i don't know if i am cut out for hospital births

[channelofpeace]

Does anyone else feel like this? I have doula-ed at mostly homebirths, and i attended my second hospital birth today. It went well by most accounts... the mama did beautifully, labored drug free and did so well. But the institution drives me nuts. The nurse was awesome but the doctor said stupid things like, (when she was at a 6 after being in labor for 7 hours) "i would like it if you were progressing a little faster" and here is the real kicker- she was complete and had the uncontrollable urge to push at 5:25 PM and they kept telling her to pant through contractions until the doctor got there. He didn't get there till six! Ridiculous. I was whispering to her to just listen to her body and not to pay attention. At one point she said she didn't care who she had to push for. It was so absurd. There were 4 medical professionals that could have caught and at least half a dozen other people in the room.

Which makes me think i am not cut out for doulaing at hospital births. I just hate to see women railroaded like that. But i also feel like any Mama deserves a doula wherever she births. I just don't know if i personally should attend any more. Part of me feels hypocrital too, because i had a hospital vba2c, although i was for medical reasons, and i would have loved to stay home. I feel very conflicted about the whole thing. Do you change the system from within or from the outside?

[MsBlack]

I did doula work for awhile, as I trained to be a hbmw. I won't do it anymore, and haven't for years...exception being the (fortunately rare) transport of my own clients to hosp.

Seems to me that the doulas who do best in hospital setting (from talking to a 1/2 dozen of them over the years) are those who either pretty much buy the whole hospital thing, or those with so much strength of spirit and such good boundaries that they are able not to take on too much of the inevitable crap. They focus on what they CAN do, and they focus on the mom, her wishes, and every little thing about a birth that can be counted as positive for the mom.

[bryonyvaughn]

Like sex, hospital birth is something I can't do for money.

Seriously, I don't have the stomach for it. Power dynamics common in hospitals are reminiscent of the powers dynamics I experienced being raised in a cult. I'm much better at recognizing boundary violations and manipulations than I used to AND doing so keeps me from getting sucked into it. Some things slip past me cognizant filter and leaves me being vaguely disturbed, unsettled, and irritable from days to over a week which negatively impacts my family. As no one can pay me fair compensation, I'll only attend a hospital birth for someone I love when we both go into the situation with similar understanding of autonomy and the morality of power in relationships.

There are many, many excellent causes in which to pour our energy and time. You could live a thousand lives and not address every need or do every good deed. I think we shouldn't apologize for narrowing our sphere of influence while doing good in our communities.

~BV

[SublimeBirthGirl]

Hating hospital birth is one big reason I decided not to be a doula anymore (there were other factors as well). Even the good ones seemed so negative compared to homebirths. I attended 2 homebirths early on, and it ruined me for hospital birth. The vailed (and not so vailed) threats, the coercion, the "that's how we do things here; you're not an individual, just one more in a long line of baby-carrying vessells." Women in hospitals need doulas, so I'm glad there are women who can tolerate it, but I'm not one of them.

[DoomaYula]

We don't have any hbmw's here, we only have CNMs who work for Obs, and we only have one hospital. It REALLY bothers me -- it can take me days to "shake off" even a good hospital birth. I just hate seeing women have to FIGHT for basic human rights like, say, FOOD and WATER and the ability to breastfeed immediately after birth. Gahhhhhhhhh.

I'm becoming more choosy about my clients. Yes, every woman who wants a doula should have one, but not every woman wants to pay for a doula or wants a doula because she wants a good birth.

I'd love to only attend hbs.

[onlyboys]

I stopped too, because I just get so sad for the things I see. It's funny though, when I was at a birth where it was a HB transfer and we *needed* the intervention, I didn't mind it at all. In fact, I was thankful for the hospital.

But for normal, healthy mamas and babies with normal labors? I don't think I can do it again.

[DoomaYula]

Yeah, a hb transfer made me grateful for hospitals. But I've only seen that once. And I've seen far too many of just plain ole low risk normal births that were intervened upon unecessarily.

[loudmama]

Ok here-I'll admit up front I have never attended a home birth. I want to, I just haven't been hired by anyone. I am also all for doulas who set boundaries for themselves by only attending certain births. However..... I have no problems attending hospital births.

I agree with all that is being said by other doulas. Except, it is not about me. It is about what Mom wants. I meet folks where they are at & go from there. I share info about all the things that go on in the hospital setting, but I don't push it & I don't take things personally. Maybe I'm just in an area where I have not seen some of the horror stories many have seen. But I try to empower women from where they are now. Gently influence & inform them. Give them the space, time, & opportunity to make whatever decisions they want. Make sure their questions are answered & they know what is going on.

I don't think hospitals are the evil. They're not all some make them to be, but not always evil. But, those are the choices women make or feel they need to make. Its not about me. We need to try & see where these families are & help them the best way we know how.

I just had to chime in here, as a doula who is ok attending hospital births.

Thanks,
L

[channelofpeace]

Originally Posted by loudmama

Ok here-I'll admit up front I have never attended a home birth. I want to, I just haven't been hired by anyone. I am also all for doulas who set boundaries for themselves by only attending certain births. However..... I have no problems attending hospital births.

I agree with all that is being said by other doulas. Except, it is not about me. It is about what Mom wants. I meet folks where they are at & go from there. I share info about all the things that go on in the hospital setting, but I don't push it & I don't take things personally. Maybe I'm just in an area where I have not seen some of the horror stories many have seen. But I try to empower women from where they are now. Gently influence & inform them. Give them the space, time, & opportunity to make whatever decisions they want. Make sure their questions are answered & they know what is going on.

I don't think hospitals are the evil. They're not all some make them to be, but not always evil. But, those are the choices women make or feel they need to make. Its not about me. We need to try & see where these families are & help them the best way we know how.

I just had to chime in here, as a doula who is ok attending hospital births.

Thanks,
L

I absolutely respect that. I am glad that there are doulas who have this perspective. Nothing is in a bubble and undoubtedly, my own hospital experiences have tainted the way i view things and i have a hard time separating that. I definitely think it is about boundaries and knowing your limits. When i was there yesterday, i put on my doula face and i schmoozed and tried to create a cohesive unit where everyone was on the same page. I just don't think i have the emotional energy, if that makes sense. I am very glad that there are doulas that do though. I think that the reason the subtle undermining of the pregnant mama and listening to her body bothered me so much because that happened to me when i was very vulnerable in labor. Right or wrong, that experience definitely affected me and how i view things. Interesting discussion.

[Gunter]

i don't know if i have any advice for you but i want you to know that you are not the only one who feels that way. i have been to three hospital births and two homebirths. one of those hospital births was basically a homebirth in a hospital and it was so wonderful and i look back on it fondly. one was an induction that went pretty well and the most recent one was soooo hard to attend. i am feeling pretty hopeless when i only think about it. so, i have to remind myself of the other births where i know i helped to make a difference.

i can totally relate to what you are thinking about right now!

[courtenay_e]

I LOVE doing homebirths...but really, oftentimes, those are not the women who neeed us the most. Yes, I DO have issues with women who put themselves into situations where they WILL have outcomes that are not cosistent with their wishes. That bugs me to no end...as if my simply being there is enough "magic" to make sure they get what they want out of birth...even though it's not really realistic at all because of the environment into which they've put themselves. It is much, much, much more emotionally draining (even without a particularly needy mother), even to go to a good birth at a hospital, because of the emotional/psychic walls that I build around myself (first) and then the laboring mother. But, as a pp mentioned...sometimes my ideal birth ISN'T the ideal birth for the mother I'm supporting. I see one of my biggest jobs as giving the woman the tools to make educated decsions for herself about what interventions she may or may not want...as pertains to the risk/benefit ratio that SHE deems most important. Does that mean that, one day, when I am a busy midwife and don't have to attend hospital births as a doula to make a living, I'll be sad and miss those hospital experiences? NO WAY. I'll be happy, though, to pass the torch to other doulas, who see the need to educate and support hospital birthers as I do now.

[onlyboys]

Well said!

I think part of my issue is really that my passion lies elsewhere. I am very glad for those doulas who do hospital births. It is very important for you to be there!

[BirthFree]

My passion is birth, first and foremost. It's awesome and my driving force behind my dreams and work.

That said, I have to take it in bite size pieces. I can do hospital births, but I have to have some other births in there too (or longer breaks) or I can't do it. The last two have been difficult for me so I am taking a break. I'll be back as I love births and I have a lot of hospital VBAC clients that I love to work for. But I need a break.

I'm doing my job to change people's experiences - da** the system. I doubt I'll ever change any of it as me alone - but influencing families with positive births and empowerment... now that I can do just me and myself.

[Zoo Loo Naturals]

I have come to the point where I have to detox after a hospital birth, it hurts me, makes me sad...I'm going to listen to my instincts, my gut. Something is very wrong!

I can't do it anymore. I haven't in a while and it feels much better.


I wish we didn't need doulas! There I said it. :
I support the movement, but I think it's a step, a means, to a better way... More midwives means less of a need for doulas.


I like what bryonyvaughn had to say.

[sunshine's mama]

Maybe this thinking about hospital births is why I can't find a doula in my area...

I am having a hospital birth...my last birth was as homelike as I could get it with my MW and my fantastic nurse (she stayed through a shift to be with me)....It was a long, hard, posterier labor with a baby girl who just would not turn.....we tried for weeks...she was settled and happy....Labor ended with my beautiful little girl but not without the drama of a full shoulder dystocia....How I would've loved to have a doula there and planned on it but dd was my first and I didn't know better....

I would love to have a homebirhth/waterbirth but we don't have the $$ to pay for a hbmw right now and even though I know the chances of another full dystocia happening again are pretty rare, I feel safer in the hospital just in case....My MW handled it beautifully...I ate when I was in labor, drank what I wanted...I did have a heplock for just in case but I consented to that...I did get some fluids when I first went in bc I was dehydrated a bit....then it came out...

I guess it just depends on what hospital you are in and who you have "attending" you.......Maybe I just lucked out greatly and I am hoping for a similar experience come end of the summer.....Hopefully with a doula....if I can find one....

[channelofpeace]

where are you sunshine's mama? maybe we could help you find one

[sunshine's mama]

ohio....i have a few links and have contacted many....a few have gotten back with no's...they only do homebirth....and many haven't just gotten back to me at all....

milky...sent ya a pm

[sirref]

It has been my belief and experience that crummy births happen everywhere. (As do good ones, not meaning to dwell on the negative.)
Basically I've been at many wonderful, natural/normal/vaginal/vbac/empowering (pick your term... whatever one you like) births in many settings, and a few really bad ones in various settings. The one thing in common of all the bad ones so far seems to be fear or a need to control in the provider. Mom fear/control, has it's own impact, but provider fear of birth, of being sued, of a tense situation; or provider need to control when the babe is born, what the mom eats, where she labors, how she births, how much she pushes; these are the things that have had the greatest impact on the crummy births I've attended no matter what the location and no matter what my role there was. (Friend, doula, attendant, babysitter, bump on a log.... whatever gets me to the birth that day...)

And yet, we are compelled to go back again & again! I do hospital doula work. I do homebirth work. I babysit for birthies and birthers. I have not ever felt a need to stop going to any one particular place. (I have my less favorite hospitals, and tell my clients going there what to be ready to fight for) I'm more likely to have a list of providers that I won't work with, and if needed a select hospital or center or whatever, then to refuse all hospitals.

I've managed to share my concerns over a certain location, and had a client who went there anyway, and one who looked into it herself & changed her provider for a better location. (Oh and the one who stayed there... ugh.)

[SublimeBirthGirl]

Originally Posted by loudmama

I agree with all that is being said by other doulas. Except, it is not about me. It is about what Mom wants.

Yes, I agree, and that's the problem. It's next to impossible for a mother who wants a no-intervention, natural birth to get it in the hospital. I've seen moms coerced into epidurals, antibiotics, c-sections, inductions, you name it. A friend threw in her doula towel after witnessing an episiotomy that was given thanks to a bald-faced lie by the doctor. I fully support a woman's right to give birth any way she chooses. If she wants those things (after being fully educated), I support her 100%. But the births I've attended have not been that way. It's been all about what DOCTORS want, not women. And I just can't watch.

[channelofpeace]

Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl

Yes, I agree, and that's the problem. It's next to impossible for a mother who wants a no-intervention, natural birth to get it in the hospital. I've seen moms coerced into epidurals, antibiotics, c-sections, inductions, you name it. A friend threw in her doula towel after witnessing an episiotomy that was given thanks to a bald-faced lie by the doctor. I fully support a woman's right to give birth any way she chooses. If she wants those things (after being fully educated), I support her 100%. But the births I've attended have not been that way. It's been all about what DOCTORS want, not women. And I just can't watch.

Honestly, if a mama wants to get an epidural, i don't really find that to be a problem. As long as she knows the risks and benefits and for her personally finds the benefits to outweigh the risks, i believe that having that choice available is empowering. Coercing her (outrightly or just because of all the stupid protocols wearing her down) is not cool in my book.