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Alittle confused? "Options" given at a hospital birth - Page 2

post #21 of 63
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So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?
You can refuse anything -- including an emergency C-section unless they go get a court order to protect the unborn child.

In reality -- it depends on WHAT you are refuseing and WHY they find it necessary and WHO you are delaing with.

I refused eye goop, all hosptial vax, circ, and so on.....for teh circ i wrote refused on the concent form, for the others i had to sign a form noteing we were refusing.

I have a freind who refused an eperdural and had a forcept delievery without any medication or other intervention......

BUT how much grief you catch -- depends on the hosptial and the providers, i know people who have been railed about refuseing the new born bath and eye stuff.......no one blinked an eye at us, just gave us the form to sign (had it with them too, didn't even have to go get it).

Most of the stuff depends on the hsoptial -- for example mine and my older sister's both encouraged eating as long as you feel you can -- real food. mine has a food room, witha buffett 3 times a day, and food all the time. DH can eat sas much as he wantes and bring me as much as i want. mom went and got me food, doula went and got me food, nurses offered to bring me food. drinks too. i think there is a change taking place and this is becoming more common. Sis had full meals deleivered to her room during active labor..... The one we were born at and little sister birthed at did not, but when i took her food they said nothing.......some i hear discourage it. and even at the same hosptial a lot if going to depend on your provider and how she or he likes to do things and how supportive of your choices she or he is.

many of us have to be in a hospital ..... it is a question of getting a good provider and a good hosptial..........and advocating for changes in the system as possible.

Quote:
went round and round on various issues and scenarios and it just came down to the only *real* choice we had was whether we wanted to walk through the hospital doors or not.
I NEVER felt that way. am sad you did. I knew that short of hemmeraqgeing and going unconsious or being litteraly in a life or dealth immedate situation our CNM would let us choose everything and consult us on everything ........I feel the same way about our OB. Our Ob is MORE hands off and always telling me "I am an advisor, you have to choose for your family" heck our CNM was more pushy. . ............... what both of our prividers did was talk to us, at appt -- early -- about what interventions we were and weren't ok with, what they considered an emeregency and what we considered an emergency and we agreed up front that in what setting would we jsut let go and let them "take over" in both cases it has been only when time is of such an factor they have to ... and actually our OB is a lot less jumpy than the CNM about whatis "high risk" and what is not. ..................... our OB knows what we what and don't want and they are things he too is committed to. but we all know we want to walk out of there with a health baby, so if i start to bleed out, or my heart stops or anything "totally unlikely, but still withint he realmes of possible" happens.. the OB knows to do whatever he has to to save us both.............short of that i am confident the is going to incude us in the decisions. and Frankly -- in the few cases like that -- THAT is why we have him He told me "don't worry there are so very few situations where we won't have time to talk. and that is why we are talking now"

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In my experience in hospitals both during childbirth and for various family member's surgeries, it's more like, "We are going to do XYZ now", or "It's time for XYZ now". I've never once heard a nurse or doctor ask the patient if they wanted the procedure.
it was ALWAYS presnted to DH and I as "let's talk abotu YVF now" or "given **** woudl you like to consider VVVVV. Here is why I/we think it would be a good thing to think abotu....we'll give you time to talk about it..." or "have you thought about YGH can I give you some information, or answer any wuestions". this was true even when i had pushed for over 3 hours, the baby was stuck and MY BP and oxgyn level were being effected "we would like to talk about bringing in an OB to see about maybe helping with forcepts or a vacumee" "I think it is getitng close tot he time that you are going to need some kind of help before we get in a situation wehre your health is in danger".......... I had ONE intervention i didn't want, but my doula actually told me she agreed, and so did DH and my mom ... and it was a case of doing one little thing now so as not to have to do more later, and i agrred to the logic of that, and i did get my extra hour to keep trying naturally, so while i agrred finally, i was not forced or pushed into it.

again, and again, and again, it is the provider you choose and the hosptial you choose. Locally i have heard horror stories about the local birth center and the CNM that runs it that hates douals ....... it is all int eh provider and location you choose,

and remember you can ALWAY request a differnt nurse, or a 4th differnt nurse

there is good and bad in every situation or choice..........

Aimee
post #22 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by courtenay_e View Post
..."Why? Is there something wrong with the baby? Are my wife's stats going bad?" the nurse answered, very uncomfortably, "Well, no, everything is fine...but we're just not used to doing NOTHING!"
: I just LOVE it when people tell more truth than they ever intended.
... especially when it confirms what I *knew* to be true all along.

~BV
post #23 of 63
I don't know that anyone *made* me do anything during my son's birth, but they sure tried.

I was in (induced) labor for 37 hours, and I was fed twice, both in the first 6 hours. After that, if my BF hadn't gone and picked up take-out, both DH and I would have been starving.

They repeatedly tried to "convince" me to get an epidural. I wound up on morphine because I couldn't handle the pain, but there was no way I was going to voluntarily let anyone paralyze me. About an hour or two before he was born, when the contractions were 45 seconds long, 2 minutes apart, one of the doctors came in and tried to brow-beat me into getting the epidural again. I was at a point where I couldn't speak, the contractions were coming so hard and fast. Both DH and BF literally had to argue with her to get her to leave me alone because she refused to take no for an answer. That was the last doctor we saw until almost 8 hours after he was born... they obviously didn't appreciate being told off.

By the time we left, DH vowed that he would never fight me on HB again.
post #24 of 63
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Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
Did you mean US or UK?
The USA

The hospitals in Europe are for the most part more easy going than in the states.
post #25 of 63
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Originally Posted by SuperMoM2GTO View Post
I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...


So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?
During my two hospital pregnancies and births in Michigan I was told that If I refused tests I could no longer see my OB, or they would call CPS. I was told both things at various times. When I discussed not wanting some tests with Midwives who attend homebirths in some cases I was told that they don't attend patients unless they have the tests because they don't feel comfortable doing so (not because of legal requirements). There are also some tests that are required by law in some states.

Not everybody has real options in pregnancy in birth if they want to have a healthcare provider involved with their pregnancy or birth.

Kiley
post #26 of 63
[QUOTE=Jenlaana;8348223]You can ABSOLUTELY decline anything. If they choose to fight you on it, YOU are in the right, NOT them. They have no right to force any proceedures on you OR your baby. You can definitely have an empowered birth where YOU make the choices, and not them.

QUOTE]

You might be right, but your baby could still be in foster care wearing disposable diapers with a stomach full of formula. Sometimes you have to be canny and avoid people who will cause that kind of trouble for you.

Kiley
post #27 of 63
Quote:
During my two hospital pregnancies and births in Michigan I was told that If I refused tests I could no longer see my OB, or they would call CPS. I was told both things at various times. When I discussed not wanting some tests with Midwives who attend homebirths in some cases I was told that they don't attend patients unless they have the tests because they don't feel comfortable doing so (not because of legal requirements). There are also some tests that are required by law in some states.
Not the whole state.

My sister has birthed twice in MI -- outside Detroit. she has refused most testing, worked with a great CNm, birthed in a birth center connected to a hospital, and refused all new born "stuff".......with out grief or trouble. She has had two nonmedical, natural births in more or less a hotial (it is in a hosptial, jsut a differnt wing, connected tot he OB wing)..............

so ....... it depends.

and in all my years of foster care -- and all my firends in CSP -- i have never head any of that, save here on MDC. and i never took care of a child taken from a family for a natural birth plan or refusal of interventions. ......... really i have never encountred that in IRL -- either as happneing, or the fear of it happneing tOTHER THAN ON mdc...........
post #28 of 63
Quote:
and in all my years of foster care -- and all my firends in CSP -- i have never head any of that, save here on MDC. and i never took care of a child taken from a family for a natural birth plan or refusal of interventions. ......... really i have never encountred that in IRL -- either as happneing, or the fear of it happneing tOTHER THAN ON mdc...........
Are you suggesting that people here are lying about their experiences? I hope not. : I've seen newspaper stories about women losing babies to foster care, or being threatened about losing babies to foster care so I know this is true, that CPS can and does cause problems for people who refuse mainstream medical care. I don't have time to look for links but if you go to thecowgoddess.com Hathor has run stories about this. I'm sure other people here can point you in the right direction as well.

I suspect you see it more here on MDC because on every other board I have ever been to, no one ever questions doctors since in Mainstream America OBs are gods.
post #29 of 63
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Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
Are you suggesting that people here are lying about their experiences? I hope not. :
I read it as it being very few and far between, that someone in that field does not ever hear about it. Thats my experience as well, although UCs are a whole different story. I know more than one mom in RL that had issues with being investigated, but again, UC is not a very common method of birth these days, so finding someone who UC'd locally is tough, let alone finding the 10% (or whatever the number is) that had to deal with CPS.

As for no hospital in the US allowing food... a lot of it has to do with the doctors and midwives that you are using as well. Not to mention the hospital itself. A hospital that deals with a lot of high risk pregnancies is going to have a lot more of a control issue, because they're used to dealing with being in control of things. It seems really backwards to me, but the hospital I finally found where I could have a "good" birth if I wanted it, with all the hands off that I require, is a low risk hospital out in the middle of nowhere, and the hospitals that really SUCKED were the ones in higher populated areas.

I have toured 3 hospitals during my last pregnancy and am going to a CNM that delivers at a 4th hospital, and 2 of the 4 said absolutely no food or drink whatsoever. The third (from last pregnancy) said that it was up to my doctor (as was the last word on all interventions/comforts - i.e. they had no problem with food if the OB didn't, had no problem with a birth ball if the OB didnt, etc) Needless to say, the OB I had who delivered at that hospital didnt think I even deserved a trial of labor, let alone any comfort measures. For the 4th hospital, I have not toured yet, but I did speak at great length to my midwife. She has been very up front and told me that I am free to decline any intervention I choose, that she encourages eating and movement and changing positions, and would have no problem with skipping the IV until/unless it was necessary. She said that going into the hospital, they would want me to do "standard proceedure stuff" and that it would probably be a bit of a pain, but that she would be there and as long as she was in agreement with us, they would not give us much trouble. (she even wants to give me her pager so that I can give her a heads up before we head up that way, so she can be in attendence)
post #30 of 63
I am following this thread with great intereste as I am considering a hospital birth this time around....

Quote:
My sister has birthed twice in MI -- outside Detroit. she has refused most testing, worked with a great CNm, birthed in a birth center connected to a hospital, and refused all new born "stuff".......with out grief or trouble. She has had two nonmedical, natural births in more or less a hotial (it is in a hosptial, jsut a differnt wing, connected tot he OB wing)..............
She must have been at the place I had my DD! I was FANTASTIC and I would go there again in a second if I was still in MI. I even had a waterbirth there even though I really wasn't *supposed* to LOL! My mw and the nurses were FANSTASTI, I was eating a loaded baked potato while sitting in the tub. I pushed when I was ready, no one made me get out of the tub and they never took my little girl out of my or DH's hands the whole time.

Boy how I wish I was living there now...it would make this birth decision so much easier....
post #31 of 63
I said no episiotomy and the doctor didn't do one.

But he did reach into me and stretch me as far as he could for several minutes during the delivery.

This left little tears all over me inside and out that were excruciating for weeks. I believe by his personality (during our prenatals and the delivery) and the look on his face when I asked for no episiotomy, he did this maliciously.

During the prenatals I made it clear I didn't like his charm and personality because he wasn't supportive and was just giving me a stand-up comedy routine or playing music on my reflexes (he would hit my knees to his tune and my legs would jump). So I think he made it clear in delivery how much he despised me in return.
post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
I've seen newspaper stories about women losing babies to foster care, or being threatened about losing babies to foster care so I know this is true, that CPS can and does cause problems for people who refuse mainstream medical care.
When my last son was born in the hospital almost 6 years ago, there was something that had happened that we'd been warned about. Something that was reliable enough that really freaked out my husband, so when they stole our baby against our wishes and kept him crying under a warmer in the nursery, my husband (who is a battle axe about things) was convinced he had no choice. We have NO reason to fear CPS ever, and yet he was worried they would call if he stole his baby back.

CPS does get called sometimes. I just WISH I could now remember what had happened to spook us so badly.
post #33 of 63
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I even ordered a full meal during labor and got it. (However, by the time it arrived I was too far in active labor to feel like actually eating a meal
That was no accident. They took their time bringing it to you.

I think if you want something special during labor you should stay home. A hospital is an institution and is run by the inmates, I mean, the nurses and doctors who run it for their own convenience, not yours.

Quote:
During the prenatals I made it clear I didn't like his charm and personality because he wasn't supportive and was just giving me a stand-up comedy routine or playing music on my reflexes (he would hit my knees to his tune and my legs would jump). So I think he made it clear ...
I think you were forwarned with this one. He is not the only "standup act" in town I am sure. You could have changed doctors. You give birth only once to this child and most women only have one or two children in our society. Why put up with a jerk like this? He got paid for it also, I am sure. That is almost like a sexual attack. So rude.
post #34 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom3b1? View Post

Not everybody has real options in pregnancy in birth if they want to have a healthcare provider involved with their pregnancy or birth.

Kiley

I am really starting to understand this :

Depending on what this "new" clinic Im seeing on Thursday says I may have to do UC. Not because I want to, but because I wont have any other choice. I just cant believe how powerless we (pregnant) are dealing with "modern medicine" I cant think of one other example (right now) where they can outright deny you treatment unless you "do it their way" : : :Puke
post #35 of 63
Thread Starter 
I want to clarify my posts.

When I gave birth to my son, it was in a hospital in Washington state. I was definitely not as "green" as I am now but I never felt pressured into anything. Maybe if I thought then how I do now my experience would have been different

Here on the East Coast I am finding things alot different as far as how they handle/treat pregnacy. Even my own regular doctor (whom I have a very good relationship with) told me it would be very hard if not impossible finding a medical care person that would see me, let alone help me birth this child, without internal exams done. He also told me I would likey face refusal of services if I denied the Rho-gam :
post #36 of 63
I think part of it is the assumption that all pregnant women are crazy. I hate to say that, but thats how I was treated with my first. I was very beligerent (I even shoved my tray and as a result my food went flying across the room) and was very hard to deal with. Instead of backing down and being "nice" to me, they forced me through the whole ordeal at their pace. At the time I was 18, scared to death and facing not only the first surgery of my life, but the first time EVER in a hospital (never went even to visit a sick person prior) I was treated like a crazy stupid girl, and as a result just thought in retrospect that I was a crazy stupid girl who was not meant to have any children. It took almost 10 years for me to realize that wasnt the case and brave having another child.
post #37 of 63
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That was no accident. They took their time bringing it to you.
Actually, not true. I ordered lunch while in labor as well. It arrived on time and I ate it. I ordered supper at the usual ordering time and it arrived on time as well. My labor just picked up tremendously in the interim.

We were also actively encouraged to keep getting food and drinks from the snack room on the floor as well, for as long as I actually felt like eating. They had, let me see if I can remember, chocolate chip cookies, milk, bagels, sandwiches, ice cream, fruit, among other food. The CNM who attended my labor said as long as I felt like eating, I should keep eating as much food as I wanted to keep up my energy.

That said, we will still have a homebirth for our next. First of all, the insurance we have now will only cover the other hospital in town that does births, and that hospital absolutely stinks. Secondly, even if the insurance covered the same hospital as the first time, I'd still choose homebirth. As nice as *some* hospitals *can* be they still don't compare with being at home.
post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenlaana View Post
...Instead of backing down and being "nice" to me, they forced me through the whole ordeal at their pace. At the time I was 18, scared to death and facing not only the first surgery of my life, but the first time EVER in a hospital (never went even to visit a sick person prior) I was treated like a crazy stupid girl, and as a result just thought in retrospect that I was a crazy stupid girl who was not meant to have any children. It took almost 10 years for me to realize that wasnt the case and brave having another child.
I'm sorry, Jenlaana.

It's all too common for L&D nurses to behave abusively to teen moms. It's as if they are punishing a disobedient teenager for breaking their personal moral code. It's unprofessional, boundary disrespecting, toxic relationship stuff and all too common.

~BV
post #39 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryonyvaughn View Post
IF the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home TELLS you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

During vag exams medicos have aggressively stripped membranes without women's foreknowledge or consent. I had a midwife *accidentally* rupture my membranes during my first dilation check. That same midwife spiked my tea with both blue & black cohosh without my knowledge of permission. In hospitals just like in bars, for women's safety, they should only drink things they've seen opened or watched prepared from beginning to end. (It's corollary is why why heplocks are safer than IVs.) If the drink leaves their sight they should get another new one instead of drinking from the old. Women have had pitocin added to their IVs without their knowledge or consent. I know one woman whose midwife, without informing her first let alone getting consent, manually and forcibly dilated her from 8cm to 10cm to attach the vacuum extractor to her baby's head because she "cared for her so much (she) didn't want to see her in any more pain." Many attendants perform episiotomies, cut cords, suction babies, perform cord traction and even manually remove placentas without women's knowledge or consent. There are a lot of birth attendants out there who have great reputations and high standing in their communities and still behave monstrously.

While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV
Exactly, I was subjected to much treatment like this. I was in lala land, saying "no wait what did you just do..." in a very weak voice, through alot of it... I am a strong person but was just so emotionally vulnerable... and hearing constant loud YOUR BABY COULD BE AT RISK IF YOU DONT COMPLY is a very threatening way to "force" someone into co-operation...


i had an IV threaded into my hand even though I didn't want it, I don't recall how that happened exactly, I just remember saying I wanted to drink water & if they had to they could put it in later... don't remember why she did it anyways, but I did contemplate taking it out (wish I had).

because that IV was in, they were able to administer nubain (narcotic) pretty much against my will, I said NO i dont want pain relievers, they said but your baby is in distress because you cant relax, so here you go it'll just take the edge off. but it made me fall asleep between contractions, and very nauseous, & drugged & groggy, i felt sick & couldn't wait for it to wear off.

also the DR ruptured my water bag without asking or telling me, i wouldve been happy to deliver him with it intact but he did it anyways, next thing you know he announced that there was meconium stool in the waters, i was angry because i "knew" it already & i also knew he burst my bag without asking, it was almost like a rape because he said he was just going to check me but there was an amnio hook in his hand when i looked down to see.

they insisted on fetal monitor, because my baby was "distressed" for whatever reason they determined. also had to keep a blood pressure cuff on me, the nurse kept putting it back on even though i wuold rip it off & throw It telling her i did not need it. she put it on like she was mad at me almost.

I didnt want the vagina exams, because they were hurting, to check my cervix. i said the lube burned & the nurse said it was nonsense i couldn't be feeling any pain from that, but it BURNED!!! i felt it!! they kept using it every 30 min to check me, & every time i felt like i closed up inside from the pain.

they pushed pitocin on me when my son was out, i had no intentions of EVER taking pitocin but since that IV was there they just went ahead & hooked it up. my son had just come out so i wasnt really paying attention to the nurse hooking up a bag or whatever, next thing you know

the doctor was pulling on the umbilical cord, my son hadnt been out more then 10 minutes, the doc pulled my cord & finally the placenta, i said no what are you doing dont do that it hurts what if it tears, i was in a panic, he said dont worry you have pitocin to help close you up or something to that effect, is when i realized i had the pitocin going into me without my permission.

he said he would stitch me up (very small tear), after he was done he told my partner, she only needed 3 but i put in 4 and he looked proud, my partner said why did you put 4 if she only needed 3, he said its called the husbands knot, if you know what i mean.

it was frustrating because it hurt to have sex afterwards it was too small there, he made it smaller & it looks uneven, he did cosmetic surgery (i consider it such) without even telling me till it was over.


and so forth.


alot of stuff, it just happens so fast (oh the cord, that was clamped & whacked so fast my head was reeling).

plus i delivered on thanksgiving, my "midwife" yeah right she wasnt on call so a MALE OBSTETRICIAN delivered my baby. i felt so let down & violated, like i couldnt fight for myself. i was even doing like one woman telling my partner just SHH, hold my hand & then i would close my eyes b/c i couldnt stop it, they talk over me louder then me & just do stuff without asking.



this is why i will not go to the hospital again, it was very hard time for me & they did NOT do as i asked or made me do things i would not have done if i was not in labor.
post #40 of 63
I'm curious-what did you refuse? Did you say "Well, I'm hungry so I'm going to eat something but thanks for your concern." How do you think they'd have reacted? Did you turn down any medical procedures offered and if so which ones? I think when labor goes smoothly and relatively quickly, it often seems like the hospital is great. But if there's a variation that takes you off the average, sometimes things go downhill quickly.
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