So, so sad today

[So-Called]

I'm feeling so defeated today.

I have two little girls whom I adore. Had they been boys, they would not have been circ'ed.

I want more children SO badly. I'd be thrilled with more girls, and yet there's a part of me that aches for a little boy so that I could protect at least one precious baby from this horror. Just one. Is that really so much to ask?

It rips my heart out to hear parents who've been entrusted with these sweet, perfect little boys making jokes about their circumcisions, or bragging about how "pretty" it is or how their newborn "took it like a man". I seriously want to throw up when I hear this. It makes me so angry I feel like punching them in the face. On days like today, when all I can think about is the fact that my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to and that my dream of having any more children is just that, it's all I can do not to hide in my room and cry over the injustice of it all.

When I try to speak up about circ, people say I have no idea what I'm talking about because I have girls. I know they're wrong. I look at my perfect little girls and know that I could never to subject them to the things that their boys have endured solely in the name of their parents' egos.

It's so wrong. This whole thing is so wrong. There are so many babies (and even well-meaning parents) who are harmed by this that the problem just seems too big. I feel like I can't fight the battle anymore. I've put my heart and soul into it, and I have nothing to show for it. I will never save a little boy from circ. I don't even want to try anymore, because all I can do is cry over the fact that these parents are so lucky to have these beautiful babies at all, and why is it them and not me?

I know that I have a lot of deep issues that are intertwined here. I just wish I could do something. I wish that every time I found out a friend or a relative was having a boy that my heart didn't plummet to my knees. I wish I could see their newborn babies and not feel so angry and heartsick, both for the babies and for myself.

I will say this- my girls WILL be raised to know how wrong circ is. I do try to lift my spirits with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I can influence the next generation in a positive way.

It's just so hard to focus on that on days like today. :

[titania8]

i hear you. infertility makes everything harder, doesn't it? it saps so much of your emotional energy that there really isn't much left over, especially for such a hugely emotional issue as circ. take a break. do something nice for yourself, you deserve it.

and you will save some babies. probably your grandsons. and those are the ones that will mean the most to you. and along the way, even before that, it will happen.

i'm sure its hard when people dismiss your view bc you have girls. really, what does not having a son have to do with knowing the facts about how horrific it is?? you wouldn't put your dd through something similar for the lame reasons that are given to make it ok in their minds. girls have WAY more uti than boys, but no one is thinking about circing their dd. though i have been fighting a uti myself for a week now, maybe its time to go in for that circ!

as far as 'taking it like a man'--what a load of crap. no man would allow it to happen to himself the way it happens to a baby. here, we're just going to strap you down and cut this bit off. have a sip of kool-aid to ease your pain. im so sure.

i do hope your feel better soon. it sounds like you are exhausted and maybe need to step back for a bit, work on you for a while. and when you are ready, come back swinging!!

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by titania8

i do hope your feel better soon. it sounds like you are exhausted and maybe need to step back for a bit, work on you for a while. and when you are ready, come back swinging!!

Don't give up. You never know who you will reach. And don't discount teaching your girls. That's a big deal. I too have girls and they will know the evils of circ when they are older. Teaching our girls is a huge leap in protecting future generations of boys. We will conquer this evil!

[gcgirl]

Originally Posted by So-Called

their newborn "took it like a man".

:Puke

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I won't be having anymore children due to my health issues, and it does make things even harder. I have three boys and miscarried a little girl 2 years ago Sometimes I get so sad and angry at the fact that I won't be able to protect a little girl from all the things that little girls face in this world.

But I have three nieces and lots of friends with girls that I can take a hand in protecting them. Don't give up the fight. You can educate other people and you can make a difference. My mother had three girls, but all her grandboys are intact, partly due to her. She teaches "hi, new baby courses" and give info about leaving sons intact. All the little baby boys out there need someone who is passionate and caring enough to take a stand. So from the mother of boys, please, please don't stop fighting. Take the time to grieve and to cry for your loss of having another child, a boy (trust me, I can understand that, and find myself doing that too) but when you can, give the little baby boys out their your support.

[dianamerrell]

my son is not circ, but my dh is.

before i had my son i though they all came that way

my son had appt booked for circ (when he was over one month old as they had no other appt left - they told me it would not be a prob -he wont feel much at his age!!!!!) anyway as the day approached i grew weepy and cried. i told my husband i could not do it ?yet?. we agreed to wait until he was older and would have pain meds. i know CRAZY.

he will never be circ'd now that i have educated myself.

i believe we need more education, the ability to talk and ask questions openly ( like everyone talking about awful female circ), truth from the medical community, and maybe more men coming forword with info, personal stories.

you mamas here @ mdc are much more educated, open minded, child loving etc., than the rest of the ( ?mainstream? ) world. the no circ movement is growing rapidly and im sure mdc mamas have helped tremendously!

[kldliam]

www.nocirc.org

Ms. Milos (founder of NOCIRC) once told me this:

It has taken about 100 years for MGM to contaminate this society. It should take at least that long to decontaminate the society. You have to look at the BIG picture to find hope.

In the span of only 27 years (1980-now) the national circ rate has dropped from 90% to 55%. Our message is clearly getting across. Be patient....it's happening. Hope this cheers you up a bit.

[kldliam]

Stephen Jerome of JAC wrote this today:

Every movement that really lasts starts slow. A great oak tree comes from a small nut. Do not be disheartened. Keep spreading the word!

[Evergreen]

Great thread.

I often think the same thing. I am like you, I have girls and while I would be thrilled with more girls, I do ache for a boy and the primary reason is to help skew the circumcision rates.

[GoodMomma]

I know how you feel! My son is circ'ed and it's something I think about daily. : I wanted another boy so badly so I can leave him intact and was upset when I was pregnant with my DD and found out she was a girl. But got over it because healthy is all that mattered and of course I wouldn't trade her. I just hope someday I have a boy! I think it'll definately help with the pain I feel towards our 1st mistake as parents.

[vaughnmama]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Don't give up. You never know who you will reach. And don't discount teaching your girls. That's a big deal. I too have girls and they will know the evils of circ when they are older. Teaching our girls is a huge leap in protecting future generations of boys. We will conquer this evil!

It is the women who will eventually end this horrible tradition!

Oh yeah...I wanted to add...
I was talking to an editor of a natural mag once when I was depressed over this issue, she said "Remember, you can quit whenever you need to. And you can quit as often as you need to. I've quit lots of times, and then came back to it when I was ready. You have to take care of yourself & your family, or the work you do loses it's legitimacy."

[vaughnmama]

Originally Posted by GoodMomma

I know how you feel! My son is circ'ed and it's something I think about daily. : I wanted another boy so badly so I can leave him intact and was upset when I was pregnant with my DD and found out she was a girl. But got over it because healthy is all that mattered and of course I wouldn't trade her. I just hope someday I have a boy! I think it'll definately help with the pain I feel towards our 1st mistake as parents.

It's nice to read that someone feels similar to me. Everyone asks if we are going to try for a girl (we have 2 boys.) I don't really know if I will have anymore children, but if I do, I hope I have another boy in order to leave him intact and make up for the mistakes of circumcising our first 2 boys. I haven't told my DH this because he would think I'm crazy, I think.

[Neth Naneth]

Originally Posted by kldliam

In the span of only 27 years (1980-now) the national circ rate has dropped from 90% to 55%.

Wow, that is amazing. At that rate in another 27 years only 1 in 10 boys would be circumcised.

Originally Posted by So-Called

When I try to speak up about circ, people say I have no idea what I'm talking about because I have girls. I know they're wrong. I look at my perfect little girls and know that I could never to subject them to the things that their boys have endured solely in the name of their parents' egos.

They are completely wrong, how dare they accuse you of that. That is like saying that someone who adopted a child can't speak up about natural births, home births, water births or UC. Sorry facts are facts and anyone can learn and spread them, oh that makes me mad how dare they.

Originally Posted by So-Called

I feel like I can't fight the battle anymore.

Whether you have a boy or girl you can spread the word not to circumcise.
Tell your pregnant friends and family members not to circumcise, tell a stranger having a baby not to circumcise, tell your children not to circumcise. No one can know it isn't right unless they are given the facts.

Originally Posted by So-Called

I will say this- my girls WILL be raised to know how wrong circ is. I do try to lift my spirits with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I can influence the next generation in a positive way.

That is exactly right, you should feel proud that you are wanting to educate on this subject. I have seen articles written on circumcision weighing out pros ( as if there are any) and cons by authors who were unbiased because they didn't care about the infant boys who's mothers were reading their misinforming articles. I have written articles on not circ'ing and every time I get a comment that someone says they plan to circ if they ever have children it makes me want to call them up so I can ask them their logic in hopes of explaining why their logic makes no sense. :

Don't you dare feel bad that you don't have a boy to keep intact, there are many baby boys born everyday and a lot of them have parents who don't know they should be keeping them intact.

My grandma couldn't have any children, she adopted my mom and was an amazing mother. Just because you don't have a boy to keep intact doesn't mean that you can't be an amazing intactivist.

I truly hope that you feel better soon, sweetie, we all do.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Tinker

And don't discount teaching your girls. That's a big deal. I too have girls and they will know the evils of circ when they are older. Teaching our girls is a huge leap in protecting future generations of boys. We will conquer this evil!

:
I, too, only have girls and we are done having children. I did get into a conversation with my dds just yesterday, though, about circ. My 6 y/o saw a dog walking by and asked me about why they cut dogs tails off (tail cropping). I discussed that with them and then told them about how dogs also sometimes used to have their ears docked (although not as frequently as they used to).

That then turned into a conversation on other unnecessary bodily modifications -- including male and female circ. They were both horrified with the idea and wanted to know if their father and 4 y/o boy cousin had had that done to them (I told them that female circ was illegal in the US, but male was not). They were so sad for their dad and cousin and I think that I have some budding intactivists. (Of course, I did caution them not to discuss other people's genitals with them right now in that I could see my little one getting into trouble by asking the little boys with whom she goes to school about the state of their penises!)

You are making a difference, too, with your girls.

[susienjay]

My cousin had a baby boy yesterday and I'm pretty sure he's getting circed today or tomorrow. :

I've been anti-circ since before I had my son. When I would bring it up with people then they acted like I knew nothing about it since I didn't have a son and didn't understand. I did have a boy a couple years later and he's intact. I don't feel like I'm making much more of an impact than I did before but I don't try as hard as I used to either. I got so sick of everyone I talked to about it doing it anyway. Maybe if I wasn't the family weirdo that breastfeeds too long and homeschools and has too many kids.

As a mom of mostly girls I think I'll make just as much a difference with having girls. My older girls know a little about circ and how awful I think it is. I'm pretty sure none of them with be circing my grandsons. I'm kind of hoping this baby is a boy but that's mainly because my son is already so outnumbered in our house.

[enstar780]

Originally Posted by vaughnmama

It is the women who will eventually end this horrible tradition!

Oh yeah...I wanted to add...
I was talking to an editor of a natural mag once when I was depressed over this issue, she said "Remember, you can quit whenever you need to. And you can quit as often as you need to. I've quit lots of times, and then came back to it when I was ready. You have to take care of yourself & your family, or the work you do loses it's legitimacy."

There are men like me who are adamantly opposed to this shocking and horrific practice. I thought it was sick and cruel beyond words since the first time I heard about it. I have commited myself to helping to end this practice that has caused terrible pain and suffering, and life long loss for its victims, violated them and their basic rights. It greatly hurt me, I felt my parents had let me down by letting it happen to me, I wish it hadnt been allowed to happen, that they would have protected me from it. It grealty upsets me that it is still being done to children. The idea of children being hurt and injured, mutilated for life, is something I cannot stand. What is even more frightening and awful is many people do not see anything wrong with it, and willingly subject their children to this cruel practice which forever violates their basic human right to a whole body, and truly part of their life.

I have been quite appalled as well how our society disregards the emotions of men and I think this is a part of our problem. Men were often conditioned by society to never show emotion, to disconnect from their emotional side, which certainly contributes to this. We need to see all people as having feelings and a right to not be treated cruelly, and respectful of their emotional needs. It has often been men who have been manipulated and forced into wars to serve as human fodder for the tactical pleasures of the powerful elite, or abused and treated cruelly. Circumcision is clearly associated in many societies who inflict this atrocity with desensitizing boys and turning off their emotions, turning them into fighting machines. It is a part of cultural manipulation and brainwashing that tramples all over the rights of the individual, to turn them into cookie cutter robots, implanted with the progrmming of society and subordinated to it, instead the individual human rights are which truly should be paramount.

As far as intactivism, I do this to inform parents who are expecting children about it. If I see someone who is pregnant about, I give them a card which has printed on it an address to a website which has information on why MGM is so wrong on it. The card does not say anthing about MGM, just that the website is about childrens health issues. I want them to take it home and look up and read the website before they draw conclusions.

[witchbaby]

you don't have to have a son yourself to save other little boys the horror of circ! keep educating and speaking out, there are people listening. every seed of knowledge you sow has the chance to grow into a conviction.

[trmpetplaya]

I understand your longing for a son and I can tell you that you don't need a son to stand up for the rights of other people's sons! Just ask those people if not having a son means that you have no reading/researching skills. Ask them if it means that you have no common sense to understand what you read and research. What does having a son have to do with learning the truth anyhow?

My sister will be coming with my mom for the birth (hopefully) of this babe. We don't know the gender yet (we'll find out when he/she is born! which will be very soon...), but I'm really hoping for a boy. My sister is 14.5 years old and I would love to show her that baby boys don't need surgery right after birth. As far as I know the only thing she knows about circumcision is that it's in the OT. My dad has preached sermons on how Christians don't need to circumcise so maybe she's heard one of those (I don't know if he's preached one since she would remember or not though since they live a long way away now...).

I want her to see a normal baby penis and get used to that. I want to teach her not to retract, to just wipe it like a finger, and that the foreskin is an integral part of male genitalia. I know she wants to have a nephew also (since she already has a niece) so... it'd be really cool if this babe's a boy! Not to mention, boys are a lot of fun :

But... it would be nice to have two daughters close in age too... so I guess it'll be fine either way. I would just love to teach my sister about this issue ASAP and with a real live, perfect, whole baby to be an example

love and peace.

[3kidsclmr]

originally posted by vaughnmama:
don't really know if I will have anymore children, but if I do, I hope I have another boy in order to leave him intact and make up for the mistakes of circumcising our first 2 boys. I haven't told my DH this because he would think I'm crazy, I think.

I think the same thing ALL the time. Unfortunately, my DH is definitely done having kids... I know he would never agree to a fourth. Still, I often find myself wishing for just one more little boy so I could break the cycle of abuse in my own little family...

[So-Called]

I know this is a really old thread, but I wanted to bump it up for two reasons:

First and foremost, thank you to everyone who replied with such sincerity and depth of feeling. I did read every response, though I had to take a board break shortly afterward because my emotions were so raw. Still, I appreciated everything all of you had to say and I apologize for not saying so sooner. I also hope that everyone who posted saying that they were in a similar place has been able to find some peace with things as they are.

Second, I wanted to add the update that, after finding out a few months ago that we are VERY unexpectedly pregnant with our third child, we've just been told with 99.9% certainty that our new baby is a boy! I'm a little surprised and nervous, but elated at the same time. And of course there's no question that this little one will be coming home intact, just as his big sisters did.

Thank you again, from the bottom of my heart. I imagine you'll be seeing a lot more of me in the coming months.