polutants, including, vax. A genetic disorder may be in the genes, but until the genes are stimulated by a toxin, the disease isn't there, just the potential for the disease.

In some disorders, Graves disease, Lupus and diabetes for example, an overactive immune system is the cause of the disease. The Killer T cells that normally attack bad stuff in our system will start to attack the good stuff too. When we get vaccinated, our immune system goes into overdrive, sending Killer T cells everywhere and can cause problems and auto-immune diseases to happen. So, the vax's might cause our immune system to react, not suppress it, but that's not always a good thing.

Actually, I had to to write a paper on it and might be able to find the articles that I used to discuss the causes of auto-immune disorders. If I can find that paper, I'll post it, but I really don't have time right this minute.

Lisa.

I'd love to see what others can find on it. I believe those diseases are on Gene #2, but really, it wasn't THAT indepth of a class.

[Kokopelli-mana]

Originally Posted by Crisstiana

vaxes appear to activate, not suppress, the immune system.

That's the problem. the hyperstimulation leads to attack on autologous and/ or non-toxic antigens, leading to a hyperactive response that's not warranted.

For example, the raising incidence of food allergies/ intolerances and eczema.

it's the atopy that leads to problems.

it's the reason i stopped vaxing when i saw this on dd. she deals with this everyday:

[chaoticzenmom]

double

[xmasbaby7]

It doesn't take a genius to suspect that the aluminum compounds in the vaccines to stimulate immune response result in overstimulation and cause dysfunction with things lke allegies.

When the body is reacting and creating antibodies to things it shouldn't, this malfunction started somewhere...

There are a few studies that compare the lower rates of allergies among non-vaxed children that have been posted here, as I am a major sufferer and didn't want dd to develop what I have. I am allergic to EVERYTHING.

There is just an appalling lack of studies from this angle for obvious reasons. I suspect that immunologists spend such a great deal focusing on the bodies ability to develop an immune response to one particular thing, that observing the body's more holistic repsonse to the cumulative effect of many vaccines doesn't even enter their thinking.

Until I see a large scale study where the scientific community is willing to compare the health and incidence of autoimmune disorders among traditionally vaxed and non-vaxed peoples, I think there is little to data to stand on.

I am so puzzled by how myopic my physician friends are on this. Their training just doesn't encourage real, analytical thinking.

[suschi]

No one can answer your question, no one fully understands the immune system, but the experiments continue.

Look at the recent news about the studies done on the effects of Fluzone on the fetus of pregnant women.

They ARE STILL LEARNING.

They don't want to know how vaccines may harm someone, the only studies that are done are to determine the "effect" of a vaccine in relation to disease prevention via vaccine.