Alittle confused? "Options" given at a hospital birth

[SuperMoM2GTO]

I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...


So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

[notjustmamie]

Originally Posted by SuperMoM2GTO

So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

Well, the short answer is "Yes, you can decline anything you want" but in reality it's a little more complicated than that.

In some cases, hospital personnel threaten (or actually do) call CPS if you try to refuse certain treatments. I have heard of some cases where a judge has actually removed custody of a newborn from his or her parents when they've tried to decline some standard procedures.

Other times, hospitals and care providers simply say, "We do xyz procedure it this way" and don't open the discussion to other options. Many moms never know that xyz procedure may not have to be done at all or that they could request it be delayed or completed in a different manner.

Another thing that many hcps don't discuss ahead of time is that laboring moms are often very susceptible to the suggestions of others. If labor is taking a long time (for example) and you are feeling tired, your OB may say "You've been at this a long time, let's do a c/s." Most moms are not in a place mentally or emotionally to ask questions or fight such a statement at that point, especially if they trust their doctor to do only what is best for the mom and baby.

Just some other scenarios to consider.

Amy

[hubris]

Another thing to consider: some women are really compliant during labor/birth. I'm one of those women. I really wanted to stand/squat to give birth to my second child. I was standing and laboring effectively (from my point of view) next to the bed and starting to push uncoached when my water broke. Suddenly everybody was breaking down the bed, trying to get me into the bed (in the lithotomy position), wanting a fetal monitor on me. None of it was what I really wanted, but I went along with it. Laborland is like that for me. Yeah, I could have said NO, but I didn't. My DH even tried to tell them I didn't want to do it that way, and I told him it was ok and shushed him! The staff wasn't forcing anything on me, they were just doing things they way they're used to doing them, and from their point of view, I willingly went along with it.

Labor makes me a less assertive person. Yeah, I had options, and could have fought for them, but I didn't because I wasn't capable of doing so in that moment.

[ThreeBeans]

It is very difficult to argue with a determined nurse/doctor when you are in the middle of transition, unfortunately.

[Jenlaana]

You can ABSOLUTELY decline anything. If they choose to fight you on it, YOU are in the right, NOT them. They have no right to force any proceedures on you OR your baby. You can definitely have an empowered birth where YOU make the choices, and not them.

Unfortunately as PPs said, it might be a battle. I would not expect a judge to take away your rights (thats a very very extreme case) but I would expect anything ranging from a discussion w/ the nurses/doctors to a downright hostile experience. Its worth it though, IMO to get the birth that you want.

[bryonyvaughn]

Originally Posted by SuperMoM2GTO

...So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

IF the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home TELLS you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

During vag exams medicos have aggressively stripped membranes without women's foreknowledge or consent. I had a midwife *accidentally* rupture my membranes during my first dilation check. That same midwife spiked my tea with both blue & black cohosh without my knowledge of permission. In hospitals just like in bars, for women's safety, they should only drink things they've seen opened or watched prepared from beginning to end. (It's corollary is why why heplocks are safer than IVs.) If the drink leaves their sight they should get another new one instead of drinking from the old. Women have had pitocin added to their IVs without their knowledge or consent. I know one woman whose midwife, without informing her first let alone getting consent, manually and forcibly dilated her from 8cm to 10cm to attach the vacuum extractor to her baby's head because she "cared for her so much (she) didn't want to see her in any more pain." Many attendants perform episiotomies, cut cords, suction babies, perform cord traction and even manually remove placentas without women's knowledge or consent. There are a lot of birth attendants out there who have great reputations and high standing in their communities and still behave monstrously.

While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV

[Therese's Mommy]

Sometimes in the heat of things the drs start laying on the "you are putting your baby's life at risk". Now I was pretty educated (but certainly not the most educated) first time mother and they got me with that one. I had been in the hospital for 48 hrs and was very resistant to the pit they wanted to give me. I was even talking about checking myself out AMA, then the dr came in and gave me that speech. What was I to do? He does have more formal education than me. So I caved. Thank God the induction didn't hurt dd and she came out fine. This time I am with a different practice and I trust them alot more. Plus, my labor support person is the wife of an MD and has had 10 births 8 of which were hospital births (other 2 were birth center). So, I have tried to put things in place so that this won't happen to me again.

So, in my case it isn't as if they held me down and did something against my will, but I do feel that I was bullied.

Beth

[velcromom]

Most hospitals don't offer options, they come into your room and tell you what they are going to do (if you are lucky, they at least warn you) but they don't ASK your permission, they assume by your presence there that you are going to let them do whatever they want. In my experience in hospitals both during childbirth and for various family member's surgeries, it's more like, "We are going to do XYZ now", or "It's time for XYZ now". I've never once heard a nurse or doctor ask the patient if they wanted the procedure.

[Ygle]

Originally Posted by SuperMoM2GTO

I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it.

I'd be curious to know what sort of choices those were? This is the reason we opted for a homebirth this time because we weren't able to make the choices we wanted and when talking to the obs during this pregnancy we were trying to find out just how much say and control we had... went round and round on various issues and scenarios and it just came down to the only *real* choice we had was whether we wanted to walk through the hospital doors or not. Some things just are really not an option at the hospital here... like absolutely no food if you are in labor, you have to have an IV if your water broke already... some things it just depends whose there on how tough a battle you might have (there were a few things I was not given a choice on where I know some others with a different staff were able to choose differently... this was one of the things I discussed with the OBs about requesting a different nurse, even that's not always an option).

[MyBoysBlue]

With my first birth i didn't question anything and just went along with all the procedures that they did. Fortunately there wasn't anything done that was against my beliefs at the time. I did refuse an episiotomy. My Doc just said he was going to "cut because I was getting a little tight." Uh Yah I'm pushing out a baby. I just said no I prefer to rip and he didn't cut. But they way he said it was a statement not a question. If I didn't know I could say "no" I would have ended up cut. If I was to do it again I would have refuse a few more things now that I know differently.

With my second birth I refused alot of the routine testing during pregnancy and by 38 weeks when I refuse to agree to antibiotics during labour my doc told me to find another doctor as I obviously didn't trust his abilities.

Luckily I wasn't planning on using him anyway as I was planning on a UC.

[SuperMoM2GTO]

Wow this all is really enlightening to me :


I guess in a sence I can relate some of it but I didnt feel pushed into it at the time. This time around I am not planning on hospital care, I was just wondering other's experiences.

Thanks all!

[Annie37]

This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!! :

[SuperMoM2GTO]

When I was in labor with my son, they encouraged me to drink as much water as I wanted. No food, though (except jello :Puke)

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by SuperMoM2GTO

I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...


So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

Sure but you really aren't in the position to stop it if they do something. I said I didn't want an episiotomy. The DR was going to cut me anyway and the L&D nurse stopped her. I wouldn't have known it was happening until it was too late. It wasn't like she said, "Hey can I cut you right now?" she was just going to do it.

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by Annie37

This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!! :

I attended a birth with a friend in January and her hospital fed her the entire time. The one I was at in Febuary they didn't feed her. My own I didn't want to eat my labor was short and intense. I demanded food before my doctor left the room though.

[Quindin]

Originally Posted by Annie37

This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!! :

I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly. The max. I was allowed to have was a bit of red juice for the sugar kick, but that was it! I really doubt any hospital in US allows food. My last labour was the only one I had after eating well (I ordered ribs and fries) and it was AMAZING how wonderfully I was able to cope! I highly recommend it to anyone! My midwife at the birth center just said: "you don't send a farmer to the fields after ice chips!

ETA - On my hospital birth in the US, they lied, threatened and scared me in order to get me to do everything they wanted. It was amazing at how low they would go to get me to comply. Just one of the reasons why I am praying I will never put my feet in a hospital to give birth again!

[_betsy_]

I said no to lots of things during my hospital birth. Or at least delayed the things I wanted delayed - like the routine newborn screenings which they wanted to take baby for and I had them done while she was on my chest or after about 15 minutes.

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by bryonyvaughn

IF the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home TELLS you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

Yes. I went in wanting a natural birth with my first but was naive in thinking wanting it was enough. I had not planned for the deception and the outright lies I got from medical staff. Thinking that they had my best interest at heart, I followed the ridiculous "do not eat" rule throughout my labor. I was given pitocin without my knowledge and an internal fetal monitor was placed without my knowledge and who knows what else was done that I couldn't decipher in my medical records. Finally, the "dead baby" card was played and I submitted to a csection. After reviewing my medical records it was clear it was extremely unneccessary, both mom and baby were perfectly healthy.

Originally Posted by bryonyvaughn

While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV

Yes! You don't have to have a poor birth experience yourself to recognize how bad it can get. A heads up would have been much appreciated in my case.

[Kitten]

I really doubt any hospital in US allows food.

Did you mean US or UK? I had no problem getting whatever I wanted to eat, whenever I wanted to eat it, at my hospital labor. I even ordered a full meal during labor and got it. (However, by the time it arrived I was too far in active labor to feel like actually eating a meal. But I could have had I wanted to. And I had unlimited snacks and drinks whenever I wanted.)

That said, I am still having a homebirth this time. Being at the hospital stinks no matter how nice the hospital is. It's still a hospital.

[courtenay_e]

Yes, some hospitals do encourage eating, but they are few and far between...in our area, anyway. We do run the entire spectrum, though, of hospitals who will allow any food at any time to hospitals who will only "allow" IV fluids.

The thing is, as pp's have mentioned, for the most part, you have every right to demand or refuse whatever procedures you want...but you may have a very hard fight in your hands. And, frankly, it's not necessarily a fight that you'll be able/prepared to fight when you're in active labor. One choice would be to NOT place yourself in the hospital. Another choice would be to find the hospital with the lowest intervention rates and the DOCTOR with the lowest intervention rates (ask the homebirth community in your area which doctor backs up the midwives in your area and you might just find your best option)...and then get a doula.

And the fight would most often be because they don't know what else to do BUT the procedure that they were set to practice on you. Because it is so routine...on top of the fact that, it being protocol means that if they DON'T do whatever it is, the staff will be facing censure for not doing what THEY are told. They're not necessarily being jerks...they are just not used to educated women who want ANYTHING other than what they usually do. I actually had one nurse look at a couple I was attending and say, "Well, we can't just sit around and do NOTHING!!" to which the father replied, "Why? Is there something wrong with the baby? Are my wife's stats going bad?" the nurse answered, very uncomfortably, "Well, no, everything is fine...but we're just not used to doing NOTHING!" I thought that that was extremely telling!