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I. Hate. Bedtime. HATE IT! - Page 4

post #61 of 138
Thread Starter 

CONCLUSIONS?

Hi Everyone,

Wow. I must say that I am overwhlemed by the sheer *volume* of frustration out there. I know we are a self-selected group, bc happy, well-rested parents of Sleepers don't respond to threads like this, but I do not think it would be a stretch to say that this is a real drawback to AP, at least as it is "advertised" these days.

I've been mulling this over for days -- especially as I have been toiling to fix our own little sleep problems -- and I thought I would make a feeble attempt to pull this all together and at least move us in the direction of healing (for lack of a better word) so that we're not just stuck in our frustration and helplessness.

First, let me say, elismom, BusyMommy, PumpkinSeed, Emma, OklahomaMama, nuggestmom, ksmeadowlark, Jennifer Z, and Nanner, you've all been HEARD. I read all of your posts with great empathy, and while I wish I could respond to each of you personally, consider yourselves HUGGED!

(((((((elismom, BusyMommy, PumpkinSeed, Emma, OklahomaMama, nuggestmom, ksmeadowlark, Jennifer Z, and Nanner)))))))))))

Curious and Iguanavere, thanks so much for your words of wisdom and advice. They mean so much coming from mamas who have experienced sleep success.

On a personal note, I wanted to reinforce what Iguanavere said about being very disciplined with the routines . . . This past week my dh was working 20-hr days and I was basically a single mom, so I KNEW I had to get ds to sleep more reasonably.

Thanks to this thread and some others, I came to realize that I have been making several mistakes with ds's sleep:

1) letting him sleep until he wakes up each day (which varied from 7 to 9:45)

2) letting nap times vary according to when he woke up, so that he was going down anywhere from 12:30 to 4

3) letting him nap until he woke up, and sometimes nursing him back down if he seemed grumpy when he woke (so he would sometimes nap for 3-4 hours!)

4) starting the bedtime too late (due to social functions or simply waiting for dh to get home so ds could see him)

I will also admit that I recently read Weissbluth's book on sleep training (something about Happy Baby, Healthy Sleep) and while I think the man has the emotional intelligence of an ACORN (encouraging parents to let 4 mos old babies cry for 4 hours -- please!), I was able to glean a few nuggets of helpful advice -- mostly pertaining to the things I just listed above.

So now we:
1) wake up each day before 8:00, regardless of what kind of HELL we went thru during the night
2) nap at 1:00 (or earlier), no matter what kinds of fun thigns may be going on
3) are out of the bath by 8:15 (even if it means a standing-up sponge bath so we're out in 45 seconds)

and he has been asleep by 9:00 every night since I first posted this thread. (and yes, as dalai_mama said, things do happen to disrupt, but I then put everything into fast forward to make up for it -- and I no longer let social activities disrupt -- very hard!)

Note that I am still putting him to sleep -- slinging, back-rubbing, etc., and we have made NO progress in getting him to fall asleep lying down, but for my own sanity I had to shorten the duration of the falling asleep first. When we've got this down pat (like, this works for a MONTH or more), maybe THEN I will have the energy to try teaching him to help put himself to sleep. (Also note that I am not claiming long-term success . . . I fully realize this could all change at a moment's notice, but for now, we seem to have found a pattern that works.)

And let me tell ya, keeping to this pattern is HARD. And it is NOT the AP I read about in any of the Sears lit. THIS is where I think we all have been lead astray . . .

Sear and others convinced us early on that if we just "follow babies cues" and "respond to baby empathetically and lovingly" that all would be rosy. Frankly, I think Bill and Martha are either full of it, or they have conveniently forgotten, bc there is no way in HELL those people had 7 babies and NONE of them were sleep-fighters. Maybe they were doing something so obvious to them that they neglected to write about it, but in any case, as wonderful as they are, and as much as they have done to promote excellent parenting, I belive they have missed the mark on this one. (trying to avoid any flaming here)

I also think that the AP message has been that if you just "incorporate baby into your lives" that you'll be happiest. And for many, many months, this was true and I wouldn't change a thing.

I believe that AP parents do much of what they do in an effort to put Baby first. They are self-sacrificing, selfless, empathetic, and hard-working. And it now appears to me that in order to put Baby first, that is, so that Baby gets the sleep s/he needs, AND save our sanity at the same time, we must make some sacrifices during the day. It is SO much easier for me to sleep until 9:30, especially after he has woken 6 times in 6 hours!, or to let him nap for 3 hrs (what a break!), or to keep him out late at a fabulous outdoor concert.

And don't misunderstand me -- if this is still working for a family, more power to you! But if you are burning out like me (and nearly everyone above) then I think it's time to act more like a "traditional" parent who watches the clock very carefully.

And it's trade-off. There are some definite feelings of being trapped . . . can't stay at the pot-luck past 7, and it didn't start until 6 . . . can't go out to dinner bc dh got home form work too late, etc, etc.

One other thought: It seems to me that for AP parents, CRYING is to be avoided at all costs (it has been in my house) -- not that we don't let ds feel his sad or angry or hurt feelings, but extended crying jags related to sleep have been avoided like the plague! But you know, people who nightwean experience some crying, and happily report that their children are not adversely affected -- and I believe them that their children's trust has not been violated -- so why it is that we couldn't have a little crying as we try to learn to fall asleep?

I know, I know, there's a fine line that none of us want to cross, but I guess I'm wondering if we all aren't so afraid of the crying that we haven't really given our babes a *chance* to learn to fall asleep. (flames may fly for that one!)

I feel certain some of you already do all these things I'm suggesting, and they still don't work for you. But are there any others of you who are making similar mistakes as I was, and if so, do you think you want to try shifting? You don't need to answer me -- it's more food for thought.

One thing I KNOW FOR CERTAIN after my 21 mos as a mother is that NOTHING will work for EVERYONE. SO I would never presume to prescribe a program with a "guarantee" (blows my MIND when the "sleep experts" do!). I guess I'm just grasping at straws.

And if I could make helping AP parents get their children to sleep AND STILL AP my life's work, I think I would go for it.

Sorry for the novella. I just couldn't STAND to post a thread where all we do is wallow in our frustration . . . I want AP to WORK, DAMMIT!

(P.S. I know at least one person has posted while I was writing -- hope this won't be redundant!)
post #62 of 138
Thread Starter 
Yes, Curious, my routine does feel a little militarized, esp in comparison to our old life (and to those of most of my AP friends) but I choose it over the heart-wrenching, back-backing struggle of a 2-hr sleep fight. And I guess my hope is that once we've established this routine really well, maybe we canback away from it on occassion. As our life was before, one late night was all it took to turn everything on it's head. And that was not working for this little family!
post #63 of 138
Breathe, I think the routine has to feel somewhat "militarized" at first because you are moving from one lifestyle to another. It's like getting into an exercise routine or diet after not being on one. You have to force yourself in prescribed ways or you will slide quickly back into your old routine (or lack thereof, LOL!).

I also think that the changes you are envisioning to the sleep routine go hand-in-hand with other limits you have to start setting with toddlers. I felt so totally lost on how to make the transition from AP-ing a baby to setting limits with a toddler. It seemed like everything I read about AP implied that if you let the child lead and just love them enough, they'll be well-behaved, happily sleeping, unchallenging little beings. Sure, there would be the occasional heart-to-heart discussion (and mutual agreement) on how to resolve a sticky situation, but I wouldn't ever have to raise my voice or pick her up and carry her out of a store or anything. Ha! So I was clueless how to start setting limits, how to not feel angry and guilty and mean about it, how to put my needs into perspective. I still struggle with this, but it's getting a little easier over time.

Let's face it, a mom is not a machine. There are times when I am tired, sore, mad, sad. I cannot reasonably be expected to put on a happy face and love life when I'm breaking my back lugging a toddler for an hour at night and going without enough sleep. Nor can I be as good a mom during the rest of my days when I'm so tired. Those realizations gave me the courage to withstand hearing DD cry some as I gradually cut down on nighttime nursing, or gradually reduced the time I'd walk her around before bed. The nightweaning made DD mad for a couple weeks, then she was over it. She isn't traumatized for life, and in fact she now sleeps through the night (which wasn't instantaneous but certainly was directly related to nightweaning in our case). Sometimes she wants to walk around more than our usual ~5 minutes before bed and I tell her, "No, Mommy is too tired. I will snuggle with you if you want." Sometimes she gets mad, but that's how it has to be.

I wish I could report that these changes have made DD the world's best sleeper, but they haven't. She still fights sleep, but at least she's using me less as a punching bag for her frustrations. She's learning more and more to rely on herself to go to sleep, and she's actually able to fall asleep by herself maybe half of the time now (after our usual routine). It finally feels like the last 10 months of hard work trying to envision and implement changes is paying off.

Keep the faith. It can be hard work, but it's worth it for both your sanity and your child's ability to gradually learn to fall asleep on his own which we all eventually need to learn to do. I don't think an infant should be left to their own devices, but let's face it, an 8 year old should have some sleep skills and it's our job to help them learn those skills!

Carol
post #64 of 138
Breathe -

Thanks so much for those thoughts. I think you're on to something. I admit I read it with a combination of interest and dread, though. Mostly because I'm coming to the same place - where I'm pretty sure I need to make some changes to our lifestyle for more consistency in dd's life (she's 16 mo.).

But I don't want to do those things!!!! Waaaah!

*sigh* Okay, I got that out, lol.

I like sleeping in when she does, the long naps, (and even the accidental 6pm naps.... I LOVE to cook and eat dinner w/dh without interruption!!) and yes last night there was a potluck.

It was a friend's bday, the potluck was at 6:30, I let dd nap at 6 to have some energy for it. We went from 7:30 - 9:30, had a great time, met new friends, felt like I actually had a social life, dd got to dance.

But bedtime was a mess, and basically last night she slept from 12:40 am () to 5:30 when she got up with dh for a while, then again from 7:30 - 10 am.
So your post was right on time. I've got to get some more discipline. I really don't have much myself, or much consistency to our schedule pre-dd, so it's hard to do now. But it's time, I know.

Anyway, housework awaits....

mb
post #65 of 138
I agree that a routine is a must. I read with some surprise that a routine is contrary to what the Sears' recommend, though, and went back to my well-worn copy of "The Baby Book" and found that pages 336-337 (in my addition) really SUPPORT a routine. Some excerpts (which I'm typing as I I look at the book, so excuse typos):

Quote:
Our baby won't go to bed before midnight. What do we do?

Take charge! You are the parents and that gives you the privelege of deciding what bedtime needs to be for your family. Try these steps:

- Push the afternoon nap back to an earlier time so baby is truly tired.

[snip]

-Stick to a bedtime ritual -- winding down and wearing down, brushing teeth, a lullaby, and lights out -- so that baby expects sleep to follow the same routine.

[snip]

- try the adult-in-charge approach. If despite all your soothing strategies baby still protests succumbing to sleep, calmly but firmly lay hands on baby, saying, "It's OK... go to sleep... go night-night."
Another excerpt:

Quote:
Bedtime rituals are the salvation of tired parents. Babies, like adults, are creatures of habit. Before-bed rituals condition baby to recall a mental picture that when a certain activity begins (warm bath, wearing down, massage, story and cuddle), sleep is soon to follow. The older the child and the busier the daytime parents, the longer the bedtime procrastination. Children have a way of extracting from parents the very thing they have the least of -- time.
HOWEVER, all of that being said, I do think there are two weaknesses with the Sears':

1.) The Baby Book is for BABIES, and doesn't necessarily apply for toddlers.

2.) They didn't start being AP parents until they'd had a few children. The children that were AP'ed had older siblings to join in bed, and examples for bedtimes.

This has particularly bothered me in terms of transitioning my dd into her own bed, and sleeping by herself. Of course it would be easier to transition her into sleeping WITH an older sibling, and how nice if that older sibling already had a bedtime routine and would go to sleep easily. There is nothing that puts a child to sleep better than laying down next to a sleeping human.

Meanwhile -- this thread seems to have morphed from "no advice, please, just sympathy!" to "so what do we do?" I have advice if wanted, but want to check on that first.
post #66 of 138
Thanks, Breathe, for your neat "summing-up" here. I want to add to your list of Sears complaints - the one spot I got stuck on was the idea that if you teach your baby lots of different ways to go to sleep, it will eventually happen quickly and easily. This definitely did not work for us. We started a routine with ds about a week ago (just before your first post - lol!) for naps and bedtime, and it is starting to work beautifully. He still wakes often, but the initial entering sleep stage is getting easier. I think it might be easier for me to teach him to resettle himself if I night-wean him (he's 20 mos old on Fri), so that may be our next hurdle... and I KNOW it's going to involve crying. Ugh. I'm just trying to wait until all of his eye teeth are in - they are really bugging the poor guy.

So thanks, everyone, for your stories - isn't it nice to know we're not in this alone?!
post #67 of 138
sozobe - we were typing at the same time. I'd love to hear more advice from folks.

Thanks, too, for going back to The Baby Book. I think you're right - it is tricky to make the same things work for toddlers, and it would be much easier to transition ds if he had an older sib to model nightime patterns. Thanks for your insights.
post #68 of 138
Thread Starter 
sozobe, ds is awake now so I have to hurry, but wanted to say, YES! Advice is more than welcome at this point! Thanks for asking -- you're a great listener!

I'll be back tonite after bedtime -- look forward to responding and hearing more!
post #69 of 138
Our gentle routine has been called military by some family members, mostly when I am taking Dd off to sleep in the midst of some exciting event. It's not easy, but it's easier than dealing with the night time agitation, poor sleep quality, and next-day grumpiness that follow a late night. Since I'm the one who has to see her go through that, and face it, it's not fun to witness either, I am the one most motivated to get up and go at the right time.

Those who get to play with Dd the night before the morning after, but not have to care for her the next day, may complain as they wish. I have regretted curtailing activites, but the reward of a pleasant next day is worth it.

And even Dh has called me military, when I insist that we will NOT get up for a third drink of water (two are allowed). Dd may let out a howl of displeasure (this is a great excuse to get out of bed and look out the exciting kitchen window), but once she's stated her complaint, she settles down (don't let me jinx this, please). Dh has fortunately stopped picking her up and taking her out at each request (she got him to go 10 times once, he finally gave up). It wasn't a problem for him because he'd go to his office and do paperwork, and I'd be up with sleepfighting Dd after that). So again, I'm the one who is there, so it's easier for me to stick to my own rules, which evolved because they work without going against the AP spirit, IMHO.


On the Weissbluth book: terrible advice, but lots of interesting information about sleep. Worth reading, with many large grains of salt.
post #70 of 138
Great thread
I read Weisbluth's book and took away from it the message that YES Sleep is terribly important for children. I read Pantley and got the message...Even I CAN do it, too. So, I've started to make changes.
I posted a thread a week or so ago called "I'm letting him CIO" about my 2.5 y.o. and found support there. So, yes, I needed to make changes for all of us. It got to the point that I wanted to go back to work in the fall rather than be a SAHM b/c I couldn't deal w/naps and sleep issues. Both kids are perfect at daycare b/c they have a routine and expectations.

Today is the first day that I have been awake and both of my kids have been asleep at the same time. My toddler now understands that at naptime, he gets a couple of stories, a kiss and a nightnight closed door. He fell asleep w/in a couple of minutes. Baby (7 mos) was asleep literally in under a minute after I left him in bed. And, yes, I'm using Pantley's advice to leave while he's still drowsy.

OMG I like staying home w/my kids now!

yeah, interesting about the Sears and their book. It was my "bible," too and caused my incredible angst b/c my kids wouldn't peacefully drift off like they were supposed to.

Edited to add:
EllasMama YOu are 100% on target. How much love can I give when I feel like the walking dead and have 0 patience/tolerance?!?

PS: OUr nighttime routine has drastically improved since I started setting the nightnight timer. It's the one we use for cooking so he's very comfortable with it. I set it for 10 mins and he turns it on. We say, "when the nightnight timer goes beepbeepbeep, then it's time for night night." I even hear him repeat this to himself as he plays. It beeps, he turns it off and on go the jammies-no arguing.
post #71 of 138
"One other thought: It seems to me that for AP parents, CRYING is to be avoided at all costs (it has been in my house) -- not that we don't let ds feel his sad or angry or hurt feelings, but extended crying jags related to sleep have been avoided like the plague! But you know, people who nightwean experience some crying, and happily report that their children are not adversely affected -- and I believe them that their children's trust has not been violated -- so why it is that we couldn't have a little crying as we try to learn to fall asleep?

I know, I know, there's a fine line that none of us want to cross, but I guess I'm wondering if we all aren't so afraid of the crying that we haven't really given our babes a *chance* to learn to fall asleep. (flames may fly for that one!)"

Breathe - I was really confused when DS was around 18 months and nothing was working. I was deathly afraid to let ds cry even a little bit thinking that the AP police were definitely going to crash in and take me away.

I read "The Aware Baby" and also "Tears and Tantrums" (I think that is the title) by Aletha Solter. In these books she talks about how cathartic it is to cry and that since babies, toddlers and children don't know how to communicate their stress, the *need* to cry. They also need to be able to cry in a safe environment with loving arms around them.

Once I grasped that concept, I realized that ds (and now dd) sometimes just needs to get it out before they can sleep. It is really hard to hear your baby cry, but if you can accept it as just stress relief, it is amazing how quicly they get over it and then go to sleep or whatever.

I agree with you, The Sears Book (and this board at times) seems to lead you to believe that if you just BF, Family Bed, Baby wear that all will be well. It hasn't turned out that way completely, but still I would rather be here then over on the mainstream street.

Keep up your routine....life with children is one long weaning process, we do it slowing with love.
post #72 of 138
Thanks for the go-ahead, Breathe! Deborah Tannen (a linguist) has a thing about rapport-talk vs. report-talk, and I hate it when one is mistaken for the other!

Rapport-talk:

Person A: "It's so hard to keep an eye on my dd at the beach!"
Person B: "I know, they scoot around so fast and there are so many people!"

Report-talk:

Person A: "It's so hard to keep an eye on my dd at the beach!"
Person B: "Well, maybe you should try to dress her in a really brightly-colored swimsuit."

SO! Here are some things I've gathered from my experience. I'm gonna phrase them in terms of what worked for us, rather than universal truths -- I'm a firm believer in temperments, that all children are different in large and small ways, and "methods" can only do so much.

- As has already been noted here, exercise is huge. Dd always sleeps better on days in which she has had plenty of exercise.

- We have a routine that is not too strict, but has general categories. I have found this to be more workable than having something too regimented -- gives us more wiggle room while not "ruining" the routine. For example, we always read somewhere between 2 and 8 regular books, depending on how late it is, in our spot in the big bedroom, then pick out one more book and one "sleepy book" (we have about 10) and bring that to dd's room to read before going to sleep. When it's finished, kiss, I love you, good night, lights out.

- Once lights are out, that's it. If she's sick, we might turn the lights on, but that's all. (We make sure she's full and had enough to drink -- next one.) Probably the central concept from Sears that we have used is to be "dry as toast". After lights out, I'll hug her, I'll rub her back, I'll nurse (more in the past than now), but lights just won't go back on. And I just realized that the significance is not obvious -- I'm deaf, so if the lights are off, no (verbal) communication.

- Bedtime snack. Sears again has a bunch of info on the best bedtime snacks. I usually give her some sort of dairy -- yogurt with fruit in it is a biggie. I make sure she has had enough to eat and enough to drink.

- To skip around a bit, it helped to keep our bedtime routine at a reasonable length. At one point new things were being added on roughly once a week, and I had to put some effort into paring it back down to the essentials. It defeated the purpose if the routine itself took two hours.

- I have really studied my dd's sleep cycles, and know when she is likely to wake up and what the implications are. For naps, she's currently on cycles of about 55 minutes. She needs to have two cycles right now (for the last 5 months or so) or she's WAY grumpy. She can occasionally have 3, but that's the limit on naps... never more than that or she won't sleep that night. However, I need to recognize that once she falls asleep she'll be asleep for about an hour and 50 minutes, and that she will be way grumpy if that's messed with. (Main thing with the cycles is to make sure to be quiet quiet quiet 55 minutes after she falls asleep, so she wakes up but then goes right back to sleep rather than waking up all the way.)

- She has been giving up some naps, and THAT'S OK. She tends to go two days on, two days off -- two days with naps, two days without. When she doesn't nap, she goes to bed earlier.

- When for whatever reason I need to wake her up before she is ready, I transition her using a video. : It is the only thing that seems to work reliably for waking her up without extreme grumpiness

- I use this sort of technique to mold her sleep schedule. If she fell asleep much too late, I wake her up before her two cycles, because otherwise she will never get to sleep that night. She is definitely grumpier than usual, but the video helps. I do all I can to avoid that. Like

- I usually set a time every day by which she has to fall asleep. If she's not asleep by then, I drive her around (which usually works.) If she doesn't fall asleep then, I bring her back in for some quiet nursing time, and count the quiet time as a pseudo-nap. Then I start working on keeping her awake until an earlier-than-usual bedtime. If that absolutely doesn't work, and she falls asleep later than planned but much too early to go to sleep overnight, I do the above.

- My overwhelming focus is on how many hours of sleep she gets in a 24 hour period, not when she goes to bed and when she wakes up.

- This is a big one for me, but I already brought it up and I think it's impractical for a lot of people -- to really separate out bedtime, as going to sleep, and bedtime, as being isolated from the fun everyone else is having. I had a huge power struggle with my parents for as far back as I remember about going to bed before I was tired. I am inherently a night-owl (which should probably be another bullet point, but this thing has been on my screen all blessed day and I need to finish it and get to bed!! ), and my parents wanted time to themselves, and so made me go to bed, turn out the lights, etc. I well remember sitting there and stewing and listening to them (I became deaf later in life) and being FURIOUS. It made me HATE bedtime, myself.

When all of us go to bed at the same time (in 5 mins! hubby's handling bedtime routine), that whole aspect is removed, and it has seemed to be a good thing with my dd. She likes bedtime, tells us she's tired and it's time to go to bed, and there aren't any power struggles. There are enough power struggles in toddlerhood, and nice to not have that one.

OK, book done! (Not really, but, bedtime!! Could there be a more appropriate reason for having to skedaddle? ) Hope there are some ideas that are somewhat useful in there!
post #73 of 138
Breathe~
I am so glad you started this thread. SO many good ideas have come up here (such brilliant women here at MDC!) and I've ben reminded of many things I should never have lost sight of
It just gets so hard for me to keep up the routine sometimes, maybe in part because it takes so much energy and I get worn out and relax too much. Also we underwent a change in routine when we turned the clocks forward because ds does not have "tweaking the spare" priveledges when the sun is down and when suddenly he was to go to sleep before the sun was down, he wanted to tweak alseep and it took us a while to come up with a good compromise. (Finally I decided to let tweak to sleep and then not again through the night. UNLESS the sun goes down before he is asleep, then he says goodnight to the spare and hands off.) We also got thrown off by beginning 2 half days at preschool which pushed nap back. He sleeps best at night when he naps from 12-3, but we don't get home 'til 1 on school days. I still haven't sorted this out and am not putting a ton of energy there because my teaching schedule will change in the fall and that will affect nap times as well.
BUT, two nights in a row, he was asleep by 8:45pm!
post #74 of 138
Breathe--I also shudder at the thought of change and structure in our lives, but it WILL happen whether I like it or not, when I go back to work fulltime in the fall.

I cannot teach all day with a foggy, sleep-deprived mind. Heck, my part-time teaching and my mothering both suffer from this as it is. Also, DS will be forced to get up at specific time each day, and he will have a structured routine at daycare.

I will go out on a limb (and slightly off-topic) here and say that my mothering overall may improve when I go back to work. My day is focused around getting DS to sleep so that I have some teaching prep time. Before that we run errands and after that I try to get more prep done/a little cooking/ laundry. DS looks forward to DH coming home bc all they do in the evening is play. I hardly have time anymore, although I try to do a few fun things with him during the week. I look forward to having some evening time with my family though...(sigh).
post #75 of 138
Yeah, we have a pretty good routine and I agree that there is some wisdom in the Weisbluth book evenif he is a barbarian. But that book is responsible for so much of my mother guilt that I hate it anyway. Because there is no way that DD sleeps as much as his avarage kid. She sleeps from 9-9:30 till 7 or 8 and an hour nap during the day.

I do work and nearly fulltime, so DD does have a stricter routine than some, but she does like it. It really helps her predict what will happen to her next. I notice that when we deviate from it too much and too often she gets crabby and has more tantrums than ever. DH is having the hardest time with sticking with the routine and the limits though. He really likes to be free and easy and I personally like some routine to my day. ANyway at daycare they always nap after lunch and reading a book and singing a song so we do the same at home because I need for her to be into the routine at daycare too. If I get her up earlier though she will sleep a little longer for a nap and still not go to bed earlier.

Anyway, that said I think our problem is that we are too relaxed in the evenings. After dinner we just sit around and last night I decided to take DD out for a walk. She didn't go to sleep any earlier but she was more relaxed while we were going through the routine. I think we need to keep doing that. Get some exersize after dinner and her especially, and then go though the routine.
post #76 of 138
I haven't had time to read all of the posts, but I just want to sympathize.

Goo (barely a toddler) is just starting a new nighttime routine and she's doing MUCH better. It used to be screams and cries.

I am SURE this will come back when she's older.

Just remember, they will sleep when they are 15...they will sleep WAY TOO MUCH when they are 15!
post #77 of 138
Right there with ya, mama.
post #78 of 138

Where'd everyone go?

Please come back and complain. Oops, I mean please come back and play.
I started getting cocky and then we went on vacation. 10 days in. 5 more to go. I am in pure absolute unmitigated bedtime H*LL! My 2 y.o. puts up a pretty good fight at bedtime. He's outraged that the fun has to stop and will milk that 2nd wind until his eyes are red.
My 8 mos old is a total night feeder b/c it is just too darn fascinating to eat during the day. He eats all blessed night long. I feel like I did back in college when I'd stay up all night long drinking coffee and cramming for finals.

Hello? Anyone else out there in misery? Please don't tell me I have the only dysfunctional family anymore.:
post #79 of 138
Oh, I had the worst night tonight BusyMommy. We had a bad day together in general and well, night time was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

My ds doesn't care that we lay there "dry as toast" in the dark. He just keeps doing things that prevent him from falling asleep. For example, if he starts dozing off, he will startle himself and start drumming on his belly to make sure he doesn't go down.

He must be going through some kind of phase too, because the last several days he just whines and cries from the time he opens his eyes in the morning until he's finally asleep in the evening. Today all that whining was just more than what I could handle and I just burst out crying in bed trying to put him down.

ah, tomorrow will be a new day.....

post #80 of 138
Talk about dysfunctional...ds is 19 months old and it takes about an hour and a half of tossing and turning in bed ( i am usually trying to protect myself while he trashes around) before he finally goes to sleep. And this is after spending about 45 min on the "routine" before that...bath every other day, snack, books and brushing teeth. So i usually lose about 2 and a half hours every night trying to get him to sleep and IT SUX! I just feel like this routine thing doesn't work no matter how hard we try - we've gone through a few different kinds and it never makes things easier. We have weaned to just morning nursing which has helped - before he would just nurse and nurse and nurse and not fall asleep and I would get soooo frustrated lying there.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands and wake him up at 7:30am even though he went to bed at 10:30pm. Well, lo and behold, he must have read my mind coz he woke up at 6:50am! So there I was thinking, tonight's going to be different....well, it still took that long to get him to bed, it just brought things forward an hour - so he fell asleep at 9:30.

I need to confess though that I laid in bed tonight at 8pm feeling totally relaxed and convinced that it was going to be easier tonight. By the time 9pm came about I left the room as I was getting too frustrated - of course ds came running after me crying. So I said to him - you need to go to sleep otherwise mommy will go bye-bye. We went back to bed and he was still climbing about me and the bed frame so finally i got so upset that i yelled at him....yes, i know that is the worst thing one can do..but then i admit i sometimes get to the point when i feel like it needs to come out of me and it actually works in getting ds attention and ds really does lay his head down and goes to sleep in less than 5 minutes after the "GO TO SLEEP!!!!"

I need someone to emphatise with me...I am trying really hard not to yell but does anyone out there experience the same as me...does anyone actually see results when they yell? or am i just shortcircuiting something in ds brain when i do that?
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