Teaching Abstinance Until Marriage

[Arduinna]

I'm curious about those that are stressing abstinance until marriage. First Question is are you concerned that your kids may choose to marry younger than they would because of their desire to become sexually active? Two, what of those people that may not want to get married until they are in their 30's are you still expecting that they will be virgins at marriage. And how is virginity being defined in your families? As nothing more than kissing? or anything but penetration is ok? Obviously there is alot of stuff in between those two choices that one can engage in.

[wombat]

I'm also curious how virginity is defined these days. I've also been hearing and reading a lot about the teenage trends in the USA where they vow to keep their virginity. But then I saw some shows where some teens had some very liberal views on what constituted virginity. So then I was totally confused. Actually I'm still trying to get my head around the whole morality issue in the USA. It's very confusing for those of us who haven't grown up here.

I find the whole concept of 'dating' among high school students rather novel too. It didn't happen in my high school - no proms, no dances (if the school had a dance, no one would have been seen dead there anyway)... Some kids 'went out together' but it was considered 'dating'. I guess my concept of dating comes from religiously watching The Brady Bunch and all those American sitcoms when I was a kid.

[Greaseball]

Well, I'm sure people can guess from my pervious posts that this is not something I will teach!

Some marriages are really unhealthy, while some co-habitations or dating relationships are healthy. I would much rather have sex in a healthy relationship.

I plan on teaching abstinence (from all physical expressions of affection, not just penetration) until one is sure they want to do whatever it is with the person who wants to do it with them, not just because they think they are supposed to, they think everyone else is doing it, they think they don't have a right to say no, and all the other reasons people often have for sex or anything else.

Whether it's hugging, kissing, masturbating, or intercourse, I think the only reason for doing any of these things is because you want to (and your partner wants to). I also think the only reason for waiting should be because you want to.

Some people are marrying right out of (or even while still in) high school, or they have sex and then think they automatically have to get married.

I think if one chooses to have sex with someone and then regrets it or wishes they had waited longer, it's a lot easier to just walk away from that and move on than it is to leave a bad marriage.

[Arduinna]

I've been reading Her Way: Young Women Remake the Sexual Revolution by Paula Kamen and it does seem that virginity has been redefined by the younger generation ( I'm within sight of 40).

[carmen veranda]

My niece who is 16, told my dd, that her friends from church and her get together and have oral sex in various parents basements. They do this because they want to "remain virgins" and this keep them from "being horny." And the parents are none the wiser. And they can then marry as virgins. As my dd said to her cousin, "yeah, whatever."

[menudo]

I guess the term is "What are you a virgin to?" Most kids I know consider a virgin someone who has not had penetration penis/vagina. Now DH mentioned girls he knew in HD (10 years ago) who only had Anal sex so they could stay virgins and not get pregnan. Pitiful. I hard of this back then too. In many circles, oral sex is as casual as french kissing. So dumbin my eyes BECAUSE it is dangerous disease wise and can carr as much baggage asa penetrable sexual relationship.

Me and Dh are at odds with this issue. But I do teach/plan on teaching my philosophy-for sex "It can and probably will feel good when it is happening, but it comes with many issues afterwards. Yes, it changes things emotionally, sometimes pysically (pregnancy, stds, etc.). I will not lie and say it is bad or will suck, cause that is not usually true. But it is personal and a major turning point in your life. Never let yourself be pressured into anything, including sex. If someone tries to pressure you, they are not worth you." It goes on and on depending...but you get the point.

So although I feel waiting /abstinance is a great idea, iwill not say you MUST wait. That is not for me to say. Ido say you should wait until marriageand/or a very commited relationship. (I am not legally married BTW...)

[momatheart23]

Both my Mom and Aunt were virgins when they married and they both swear now this is not what to teach. In fact my aunt says not to get married until you have lived with someone. I was a teenager not too long ago and yes the current definiton is penetration. Even my mom who was married in '73, said that although she was a "virgin" they did everything but actual penetration. And she got married right out of high school. I would never teach that you have to wait until marriage(For one it would make me a BIG Fat Hypocrite which I vow never to be). I will teach my children all the reprucussions that come along with sex as well as other decisions(drinking, drugs, etc.) Let them know to wait until they are ready, not their friends or boyfriend or girlfriend is ready, and to have SAFER SEX always.

[Faith]

At my church, they have something called courtship.
I am a romantic, and this made my heart melt, and this is what I want for my children (and for myself if I had it to do over).

There was a guy at our church with the girl he was courting. They went to the same Xian high school, and attended our church with their families. After graduation, he asked her father for her hand in marriage, and he said yes. Then because **they had never, ever, ever touched even once** he asked the dad permission to hug her and the dad said yes! (I almost cried at the sweetness and innocense in that!) Then, they continued not to touch. I would see them at church sitting one chair apart (and then closer to the wedding sitting next to each other) and I would almost be jealous of the anticipation and excitement they must have!
Then their wedding!!! It was the most beautiful, perfect wedding I have EVER been at (including my own). It wasn't boring or pretencious or anything... just amazing. They had their first kiss on the alter. Now, that honeymoon must have been what REAL honeymoons are all about! Can you imagine, being SO in love with the man who will be your one and only forever, and being a complete virgin on your wedding night? I think that is so, so beautiful and rare and special and perfect. I think that will add so much to the incredible bond they allready have. They will have that forever. *sigh*

That is what I will teach my children. I think it is completely realistic for them, because of our strong faith. If they get married young, that is great. I would prefer that, actually. What is the point in waiting to get married if you are in love and want to be together? My DH and I fell in love when I was 14. He was 15. We would have gotten married then if we could have. But society doesn't allow it, and I think we would have had a LOT fewer problems if we had been able to. Instead everyone put tons of pressure on us to break up, date (sleep) around, and it was a huge mistake. But even if my kids don't get married til their thirties- yes, I fully expect them to be thirty year old virgins. I am not naive. It is a concious choice people make because of very strong morals and personal convictions.
By the way, we got married at 20 and 22 (almost five years ago) and are still deeply committed, still totally in love, and do not believe in divorce, so despite falling in love young-it is the real thing.

[DaryLLL]

I think if you have brought your partner to orgasm or had one yourself, you are no longer a real virgin.

What about if your dd IDs as lesbian or bisexual? What if she has her girlfriend sleep over and you know she thinks her friend is hot?

If she had a boy friend, and wanted to sleep with him in my house at x yrs of age, would I not be OK with that? Then, what about the lesbian issue? no worries about pregnancy, less worries about STDs, but still, sex is sex, see above, my def.

[captain optimism]

abstinance vs. self-esteem

I think if I were to ask my ds to wait until marriage to have sex, I would want to be part of a community where young marriage was the norm. It's hard to ignore the promptings of your body!

I feel that the big issue isn't what is virginity or what is sex or whatever. I mean, I don't have any attachment to sexual intercourse. The big issue for me is, does the child have the self-esteem to feel loved and wanted so that she or he can make good decisions about sex. It's so much easier to wait to have sexual contact if you know that you are worthy of love.

I think as a teen and young adult, i didn't have the kind of self-esteem and self-love I needed. Not that all my decisions about sex were bad. It's just that I think I made some decisions based on my need for love and comfort. If I had those resources internally, I might have been able to make better decisions, or decisions that felt better.

It's not that my child shouldn't have sex before marriage. It's that he shouldn't be pressured into having sex, ever. (Or pressure anyone else, God forbid.)

[applejuice]

I was a virgin at my wedding and I expect my DD and DS's to do the same.

I feel it is the very best for them.

No worries about disease or premarital pregnancy or any other complications.

Lfe is full of regrets and sorrows. Why add premarital sex to that list?

[Cindi]

I'm no where near puberty with my son, but see the issue this way...

It would be very important for me to get across that no birth control (other than abstinance) is 100% guaranteed, and that you take a risk at creating a child. I would want my child to know this risk, and to be sure his or her partner knew this risk, and understood it profoundly, with a game plan for pregnancy. To me, marriage is in spirit more than written contract, and I am not attached to a church or outside system's acknowledgement of that connection. But the alignment of sexual partners is important.

What I find dangerous about promoting abstinence, is that if your child doesn't feel this is right for them, they will find a way to have sex...but will enter into this arena without support from parents, and will not come to you with questions and emotional needs.

Just stay tuned in to where your child is with it, and respect differences of opinion with open accepting dialogue.

[mamaduck]

It would be very important for me to get across that no birth control (other than abstinance) is 100% guaranteed, and that you take a risk at creating a child. I would want my child to know this risk, and to be sure his or her partner knew this risk, and understood it profoundly, with a game plan for pregnancy. To me, marriage is in spirit more than written contract, and I am not attached to a church or outside system's acknowledgement of that connection. But the alignment of sexual partners is important.

Whew! This is great, and exactly what I was thinking. It certainly implies a level of genuine commitment before sex.

This whole topic scares the snot out of me though. Can't I just keep them little? Please?

[asherah]

Actually, Perfectlove.. that sound horrid to me.
OOOh the stress and pressure of the wedding night!
And oooh the discomfort of losing one's virginity on the wedding night!

But hey.. each to their own.

And my ds will have to make his own decisions about his sexuality.

I do not believe you can "teach" abstinance. You can explain it.. you can advise that it is a worthy option... but then it's up to the child to choose it.. or not.

I intend to be very open and frank with my ds.
What I DO hope to teach him is to be honest, honorable and respectful.. of his body and other people's body. Of his heart and other people's hearts.

I will tell him sex is wonderful with the right person.. and that it can be seriously destructive with the wrong person.. and that sometimes it is hard to tell the difference when your body and mind is full of passions and hormones. That's where the honesty, honor and respect comes in.

I will tell him about the emotional and physical complications of sex.

I will tell him that having sex with someone makes you honor-bound to that person.. and to be careful of making that connection unless you are ready for it and you mean it.

I will tell him that abstinance is an option.. and a fine one if that's what he wants. But I will also support him in being responsible and healthy if he chooses to have sex earlier.

I will support and love him no matter what his sexual orientation is. I will never use shame or guilt to manipulate his choices.

And I will hope and pray that the choices he makes are safe, sane and positive.

[its_our_family]

In all honesty....we will teach abstinence until marraige. Sex outside of marriage is too risky for one (pregnancy, disease, emotional comtiment etc.) and we just don't see it (as a family) as something that is to be messed with.

I don't want to come off as prudish but if I do...oh well

Actually, I'm allfor teaching ds the poin of dating is to find a spouse. And until you are actually ready to start looking for a spouse then dating is pointless. I'm not talking about a girlfriend in the 3rd grade...but a serious relationship at 16 is stupid. Most likely you won't stay together anyway. My dh doesn't think you can teach anyone this concept, but my mom did...and I did start dating until 20 and got married at 21. I see dating as pointless...and hopefully staying away from dating helps you stay from pre-marital sex...not in every case...but kwim?

I think that kissing is fine...ven though I didn't kiss until dh and I were engaged. But I think sex constitutes anything that causes you to know another persons body in a way that only their dr should know; nudity, touching in appropriately.

I wil teach my children that abstinence is the only birth control that is 100% effective.

I know they might not see things my way, but I would hope that I will be able to "prove" my case to them in such a way that they would agree. If they don't.....then we do what we can.

BTW---I was brought up to stay away from pre-marrital sex and so were all of my friends.....and not one of us "married young" in order to become sexually active....to me that sounds silly...not saying it doesn't happen but it sounds odd. Thats why I hope that my children understand the point of what we teach

I hope all this made sense

[mamacrab]

Originally posted by PerfectLove
There was a guy at our church with the girl he was courting. They went to the same Xian high school, and attended our church with their families. After graduation, he asked her father for her hand in marriage, and he said yes. Then because **they had never, ever, ever touched even once** he asked the dad permission to hug her and the dad said yes!

This is HORRIBLE in my opinion. The idea of one man asking another man for permission to touch me is actually turning my stomach. And the idea of this happening to my dd!!!! I have REALLY done wrong in raising her if she ever thinks that idea is sweet, romantic or INNOCENT (its the *opposite* of innocent!)

My daughter will decide who can and can't touch her- it's not up to any prospective partner and it is CERTAINLY not up to her father- dh would instantly lose *all* respect for anyone who talked about dd in those terms!!

I plan to teach my daughter, and my son, about safe and healthy sexual relationships- which sometimes exist outside marriage and sometimes don't exist within marriage! My dd knows I was preganant with her when I got married, and whenever we look at my wedding album together, she says "I was there, too, right mom? I was inside your belly!"

have more to say, but baby is cring, gtg

[Arduinna]

"Lfe is full of regrets and sorrows. Why add premarital sex to that list?"

I guess that is up to personal interpretation. I certainly don't add my premarital sex and pregnancy and birth to that list. Of course I don't regret anything I've done.

Excellent point Dar regarding same sex relationships. Since I'm not teaching abstinance before marriage, none of the questions really apply to me though :-)

"Can you imagine, being SO in love with the man who will be your one and only forever, and being a complete virgin on your wedding night? I think that is so, so beautiful and rare and special and perfect."

Actually, I definately don't see this as perfect. And the idea that one man asks another for permission to do anything to a woman is completely repugnant to me. Women are their own persons. If someone else is deciding who can and can't touch me that is abuse IMO.


I think dating is very important. I do not think it's pointless at all. Of course I also think that the point of life is not just to get married and have babies so maybe that is why I value dating, learning who we are as individuals before we choose a life partner.

I will support and love him no matter what his sexual orientation is. I will never use shame or guilt to manipulate his choices."

I feel the same way!

[its_our_family]

Originally posted by Arduinna

"Can you imagine, being SO in love with the man who will be your one and only forever, and being a complete virgin on your wedding night? I think that is so, so beautiful and rare and special and perfect."

Actually, I definately don't see this as perfect. And the idea that one man asks another for permission to do anything to a woman is completely repugnant to me. Women are their own persons. If someone else is deciding who can and can't touch me that is abuse IMO.


I think dating is very important. I do not think it's pointless at all. Of course I also think that the point of life is not just to get married and have babies so maybe that is why I value dating, learning who we are as individuals before we choose a life partner.

I think the first quote is a beautiful and special thing....HOWEVER...the asking permission to hug his daughter....that gives me the creeps. I went out with a guy who was that type of person....and ick...he jsut made me feel gross!

I don't think the point of life is to marry and have babies. I just don't think you should be in a serious relationship until you are at a place in your life that marraige is a viable option. Marriage at 16 (unless you are Macauly Caulkin) is not an option. I dated several ppl before dh....nothing serious....and I knew plenty about what I wanted and didn't want and who I was before I married. I think that some ppl put so much emphasis on dating as a teen that they don't discover who they are. I think dating can cloud your mind......

Same sex relationships....I never even thought about that.......

"when you have brought your paretner to true orgasm you are not a virgin" interesting thought. I had a friend in college that pregnant and they got married because of it and 2 weeks later the baby was lost. When she was telling me about her m/c she told me that her and her dh "got pregnant but never had sex...its one of those things you hear about in health class" I still don't know what that means??

[Quirky]

I probably won't say anything that someone hasn't already said, but I believe that my children have autonomy over their own bodies, which, among other reasons, is why I decided that I did not have the right to circumcize ds (even if I had wanted to). His body, his decision. Same holds true with sex: although ITA with asherah et al. about educating my kids about the potential ramifications of a sexual relationship, whether casual or serious, in the end it's my child's body to decide what he wants to do with it, and I will have no disappointment in the slightest if he decides he doesn't want to wait until marriage for his first experience.

Actually, the thought of him marrying as a virgin (or marrying a virgin) scares the crap out of me. Perhaps it is a function of my not getting married until age 32, but (no offense to anyone here) I see 21 years old as very young for marriage. I would rather my child separate out the sex from the marriage part, and not be in an all-fired hurry to get married just so he can find out what sex is all about. I'd rather he had practice at relationships, including sex, so that when he does decide to get married he knows what intimate relationships are all about and can make his choice of marriage partner from an educated perspective. It's too important a decision to be undertaken without knowledge of what one wants and needs in intimate relationships.

And yes, abstinence may be the only 100% sure form of birth control and disease prevention, but other methods when used as directed come pretty darned close. I had plenty of sex before I was married and did not get pregnant until I wanted to be. Although I want to warn my son of the risks he faces if he has unprotected sex, I don't believe a) in making sex out to be this horribly dangerous activity fraught with illness, death, and unintended pregnancy, and b) that only sex within marriage is pure.

[captain optimism]

its_our_family, you got married at 21. To me, that's young! i got married at 34. My mom waited until she was married. She also got married at 21. Indeed, my dad waited, too. I respect them for that. I think it's fine.

If I had waited until marriage to have sex, I too would have gotten married by 21. If not sooner! But it was not part of my beliefs to do that. My mom did think I should, but I ignored her.

I'm glad I married when I did because I'm glad I married who I did. The guys I liked in my late teens and early 20s would not have been as right for me. Some were just WRONG. I wish I had liked myself more. I don't really regret having sex, I regret putting my heart into relationships (sexual and not) that were not good for me.

Now you might say, "well, in a traditional society, your parents would make a match for you instead." Oh man! that would be the worst alternative EVER! My mother was even more desperate than I was about whether anyone would love me. You would think I was a hideous monster, but I look at my photos and see that I was attractive. She was just worried that it would be difficult for a man to love someone so intellectual. She still gives me crazy advice about how I should defer to my husband's opinions, even though I have NEVER heard her defer to my dad in my entire life.

So I think you can teach abstinence without teaching abstinence, if you know what I mean. You can teach children to abstain from what's bad for them and take what's good, if you can convey that you believe they are beautiful and will find someone wonderful.

so far I'm doing a great job, but my baby is only 4 months old!